Using the word "traffic" at the end of approach and landing call outs

I hear the Administrator is having N1 outfitted with some spinners, and has decreed that all FAASTeam events have Gangster’s Paradise playing as folks arrive. ;)
 
[FoamingMouthRant]
I hate it when people use their N-number in the pattern. So much talky, no one can see it, no one cares. What airport are you talking to, What kind of aircraft are you in, Where are you/what is your plan, What airport are you talking to.
Oh and one more thing, don't use local landmarks, I don't know where "Trash Mountain" is in relation to the airport.
And another thing, you can ask Carl on the lawnmower about his dog's hip surgery when you land, I need to let Carl know that I'm short final and it would be great if he could stay off the runway for a minute.
God, I hate uncontrolled airports.
[/rant]
 
gasfiltered said:
Oh and one more thing, don't use local landmarks, I don't know where "Trash Mountain" is in relation to the airport.
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I see your point, but to those who are local to the area (and that includes about 95 percent of the folks who land at my home drome, Cable), the local landmarks are very useful in nailing down a more precise position.

When I'm over "Montclair Plaza," I'll also say that I'm entering the 45 to the pattern, so even out-of-towners know where I'm at.

If I'm going somewhere unfamiliar, I'll study the charts and take note of some of the major landmarks.
 
All communications follow the following pattern:

Who you are talking to
Who you are
What you want (or what you’re doing)
Which station you are listening on

The last part is left off most times because It’s unnecessary. But, using RCOs it is still needed and when broadcasting on Unicom or Multicom it is needed.

So, given that, the final part is the name of the airport’s frequency you are tuned to, not the audience. Therefore, “traffic” is both unnecessary and correct.

When I make radio calls, for example, I will often use the name of the city or area in the first part and the official name of the airport at the end:

Sidnaw traffic, Cherokee 123, 10 miles west, inbound. Pricket Grooms.

Edgewood Traffic, Cherokee 123, 10 miles west, inbound, Sandia Estates.

Green River traffic, blah blah, Greater Green River Intergalactic Spaceport.

But I only do that when the airport is much different from the area and the area is more recognizable. I am based at Meadowlake airport, but don’t usually call out “Peyton traffic” because I suspect that would be more confusing than “Meadowlake traffic”
 
"Pig Path traffic, Pig Path traffic, Skychicken 1234 with you on the downwind leg, any traffic in the pattern just kick it back to the Possum, the boys in the hangar have the PBR's on ice and I'm going drop this timed out, plastic crackin', paint pealing Skychicken on 25.....Pig Path traffic.....WHOOO!!!"

Ooops. I forgot to say "left downwind"

I am grounded today with a bad cold......so POA is providing some good entertainment. I started flying in the late 70's when CB radios were popular and CB lingo began to bleed into radio communication. It really didn't matter much since we didn't wear headsets and couldn't hear very well. It got so bad that AOPA had big push to get folks to talk the correct way.
 
Palmpilot said:
Maybe you should petition the FCC to change the regulations that require it.
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Do those regs require the N-number be used for *every* transmission and require that no additional clarifying description (e.g. color) be given? How does does someplace like Oshkosh meet those regs while passing directives with descriptions in lieu of N-numbers?

Nauga,
who isn't standing on the regs so much as being dragged down by them
 
Do those regs require the N-number be used for *every* transmission and require that no additional clarifying description (e.g. color) be given?
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As I stated, there are no explicit requirements to ID airborne stations.

How Oshkosh does it is the FCC says the FAA can use alternate identifications. Scroll back and read the reg I posted.
 
flyingron said:
As I stated, there are no explicit requirements to ID airborne stations.
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Agreed.
flyingron said:
How Oshkosh does it is the FCC says the FAA can use alternate identifications. Scroll back and read the reg I posted.
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Scroll back and read the definition of aircraft station and see if you think that applies to someone on the ground.

It's not my intention to discuss how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. My intent is to point out that there are cases where type and color can be more informative and helpful than reg number. They don't have to be mutually exclusive and smarter people than me have figured out that type and color works for big gaggles where quickly spotting and identifying is critical.

Nauga,
popeye
 
How many times have you heard someone state the position of the airport instead of their aircraft, “Cessna 5 miles east....which a minute later becomes Cessna on 3 mile final for runway 9” Wow those Cessnas are fast.
 
teejayevans said:
How many times have you heard someone state the position of the airport instead of their aircraft, “Cessna 5 miles east....which a minute later becomes Cessna on 3 mile final for runway 9” Wow those Cessnas are fast.
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Been there, done that. (Not often, fortunately.)
 
Suppose that my plane is a Diamond DA-20.

How do you want to hear me identify it?

Just tail number?

DA-20?

Diamond DA-20?

Two seat trainer?

Two seat trainer, low wing?

Something else?
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Diamond 123AB
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Thanks very much, Greg. That could include anything from a DA-20 to a DA-62. Are you cool with that, given the premise of an uncontrolled airport?
 
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Greg Bockelman said:
Yeah, I am because I don't know Diamonds. It could be any model and I wouldn't know the difference.
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The fact that they aren’t well known in many places is of course why I asked the question, and the question is practical rather than hypothetical :)

Anyone else have a view?
 
I've got about 70 hours in a DA-20, flying out of John Wayne with my instructor. We used "Katana."
 
nauga said:
Do those regs require the N-number be used for *every* transmission...
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The way I read it, the reg that Ron quoted earlier instructs us to identify ourselves, but it apparently does not specify how often. It also lists some alternatives to using the N-number, although those alternatives do not appear applicable to most GA aircraft.

...and require that no additional clarifying description (e.g. color) be given?
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I know of no prohibition on providing additional information.

How does does someplace like Oshkosh meet those regs while passing directives with descriptions in lieu of N-numbers?
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I don't know.

...who isn't standing on the regs so much as being dragged down by them
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I don't stand on them in the sense of insisting that they be followed, but when the other poster expressed his dislike of hearing N-numbers, the fact that both the AIM and FCC regs advocate their use would appear to be an obstacle to persuading others not to transmit them.
 
Palmpilot said:
The way I read it, the reg that Ron quoted earlier instructs us to identify ourselves, but it apparently does not specify how often.
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Logically speaking, how would we know it's the same aircraft on subsequent transmissions if it's not identified each time?
 
I care little about plane type, color,tail #. All I care about is your position and intentions, at risk of being criticized my method is:
First call 10 miles out and which runway if landing. This gives someone else a chance to say if they’re using a different runway.
“Mooney 10 miles south landing 32”
2nd call 7-8 miles out, position and type of entry and runway number, ie “ Mooney 10 miles south will enter right downwind 32”.
3-5 miles ditto
1-2 miles drop the “will enter” substitute “now entering”
....
Plenty of calls to track my progress, at more than 2 miles you’re looking for a spec on the horizon anyway. I usually only call the turns, makes it easier to see me and location is more precise, as oppose to “Cessna on left downwind”. There can only be one Cessna on a turning left base, so identity not important.
and no I don’t use traffic at end.
And don’t use unicom if they contact me: “Mooney landing county how long you staying”...my response “3 days”... I don’t use airport id, I keep it short.
 
Can't say I've ever heard a Citation call himself "Cessna."
 
One of the things locals do is frustrating and dangerous. You should always use the proper name of the airport. Down here you'll be flying into Gillespie County Airport, but a lot of locals call it Fredericksburg. The guy from out of town may not know you're at the same airport as him.
 
teejayevans said:
I care little about plane type, color,tail #.
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I care a great deal about your plane type, it tells me something about your speed and capabilities. It's nice to know that I'm following a 152 vs a Mooney.

Otherwise, it's a pilot controlled airport. You're going to get variation. The alternative is to have the FAA come down with a hammer and require pilots to use precise phraseology like they do with controllers. I'm not in favor of that, communications is what we do last because it's the least important. Remember, they don't have to say anything, you should be happy to get something.
 
Lowflynjack said:
One of the things locals do is frustrating and dangerous. You should always use the proper name of the airport. Down here you'll be flying into Gillespie County Airport, but a lot of locals call it Fredericksburg. The guy from out of town may not know you're at the same airport as him.
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I would normally agree with that, except there are times when saying the proper name out loud is absurd. All of the examples I am thinking of are in Montana but I am sure there are others out there. Here is one:

In the A/FD, KGGW is named "Wokal Fld/Glasgow Intl." I vote that it's okay to say "Glasgow traffic" instead of "Wokal Field Glasgow International traffic."
 
At DXR everything is "over the lake" and "over the prison." (Or High School, or mall)
As in: "Danbury tower, Cessna 69 Foxtrot Uniform is 10 miles, over the lake at, 2,000 feet, inbound for 26 with information Yankee."
"69 Foxtrot Uniform, call 4 mile right base over the prison."

Since those are all very identifiable landmarks, it doesn't bother me.
Sometimes I have an issue with calls like this one, which actually happened to me this summer:
"Yellow Cub, could you turn crosswind before you get to the house on Turnip Road where the lady is complaining about the airplanes flying over?"

Sure. No problem. If I knew where Turnip Rd was, and which house it was.
 
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iamtheari said:
I would normally agree with that, except there are times when saying the proper name out loud is absurd. All of the examples I am thinking of are in Montana but I am sure there are others out there. Here is one:

In the A/FD, KGGW is named "Wokal Fld/Glasgow Intl." I vote that it's okay to say "Glasgow traffic" instead of "Wokal Field Glasgow International traffic."
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I agree. As long as Glasgow is in the name it's okay. In the example I gave, Fredericksburg is nowhere in the name of the airport.
 
Okay...insert beating a dead horse --->HERE<---- // now an important question...If a defrasticator gets nebulized in the middle of using it for a conpitulated astophysic, how do you reconcile the phlegiston count after the valve closes?
 
FlySince9 said:
Okay...insert beating a dead horse --->HERE<---- // now an important question...If a defrasticator gets nebulized in the middle of using it for a conpitulated astophysic, how do you reconcile the phlegiston count after the valve closes?
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