Using A Manual E6B

Do you fly with a manual E6B?

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Ah, so you used pilotage to verify your position. So noted. Try flying 6 of those segments without verifying your position and get back to me. 1/2 mile is outside my tolerance to be considered success. But hey, some of us love mediocrity.
 
EdFred said:
Ah, so you used pilotage to verify your position. So noted. Try flying 6 of those segments without verifying your position and get back to me. 1/2 mile is outside my tolerance to be considered success. But hey, some of us love mediocrity.
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You're flying VFR. What the hell do you need better than 1/2 mile for? I know what you think of engineers, but we have a rather important saying that you REALLY should think about -- never let the perfect be the enemy of the good enough. You have made an incorrect conclusion from requiring more precision than your VFR flight actually needs. You should be flying in 3 miles visibility, so 1/2 mile at your destination is entirely adequate. No one said you should be flying instrument approaches by DR.

No, I used a visual sighting to verify the target, after arrival. There was no intermediate guidance. I was demonstrating a SEARCH. What else would you have me do? Jeez dude.
 
If I'm flying VFR, WTH are my eyes not outside?

You do know I was an engineer in a previous job right? Of course you didn't.
 
EdFred said:
Ah, so you used pilotage to verify your position. So noted. Try flying 6 of those segments without verifying your position and get back to me. 1/2 mile is outside my tolerance to be considered success. But hey, some of us love mediocrity.
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Prime example of arguing for the sake of arguing, with a trolling dash of personal insult.

So noted.
 
FastEddieB said:
Prime example of arguing for the sake of arguing, with a trolling dash of personal insult.

So noted.
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1/2 mile error over 20 minutes = almost 10 miles of error over the range of my tanks. And that doesn't even take into account the mag variation, necessary heading changes, etc. That is not a success, nor is it acceptable. You see insults, I see facts. IF you think that's acceptable, you accept mediocrity.

"close enough" didn't get us to the moon.
 
EdFred said:
1/2 mile error over 20 minutes = almost 10 miles of error over the range of my tanks. That is not a success, nor is it acceptable. You see insults, I see facts.
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Bullpoop.

You claim to be an engineer. What is the expected resulting error from 20 random half-mile errors? Hint: it's not 10 miles.
 
I never said there was 20 errors. If you were off 1/2 mile over 20 minutes - meaning you weren't exactly precise (for whatever reason) and you are flying a leg of 6-1/2 hours vs 20 minutes. Your half mile extrapolates to 1/2 * 3 * 6.5 = 9.75.

Of and course 20 separate segments doesn't end up in 10 miles of error. Just like buying 4 scratch off tickets where you have a 1:4 chance of winning doesn't guarantee a win.
 
EdFred said:
1/2 mile error over 20 minutes = almost 10 miles of error over the range of my tanks. And that doesn't even take into account the mag variation, necessary heading changes, etc. That is not a success, nor is it acceptable. You see insults, I see facts. IF you think that's acceptable, you accept mediocrity.

"close enough" didn't get us to the moon.
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When I did this for east-west flights across multiple sectionals, I adjusted for magnetic variation near each of those angled purple lines. Or maybe you forgot what they are for . . . Perhaps too much ipad use? ;)
 
Hank S said:
When I did this for east-west flights across multiple sectionals, I adjusted for magnetic variation near each of those angled purple lines. Or maybe you forgot what they are for . . . Perhaps too much ipad use? ;)
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I don't own an iAnything or any Android devices - so definitely not the case.
 
EdFred said:
I never said there was 20 errors. If you were off 1/2 mile over 20 minutes - meaning you weren't exactly precise (for whatever reason) and you are flying a leg of 6-1/2 hours vs 20 minutes. Your half mile extrapolates to 1/2 * 3 * 6.5 = 9.75.

Of and course 20 separate segments doesn't end up in 10 miles of error. Just like buying 4 scratch off tickets where you have a 1:4 chance of winning doesn't guarantee a win.
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Elementary engineering error. You assumed I made a constant heading error. That's not how it works.

You also assumed that DR either works or it doesn't. That it may or may not be adequate for the longest possible flight you could make says absolutely nothing about its use for shorter flights. Though honestly, 10 miles over 6+ hours is really not bad, and if you can't find your way from a 10 mile error, you need some practice. Your multiplication trick is EXACTLY equivalent to 19.5 segments with the exact same 1/2 mile error. So, you disproved your own assertion. Unless you want to argue that 19.5 and 20 are far apart.

Do I really need to remind you that Lindy did it for a 35+ hour trip across the Atlantic with widely spaced corrections with a sextant? It's obviously not impossible.
 
I use a combination of GPS, pilotage, TLAR, Mk IV Eyeball and celestial navigation. :) I'm glass panel, which renders the circular slide rule pretty much obsolete.

My yellowing E6B? I'm gonna drill out the little rivet in the center and use it as a drink coaster for the coffee table in my hangar.
 
i calculate TAS all the time on every flight, simple process, look at corner of the EFIS where is say TAS all done......

bob
 
unsafervguy said:
i calculate TAS all the time on every flight, simple process, look at corner of the EFIS where is say TAS all done......

bob
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So do I. I just look at my AI and add 2% per 1000' msl that I'm flying at the time. Simple mental arithmetic. And pretty close, too.
 
The point is that in other than some degenerate cases (like due north or south or along the equator) any straight course has continually varying heading.
 
flyingron said:
The point is that in other than some degenerate cases (like due north or south or along the equator) any straight course has continually varying heading.
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And correcting every half hour or so is plenty often enough.
 
I keep a mini version (just the circular part, not the rectangular wind correction part) in the airplane for nostalgia and nothing else at this point. With a fuel totalizer and GPS showing TRK, DTK and XTK, I haven't found a need to pull it out for years. I still do some checks and balances in my head, but the ground speed is always close enough to 150, 180, or 210kts (2.5, 3, or 3.5nm per minute) that the mental calculation is close enough to what the GPS is saying such that the E6-B is now gathering dust.

There was ONE flight 5 years ago where I was /U for 600nm in IMC where I used it heavily (my pax was a flying enthusiast and he was loving it, too). That was the last time it saw any real action.
 
I had a DR leg on my first solo XC. The CYS VOR was OTS and there's no landmarks of note along most of the route (nothing but dirt as far as the eye could see). I convinced my instructor I could DR it because eventually I'd cross a river and a road/rr tracks perpendicular to my course and then if I had guessed too far off I just had to fly along those to find my destination. I computed the winds on my first leg, came up with a heading for the second (DR) leg, and showed up right where I wanted.

I haven't done that much more WhizWheel work other than working on my instrument written.
 
Excellent blog. Although there are alternatives and some DPEs allow use of an EFB, I know that many others don't. A guide for those student pilots on the use of the E6B is very useful!
 
flyingron said:
I had a DR leg on my first solo XC. The CYS VOR was OTS and there's no landmarks of note along most of the route (nothing but dirt as far as the eye could see). I convinced my instructor I could DR it because eventually I'd cross a river and a road/rr tracks perpendicular to my course and then if I had guessed too far off I just had to fly along those to find my destination. I computed the winds on my first leg, came up with a heading for the second (DR) leg, and showed up right where I wanted.

I haven't done that much more WhizWheel work other than working on my instrument written.
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And a nearly guaranteed 50 knot wind straight out of the west at CYS... LOL!
 
Not anymore. Useful to learn as it helps students understand a lot of important fundamentals, but it's just a tool and it turns out that an iPad is a better tool for most purposes.
 
Victor Whiskey said:
Not anymore. Useful to learn as it helps students understand a lot of important fundamentals, but it's just a tool and it turns out that an iPad is a better tool for most purposes.
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Except they wont let you use the iPad on the written. I still have an ASA CX2 kicking around here that I bring for that.
 
When I need to use a calculator in flight (not all that often) I prefer the mechanical E6B. Why not an electronic one? Ever tried to use an electronic one with one hand in rough air? Not easy. If you already have the E6B set up for your speed all you need to do is look at it. One hand is fine. Oh, and there aren't any batteries to die, nor is there a display hybrid to die at an inopportune time. I carry (and use) paper charts for the same reason. Call me old fashioned, but I hate single points of failure.

Oh, and yes, I have an engineering degree. No PE, so I can't call myself an engineer (legally). But, you get the idea.
 
I'm probably doing it wrong.

I fill the tanks, point the airplane so TRK and DTK line up, and land before I have to pee in a bottle. Repeat for additional legs.

What calculations should I be doing?
 
Mistake Not... said:
I'm probably doing it wrong.

I fill the tanks, point the airplane so TRK and DTK line up, and land before I have to pee in a bottle. Repeat for additional legs.

What calculations should I be doing?
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How far out you need to start letting down for the straight-in. ;)
 
Granted I like using anachronistic crap for the sake of it, but why is anyone still using/teaching the E6b. We have much better tools available now. I don't see anyone still using sliderules in a calculus class.
 
I bought the electronic E6B calculator, and of course the paper E6B for my training. During the first cross country planning session I mostly used the calculator while my CFI used her E6B. By the second CC planning session I owned the metal E6B and left the electronic one at home.

One handed, no batteries, nothing to fail, and dead simple to use without digging into submenus, knowing what format to input data, etc. The manual E6B now sits in my flight bag for every flight, and I might be able to find the electronic one if I really needed a basic calculator at home one night.

For current students, save the money and just buy a manual one.
 
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