Update on Catalina Baron crash

[Barrett50]

New details emerge in deadly Catalina Island plane crash off the Southern California coast

A new report from federal officials has revealed what happened leading up to a plane crash on a Southern California island that killed all five people aboard took off in the dark despite not having clearance to do so. The twin-engine Beechcraft 95 crashed as it was attempting to take off...

www.yahoo.com

Brief; Not enough batt power to start the right engine. It was connected to a charger, and eventually got started. Where, who connected the plane to the charger? If the airport mgr did that, might be a problem. Even though he advised the airport was 'closed' but couldn't stop the pilot from taking off. I guess if the charger was hooked up before the runway closed, might be defensible. Once the runway was closing, if the engine didn't start by then, it was time to call it a day and go get rooms overnight.

 

[iamtheari]

It sounds like they started charging before dark but knew it would get dark before they had enough juice to start the engine. They should have charged all night and gotten rooms. Or, better yet, told the stranded folks to get rooms and come to get them in the morning if there were known issues with the plane they pressed into service for the rescue.

The article (which is not very well written, par for the course) doesn’t seem to indicate whether the left engine started or not. I don’t know the systems in that plane but I don’t know why you would build a twin with an alternator only on one engine or, if you had such a plane, why you would start the engine with an alternator last. So I have to assume that neither engine was started before dark.

I doubt that the electrical system was working perfectly the last few times the plane flew, including the flight out to Catalina that afternoon. It could be that the first sign of a problem was the battery not having enough charge to start the engine after they landed on Catalina, but the odds favor there being more to the story.

Was the plane they were going out to rescue from a breakdown owned by the same people? How was their overall maintenance program? Was the nighttime departure from a closed-at-night airport the only lapse or part of a pattern?

 

[Racerx]

This was the cfi that perished. Not sure it would be a pattern....but interesting nonetheless.

 

[Rgbeard]

Catalina isn’t a “friendly” airport to be stuck at. Getting a room in town is way easier said than done. And when it’s the weekend, we’re talking citywide sell-outs, and two-night minimums.

The bus down/back goes one direction every hour. When the bus is done, you’re pretty stuck. I understand not many would willingly spend the night sleeping in a perfectly good airplane just because the perfectly good runway “right there” is closed.

These type of difficulties will make even the most law-abiding citizen do things not normally done.

 

[Barrett50]

That ATC recording was sad. Sounds like a guy with an axe to grind. Do it on the phone, not the radio. Once the engine started, the low batt shouldn't have any affect or much affect on producing rated power. Just another hole in the cheese lined up.

 

[Bill]

This was the cfi that perished. Not sure it would be a pattern....but interesting nonetheless.

SMH

 

[MauleSkinner]

Catalina isn’t a “friendly” airport to be stuck at. Getting a room in town is way easier said than done. And when it’s the weekend, we’re talking citywide sell-outs, and two-night minimums.

The bus down/back goes one direction every hour. When the bus is done, you’re pretty stuck. I understand not many would willingly spend the night sleeping in a perfectly good airplane just because the perfectly good runway “right there” is closed.

These type of difficulties will make even the most law-abiding citizen do things not normally done.

Since the Baron pilot said he “had to” take off when he was told the airport would be closed, I doubt that any of that was a factor.

 

[iamtheari]

Catalina isn’t a “friendly” airport to be stuck at. Getting a room in town is way easier said than done. And when it’s the weekend, we’re talking citywide sell-outs, and two-night minimums.

The bus down/back goes one direction every hour. When the bus is done, you’re pretty stuck. I understand not many would willingly spend the night sleeping in a perfectly good airplane just because the perfectly good runway “right there” is closed.

These type of difficulties will make even the most law-abiding citizen do things not normally done.

Is there a couch at the FBO or anything of the sort? I’ve slept in a disused gate area in Atlanta, on the dirty carpet with loud, annoying music, because of an airliner diverting for weather and the next flight being just close enough to rule out going to a hotel and sleeping for 10 minutes in a bed. Uncomfortable sleep for one night beats CFIT every day.

Maybe Catalina has no buildings, gets down to -50 at night, and is infested with large, venomous snakes and angry polar bears. And maybe the stranded pilot was having a heart attack and the only medical services were by way of flying the Baron to the mainland. But short of such things, there’s always an alternative to taking off on a closed runway at night with a plane having electrical problems near its maximum gross weight (just guessing on that but it seems like a fair guess).

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

Is there any possibility whatsoever that a plane-load would try to take off with 1 engine? I know how ridiculous that sounds.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Is there any possibility whatsoever that a plane-load would try to take off with 1 engine? I know how ridiculous that sounds.

There’s always the possibility, but they wouldn’t have gotten airborne by the end of the runway.

 

[Hengelo]

I approach my flying decisions with a rubric I was taught at work long ago. Imagine yourself explaining how it went horribly wrong, "Well, your honor..." if the rest sounds stupid, don't do it.

 

[Zeldman]

if the rest sounds stupid, don't do it.

Now what fun is that.??

 

[MauleSkinner]

Now what fun is that.??

I wouldn’t have nearly the experience and good judgement I have now if I’d followed that advice.

 

[ldhilljr13]

What seems signficant to me is that the plane took off (with clear skies above, per the airport manager), from an airport elevation of 1,601 MSL, but then descended, and continued a descending right turn, with the landing gear still extended, until impacting terrain in a level attitude at about 1,230 MSL. Why the descent? Why the landing gear still extended? From the ADSB, it doesn't not seem like spatial disorientation (plane was in a level attitude when it struck) (although per the airport manager, not long afterwards he saw clouds about 200' below the airport elevation, so at 1,230 MSL they may have been IMC).

 

[mandm]

Nothing wrong with carrying a tent and battery pack, pitch a tent and watch some YouTube videos, read POA, before you know it the sun is rising and it’s time to pack up and be on your way.

 

[MauleSkinner]

What seems signficant to me is that the plane took off (with clear skies above, per the airport manager), from an airport elevation of 1,601 MSL, but then descended, and continued a descending right turn, with the landing gear still extended, until impacting terrain in a level attitude at about 1,230 MSL. Why the descent? Why the landing gear still extended? From the ADSB, it doesn't not seem like spatial disorientation (plane was in a level attitude when it struck) (although per the airport manager, not long afterwards he saw clouds about 200' below the airport elevation, so at 1,230 MSL they may have been IMC).

SD doesn’t require the airplane to go into an unusual attitude in less than 20 seconds. It could simply be not moving and staring at the instruments trying to make sense of them.

 

[Barrett50]

This is hard to describe, and without having been to the airport before, it's hard to believe as well. I offered speculation before and will again. I've taken off during the day, and at dusk from Catalina more than once. It is a crowned runway, and there is a very credible visual perception that the runway ends only 400-700 feet in front of you. With the landing lights on the plane shining in the immediate forefront, the false image is even more reinforced. It causes pilots, including me to lift off early in the TO run without sufficient climb speed.

In the case of a single pilot in a decently powered plane, the plane will typically climb in ground effect enough to speed through the back side of the power curve(reverse command). In a heavy loaded plane, on a hot day, I'm speculating that the pilot pulled it off green, just as he was viewing the visual 'end' of the runway approaching and flew in ground effect in reverse command region. No amount of back pressure on the control was going to make the plane go any faster, or climb. The plane remained in static flight, in ground effect without climb or speed increase right off the actual end of the runway, where it still failed to climb or increase speed, and now, the ground effect off the west end of the runway is gone, and there was insufficient lift to maintain altitude, and directional control.

I'm not conversant in the Baron, but I believe the right engine is always the critical one, thus leading to the mild turn to the right, descending into terrain.

The solution at Catalina is to 'fly the numbers'. If T/O rotate speed is XX knots do NOT rotate before XX speed is reached. It's quite unnerving to see the runway false 'end' approaching as the plane continues to travel and there is NO visible terrain to the west until the actual end of the runway passes under the plane rather abruptly. Adding to this, the T/O run to the west is a 2deg upslope, in addition to the crown. Thus, if there is any onshore breeze or wind, the plane tends to be seen as accelerating much slower than normal. Going uphill, into a light wind, short view runway the natural inclination is to pull back and get the MFer in the air - NOW.

I could be completely wrong, and some other more credible reason will be found. I think they already confirmed both engines operating at impact, but not sure if both were full power with props in T/O position.

 

[Hengelo]

True, fanciful or otherwise this seems very well reasoned and it’s going into my brain bank of cautionary tales.

This is hard to describe, and without having been to the airport before, it's hard to believe as well. I offered speculation before and will again. I've taken off during the day, and at dusk from Catalina more than once. It is a crowned runway, and there is a very credible visual perception that the runway ends only 400-700 feet in front of you. With the landing lights on the plane shining in the immediate forefront, the false image is even more reinforced. It causes pilots, including me to lift off early in the TO run without sufficient climb speed.

In the case of a single pilot in a decently powered plane, the plane will typically climb in ground effect enough to speed through the back side of the power curve(reverse command). In a heavy loaded plane, on a hot day, I'm speculating that the pilot pulled it off green, just as he was viewing the visual 'end' of the runway approaching and flew in ground effect in reverse command region. No amount of back pressure on the control was going to make the plane go any faster, or climb. The plane remained in static flight, in ground effect without climb or speed increase right off the actual end of the runway, where it still failed to climb or increase speed, and now, the ground effect off the west end of the runway is gone, and there was insufficient lift to maintain altitude, and directional control.

I'm not conversant in the Baron, but I believe the right engine is always the critical one, thus leading to the mild turn to the right, descending into terrain.

The solution at Catalina is to 'fly the numbers'. If T/O rotate speed is XX knots do NOT rotate before XX speed is reached. It's quite unnerving to see the runway false 'end' approaching as the plane continues to travel and there is NO visible terrain to the west until the actual end of the runway passes under the plane rather abruptly. Adding to this, the T/O run to the west is a 2deg upslope, in addition to the crown. Thus, if there is any onshore breeze or wind, the plane tends to be seen as accelerating much slower than normal. Going uphill, into a light wind, short view runway the natural inclination is to pull back and get the MFer in the air - NOW.

I could be completely wrong, and some other more credible reason will be found. I think they already confirmed both engines operating at impact, but not sure if both were full power with props in T/O position.

 

[geezer]

It has been a long timer since I was at Catalina Island, but my recollection is that there is no obstruction at either end of the runway to prevent continuing off the mountain, and into the air.

As described above, the terrain falls away, and you would be flying.........if you were above stall speed. If not, descending in a mushy stall.

 

[MauleSkinner]

I'm not conversant in the Baron, but I believe the right engine is always the critical one, thus leading to the mild turn to the right, descending into terrain.

I’m not sure I follow that logic, but the left engine is the critical engine.

 

[Barrett50]

It's one of the few runways where it's possible to take off and actually descend right off the end of runway. The other location I've been to like that is Los Alamos in NM. The runway ends at a bluff, and taking off to the east, there's often a quartering tailwind. On lift off from Los Alamos, pilots are requested to side step to the left(N) and fly down the canyon adjacent to the runway. The land falls away quite abruptly, and one is 1000' AGL very quickly. At Catalina, I've taken off and stayed right on the deck, then push over the end and fly down to the shore below, then follow it north around the island then climb up to cruising altitude. Not the safest thing in the world, but the views are just incredible.

At night, it would take super-human instinct to push the yoke forward to gain speed, but that may have been the only saving move.

 

[Barrett50]

I’m not sure I follow that logic, but the left engine is the critical engine.

Then it would be immaterial to what happened unless the engine or prop failed somehow.

 

[Rgbeard]

Is there a couch at the FBO or anything of the sort? I’ve slept in a disused gate area in Atlanta, on the dirty carpet with loud, annoying music, because of an airliner diverting for weather and the next flight being just close enough to rule out going to a hotel and sleeping for 10 minutes in a bed. Uncomfortable sleep for one night beats CFIT every day.

Maybe Catalina has no buildings, gets down to -50 at night, and is infested with large, venomous snakes and angry polar bears. And maybe the stranded pilot was having a heart attack and the only medical services were by way of flying the Baron to the mainland. But short of such things, there’s always an alternative to taking off on a closed runway at night with a plane having electrical problems near its maximum gross weight (just guessing on that but it seems like a fair guess).

Your instance that you cite, which I now know is hyperbole, assumes a pilot is choosing between an uncomfortable night and cfit.

I don’t believe many flights that become cfit we’re intended to be so at their beginning. This is a category reserved for suicide flights. I was trying to illustrate the difficulties a pilot might face in keeping his ADM solid when clear night skies and a hostile environment are present.

 

[iamtheari]

Your instance that you cite, which I now know is hyperbole, assumes a pilot is choosing between an uncomfortable night and cfit.

I don’t believe many flights that become cfit we’re intended to be so at their beginning. This is a category reserved for suicide flights. I was trying to illustrate the difficulties a pilot might face in keeping his ADM solid when clear night skies and a hostile environment are present.

I was agreeing with your point about the ADM temptations for this flight, but wondering what the decision really looks like on the ground. Is there a half-reasonable place to sleep at the FBO, or is the choice simply between sleeping on the tarmac and takeoff?

 

[Rgbeard]

I was agreeing with your point about the ADM temptations for this flight, but wondering what the decision really looks like on the ground. Is there a half-reasonable place to sleep at the FBO, or is the choice simply between sleeping on the tarmac and takeoff?

The “FBO” isn’t an entity.

There’s a restaurant/gift shop and a place to pay a landing fee.

 

[iamtheari]

The “FBO” isn’t an entity.

There’s a restaurant/gift shop and a place to pay a landing fee.

No couch or carpeted floor to sleep on? I have been to a handful of airports with a paved runway and truly no place to take shelter for the night, but it’s hard to imagine Catalina being that desolate.

 

[3393RP]

It's one of the few runways where it's possible to take off and actually descend right off the end of runway. The other location I've been to like that is Los Alamos in NM. The runway ends at a bluff, and taking off to the east, there's often a quartering tailwind. On lift off from Los Alamos, pilots are requested to side step to the left(N) and fly down the canyon adjacent to the runway. The land falls away quite abruptly, and one is 1000' AGL very quickly.

My first takeoff at Los Alamos was as a passenger in a loaded Twotter on a quite warm day. The pilot pushed up the throttles until the plane was shaking like a 25¢ vibrating bed in a cheap 70s motel, and when he released the brakes it seemed like acceleration was noticeably inadequate.

Of course we lifted off well before the end of the runway, but the experience was a bit unsettling.

 

[Barrett50]

My first takeoff at Los Alamos was as a passenger in a loaded Twotter on a quite warm day. The pilot pushed up the throttles until the plane was shaking like a 25¢ vibrating bed in a cheap 70s motel, and when he released the brakes it seemed like acceleration was noticeably inadequate.

Of course we lifted off well before the end of the runway, but the experience was a bit unsettling.

Say it was 80F. Density Alt = 10244. The FBO recommends no take offs after 12, or above 80F. With the downhill and a bit of tailwind KLAM can be rather exciting.

 

[Rgbeard]

I will allow someone else to come along and explain the situation to you.

No couch or carpeted floor to sleep on? I have been to a handful of airports with a paved runway and truly no place to take shelter for the night, but it’s hard to imagine Catalina being that desolate.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

ForeFlight shows no FBO for this location.

 

[woywoyboy]

No couch or carpeted floor to sleep on? I have been to a handful of airports with a paved runway and truly no place to take shelter for the night, but it’s hard to imagine Catalina being that desolate.

There is no FBO at Catalina. All the buildings there — a restaurant and a gift shop, plus a couple of private buildings owned by the Conservancy — are closed and locked after 1700. It's a rugged ten mile hike into town (nothing's flat on Catalina (and never mind the wildlife…)). There's an occasional van / bus service during the day; you can also sometimes — if you're lucky — conjure up a taxi during daylight hours, but don't bet on it. It is quite deliberately not a welcoming place for after-hours use.

 

[iamtheari]

Here’s what I’m struggling with…

I have never been at an airport so unfriendly that I couldn’t get help out of a bind. Courtesy car won’t start, some pilot lends his personal car. Hotel isn’t answering the phone to send the shuttle, some pilot offers a ride to the hotel. Things like that are the norm in my GA experience at airports that are unattended.

Here, the airport manager was friendly enough to charge their battery, even though everything on the field had been closed for an hour. Why not ask him for a ride, or some other assistance?

Maybe taking off at night from a closed runway in a plane with a questionable electrical system was their best chance of survival. If so, they put themselves in that situation by a series of bad decisions. But it remains hard to imagine a scenario in which the Swiss cheese all lined up prior to takeoff and they proceeded anyhow. Normally, the no-way-out scenarios arise because of conditions after the plane is already airborne.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Here’s what I’m struggling with…

I have never been at an airport so unfriendly that I couldn’t get help out of a bind. Courtesy car won’t start, some pilot lends his personal car. Hotel isn’t answering the phone to send the shuttle, some pilot offers a ride to the hotel. Things like that are the norm in my GA experience at airports that are unattended.

Here, the airport manager was friendly enough to charge their battery, even though everything on the field had been closed for an hour. Why not ask him for a ride, or some other assistance?

Maybe taking off at night from a closed runway in a plane with a questionable electrical system was their best chance of survival. If so, they put themselves in that situation by a series of bad decisions. But it remains hard to imagine a scenario in which the Swiss cheese all lined up prior to takeoff and they proceeded anyhow. Normally, the no-way-out scenarios arise because of conditions after the plane is already airborne.

See post #7.

 

[geezer]

Instructor flies to the island with a student. After landing they find a problem with the plane, call shoreside for help, presumably the common owner.

Owner hops in the Beech twin, with an instructor, and a student, and maybe some tools and expected parts to fix the first plane.

KEEPS THE REVENUE FLOWING FOR BOTH PLANES.

The tools and parts are not enough to fix the first plane, and the Beech has its own issues. The battery is charged for an extended time, hours, and it is running, so they abandon the first plane, all load into the Beech, and depart. Sorta.

The owner of the Beechcraft was an operator of a flying school, but went out of business. If the maintenance of the school planes was as poor as these two planes, that could have been the terminating cause for the school.

If both of these planes are indeed his, his bad judgement finally caught up with him, a relative who shares his last name, 2 student pilots, and an instructor with 5 years experience.

I seriously doubt that the owner would have paid for a cab to town, much less a place to sleep. The cost of a second flight out to actually repair the first plane was weighing on his thoughts and influencing his decisions. I wonder how many pounds of tools and parts were in the back of that Beech?

My sympathy is very much with the two student pilots, as well as the instructor, who may have made a bad choice to save his employment with the owner.

 

[woywoyboy]

Here’s what I’m struggling with…

I have never been at an airport so unfriendly that I couldn’t get help out of a bind. Courtesy car won’t start, some pilot lends his personal car. Hotel isn’t answering the phone to send the shuttle, some pilot offers a ride to the hotel. Things like that are the norm in my GA experience at airports that are unattended.

Here, the airport manager was friendly enough to charge their battery, even though everything on the field had been closed for an hour. Why not ask him for a ride, or some other assistance?

Maybe taking off at night from a closed runway in a plane with a questionable electrical system was their best chance of survival. If so, they put themselves in that situation by a series of bad decisions. But it remains hard to imagine a scenario in which the Swiss cheese all lined up prior to takeoff and they proceeded anyhow. Normally, the no-way-out scenarios arise because of conditions after the plane is already airborne.

Firstly, I'm not defending their decision making — I very much doubt I would have done what they did. I would probably have overnighted in the plane, because that's the kind of person I am. Secondly, as MauleSkinner and doubtless others have said, a lot of the factors I'm talking about here were possibly irrelevant to the boss's decision-making anyway.

What I (and a few others) are just trying to say is that Catalina isn't like other GA airports, so the decision-making might be different to what you're used to. It's a remote privately-owned airport on an isolated privately-owned resort island. To a first approximation, no one is based at the airport — there are no friendly local pilots to take you to town in their car. In fact, unless you are very very lucky, you won't have a car on the island — only a select few locals can have them (there's a twenty-five year waiting list). There are no car rental places on the island. Hotels don't have shuttles, because everyone arrives by boat, conveniently close to the hotels in Avalon. There's a small-scale taxi service, but good luck getting it to or from the airport after 1700. There's a van / bus service to and from the airport on (IIRC) an hourly basis, but it stops before 1700. Getting a hotel room anywhere in Avalon on short notice is (I'm understating here) difficult, and hideously expensive. The hotel will not bother sending a taxi or vehicle out to get you after hours.

So it's just down to the airport manager; maybe he could let them overnight in his office or something? I don't know, but Conservancy rules probably forbid that, as they probably forbid taking them to town in the Conservancy-owned vehicle.

 

[geezer]

It was a scorching hot Sunday summer afternoon. My instructor and I landed in a 4 passenger single engine Piper, and took the keys and TT numbers to the desk.

The manager on duty told my instructor there was one of the school planes with an engine problem, and needed a ride back to the home airport. The density altitude was too high to bring them back in the 4 seat single, would he fly the Piper twin to get them? Yes, my instructor picked up the twin keys, and went out.

Going out the door, he asked if I would like a free multi lesson? CERTAINLY.

Good lesson going out, but the flip side came up at the other airport. The other instructor was working on his Multi, so went to the left front, and the in cockpit portion of the preflight commenced.
W&B was calculated, good.
Runway needed STP was good.
Correction for density altitude, marginal.

My instructor told his 'student', you must not rotate until not less than 10K above single engine airspeed, and climb at plus 20.
If the engine falters in any way after we are in the air, you will do the following in exact order, while I do the following.

Airspeed will be controlled with the elevator.


Hindsight says that he should not have taken me, but I did get some very good multi engine training, Unforgettable.

There are some similarities with Catalina Island, but our twin was well maintained. I am pretty sure that if we had even just had a bad mag on one engine, I would have gotten out and hitch hiked home. My thumb has carried me many hundreds of miles.

Some accidents bring memories back to the old Geezer.

 

[Rgbeard]

Here’s what I’m struggling with…

I have never been at an airport so unfriendly that I couldn’t get help out of a bind. Courtesy car won’t start, some pilot lends his personal car. Hotel isn’t answering the phone to send the shuttle, some pilot offers a ride to the hotel. Things like that are the norm in my GA experience at airports that are unattended.

Here, the airport manager was friendly enough to charge their battery, even though everything on the field had been closed for an hour. Why not ask him for a ride, or some other assistance?

Maybe taking off at night from a closed runway in a plane with a questionable electrical system was their best chance of survival. If so, they put themselves in that situation by a series of bad decisions. But it remains hard to imagine a scenario in which the Swiss cheese all lined up prior to takeoff and they proceeded anyhow. Normally, the no-way-out scenarios arise because of conditions after the plane is already airborne.

I'm sorry you're having a struggle with this. I'm glad others came in to give you the scenario, as I'm sure you didn't understand the picture I was painting.

I hope you choose to align yourself with that things might not be as with normal airports. Catalina is far from normal.

Better yet, fly there yourself sometime. It's a gorgeous place, and great destination. (so long as you don't need gas or any services - at all.)

 

[Skip Miller]

a 25¢ vibrating bed in a cheap 70s motel,

Ah! The famous "Magic Fingers".

 

[MFE]

This was the cfi that perished. Not sure it would be a pattern....but interesting nonetheless.

I remember marveling at that jackass when the video was first released. Sure fills in a few more brush strokes on the painting.

 

[MountainDude]