Unsettled Feeling up High

LowanSlow

LowanSlow

Pre-Flight
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Missouri
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Midmoflyer
Just seeing what every one has to say about this. Im a Low time Pilot,, you know,, the kind known as the "Pile-It" on at the end of the runway. Any ways, at times when I fly up at altitudes over 7,000+, I will occasionally get an unsettled feeling that might last a minute or two and then wear away, cant quite explain it (kind of like the nervousness of falling out of the plane if I look straight down?). While listening to a few guys I know at a fly-in recently, One just happened to bring up the same topic and confessed that they occasionally have the same unsettled feeling (one also regularly flies in the low to mid teens also). I guess im just seeing if any of you all ever have the same unsettled feeling while up high or if im just easily "a-scared" of being high?:dunno:
 
Yup. Never quite understood it but I have similar issue.
Not as bad as early on but still get it
 
All depends if I have my hand on the stick or not. :D

More likely to happen to me in a very tall building than in a light airplane. Just a minor problem that goes away fairly quickly.

Cheers
 
This has come up before.

I think it's a point where you lose touch with the earth in an eyesight way. You can't make out houses or cars or minor features anymore, so your brain interprets that and goes into fight or flight mode.

It's the same shrinking feeling you get when you're out on the ocean way out and can't see land.
 
Apprehension is a side effect of Hypoxia. 7,000 ft is a bit low to experience this but we all react differently to increasing altitude.
 
I posted on this feeling about a year ago. There has been research on it, and there was some excellent posts in my thread which led me to finding what it was about.

Search back on my username for 'feeling of unease' or something like that and link that thread here. It's quite enlightening.
 
I think it all depends on what you're flying. Helicopter guys get uneasy flying high, I get an uneasy feeling flying below 5,000.
 
I get it a little bit sometimes but its more of a "what if the floor suddenly breaks open" fear of heights type thing.
 
X3 Skier said:
All depends if I have my hand on the stick or not. :D

More likely to happen to me in a very tall building than in a light airplane. Just a minor problem that goes away fairly quickly.

Cheers
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I had a psychiatrist for a student when I was instructing. He explained it to me as not a fear of heights, but a fear of falling.
 
Gucci Pilot said:
I think it all depends on what you're flying. Helicopter guys get uneasy flying high, I get an uneasy feeling flying below 5,000.
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I agree. However my wife starts getting twitchy after about 5k or so too so it makes for some interesting flights sometimes.
 
I've got no problem with being in a little ol' Cessna; but put me on a ladder, the edge of the Grand Canyon, or a hot air balloon and it's full on panic.
 
I've always gotten a thrill (fright) from hights. But it's never happened in an airplane. Once in my hang glider as I climbed through 10K ft. off a 500 ft launch, I was looking around at all the nuts/bolts/wires/etc. A couple of hours later, talking about it, I was told it's pretty common to want to review one's pre-flight when that far off the ground.
 
woodchucker said:
I've got no problem with being in a little ol' Cessna; but put me on a ladder, the edge of the Grand Canyon, or a hot air balloon and it's full on panic.
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Agree about ladders. A ladder more than a few steps high makes me nervous. Never been nervous about altitude while flying. I also was never particularly nervous when I used to skydive or when I rappelled out of helicopters at Air Assault school in the Army.
 
I like the idea of all the options one has when flying fairly high, 5000' AGL on up, but below hypoxia levels. Depending on where you are you could almost glide home, or target that 2 mile long wheat field or airport.

Just don't break any part of the flight controls and you will be fine. You also get away from the local traffic and most of our avian friends. You have winds to consider but it's often a bit smoother away from the thermals.

I consider where I am. It's not nice to plug up a busy arrival corridor into busy class 'B' airspace. If I felt the need to do that I would talk to ATC.
 
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Youse guys need to some up to SkyDive Dallas and let me 'fix' that anxiety of heights issue you have. Nothing like dangling your feet out the door from 13,500...and then falling out!
 
I am in the "Unsettled below 5,000'-with birds, helicopters, fpv drones, rc aircraft, less glide, less radar coverage, less radio range group".
 
Depends on the plane for me... In my buddies Stinson, no problem even though his doors scare the crap (they seem to barely latch on when closed) out of me!

But flying in my 750 STOL I've caught myself being startled when I can look out the bubble doors and see straight down... I often startle myself and go "WHOA"!!!! LOL but then it goes away and I love the view again! :)
 
woodchucker said:
I've got no problem with being in a little ol' Cessna; but put me on a ladder, the edge of the Grand Canyon, or a hot air balloon and it's full on panic.
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This is pretty common. Affects me the same way. I'm pretty scared of heights, but completely ok in an airplane(small, big, whatever). People often conflate and confuse fear of flying and fear of heights(fear of falling is more accurate really). They are completely unrelated as far as I can tell.

When you sit in a small plane, you look ahead or to the side. Never down really, so the brain never gets that "I'm standing on the ledge" signal. Also, you are sitting down. That is a far more "secure" position than standing and your brain isn't registering it as you are about to fall.

Another note is distance. For me, after a certain height, as details on the ground get lost, it's a little less scary.
 
Haven't you ever been told, "don't look down!" Sheesh... :)
 
RV10flyer said:
I am in the "Unsettled below 5,000'-with birds, helicopters, fpv drones, rc aircraft, less glide, less radar coverage, less radio range group".
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Me too. Made it a problem fitting in with the helicopter crowd when I got my heli rating, because they all panic above 1,500' AGL. :)
 
Velocity173 said:
Apprehension is a side effect of Hypoxia. 7,000 ft is a bit low to experience this but we all react differently to increasing altitude.
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Agreed.... Altho I have lived at 7000 msl for 25 years after being in Fla @ sea level for 30 years... It takes a while for the body to acclimate...

Alot of pilots never wander up higher then 5000-6000 or so.... heck my plane is sitting in it's hangar at close to 7000..;):D
 
LowanSlow said:
Just seeing what every one has to say about this. Im a Low time Pilot,, you know,, the kind known as the "Pile-It" on at the end of the runway. Any ways, at times when I fly up at altitudes over 7,000+, I will occasionally get an unsettled feeling that might last a minute or two and then wear away, cant quite explain it (kind of like the nervousness of falling out of the plane if I look straight down?). While listening to a few guys I know at a fly-in recently, One just happened to bring up the same topic and confessed that they occasionally have the same unsettled feeling (one also regularly flies in the low to mid teens also). I guess im just seeing if any of you all ever have the same unsettled feeling while up high or if im just easily "a-scared" of being high?:dunno:
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Just stick back and kick her into a spin down to a more comfy altitude :yes:

JCranford said:
Youse guys need to some up to SkyDive Dallas and let me 'fix' that anxiety of heights issue you have. Nothing like dangling your feet out the door from 13,500...and then falling out!
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Or that.

I used to hear about greenhorn DZ pilots freaking out with the open door lol
 
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I think heights in an airplane are more abstract to your brain than something like standing on a ledge 100' up.
 
The problem and the solution can perhaps be approached scientifically, based on studies in infants/toddlers in the 1960s. In these studies, moderately ambulatory babies were placed on plexiglass suspended just above a checkerboard pattern. The babies could interpret that the environment was safe based on senses of both vision and touch.

Half way across the surface, the rules changed. Even though the babies could still feel the hard glass surface, the checkerboard-patterned material was lowered, creating what was termed a "visual cliff". Babies were reluctant to cross the visual cliff, despite the presence of an enticing toy sitting on the glass beyond the cliff's edge.

What got the babies over their apparent fear of the visual cliff was emotional reassurance from the mother. Big smiles from the mother caused the babies to trust the solid feel of the glass at the expense of the dangers suggested by their visual systems. The babies responded to happy mothers by crossing the cliff. The babies did not cross the cliff when mothers sported anxious expressions.

For the pilot, how about placing a happy picture of the spouse on the panel. Look at the photo when the anxiety strikes?!

If any of you try the experiment a few times, let us know if it works in reducing the altitude-related anxieties -- just curious.
 
Crossing mountains most pilots feel more comfortable going over passes where they have more ground clearance. Maybe you need to do more mountain flying!
 
islandboy said:
Is that why you took up flying in the first place?:yikes:
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Heh, no not quite. Was a poor attempt at humor. I'm also like woodchucker and Norman, I can and have been upwards of 9500 in my little Cherokee 180 but standing on the top of buildings or on the edge of things and looking down is no good..gives me an awful feeling.

I'm also a chicken on roller coasters and thrill rides. Something about being in control like you are in a plane is what gives me more comfort. I'm totally at ease in the cockpit at those heights.
 
this is not something that I have ever noticed to bother, and infant i rather prefer being up higher, I can see further, and generally more, not more detail, but more in general. I regularly fly my 182 at 10-11k and at work I'm in the 30's. However I will say it takes quite a bit to get me to feel uncomfortable with things like that. Being over water, out of sight etc non of it really bothers me.
 
LowanSlow said:
Just seeing what every one has to say about this. Im a Low time Pilot,, you know,, the kind known as the "Pile-It" on at the end of the runway. Any ways, at times when I fly up at altitudes over 7,000+, I will occasionally get an unsettled feeling that might last a minute or two and then wear away, cant quite explain it (kind of like the nervousness of falling out of the plane if I look straight down?). While listening to a few guys I know at a fly-in recently, One just happened to bring up the same topic and confessed that they occasionally have the same unsettled feeling (one also regularly flies in the low to mid teens also). I guess im just seeing if any of you all ever have the same unsettled feeling while up high or if im just easily "a-scared" of being high?:dunno:
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Remember, altitude is your friend. If you have an engine problem you want to be high so you have more time to get down on something flat, hopefully a runway.
 
RV10flyer said:
I am in the "Unsettled below 5,000'-with birds, helicopters, fpv drones, rc aircraft, less glide, less radar coverage, less radio range group".
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Ditto the higher the better for me. My wife is exactly the opposite she wants me to fly knap of the earth so she can see things better.:D
 
woodchucker said:
I've got no problem with being in a little ol' Cessna; but put me on a ladder, the edge of the Grand Canyon, or a hot air balloon and it's full on panic.
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This. I think it is a fear of falling combined with the perceived likelihood of falling. It is me literally imagining myself falling. It's the same feeling you get when you dream about falling or watch one of those YouTube videos of guys climbing towers - so I don't think it is related to hypoxia.

It only takes about 50 feet AGL to kill you, so in theory it should be able to happen at any altitude but I think there are certain visual cues that trigger that feeling. When you go higher than you normally do, the horizon looks different. At low altitude the horizon is clear and distinct but at high altitude it can be hazy and indistinct.

I normally fly at 11 to 12k and I've gotten used to what that looks like. But when I go up to FL200 it really "feels" high. Like curvature of the earth high (well not really... but feels that way). For the most part I don't get the "falling" feeling but it does feel like I'm way higher than normal.

I no longer get the "falling" feeling in a small airplane. Even in moderate turbulence when I get one of those zero-g moments I might feel like I'm falling in that exact instance but it doesn't translate to an "I'm going to fall out of the sky" feeling. For my wife, however, it sometimes does.
 
At work I'll break into the FLs half the time, but for my personal flying I don't often go about a couple thousand feet AGL, just isn't as fun, besides seaplanes and taildraggers get nosebleeds if they fly to high :D
 
James331 said:
At work I'll break into the FLs half the time, but for my personal flying I don't often go about a couple thousand feet AGL, just isn't as fun, besides seaplanes and taildraggers get nosebleeds if they fly to high :D
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Depends where you are. Staying a couple of thousand AGL in Texas in summer? No thanks that is not fun unless you like sweating and bouncing endlessly in the thermals.
 
narchee said:
:lol:

Off topic but sometimes I wonder if there should be a FAQ for new users on who to ignore. The self proclaimed experts (but who are actually way off base) can give some dangerous advice sometimes. As a new user here though you don't know necessarily.
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I typically encourage everyone to ignore me.

Lets not forget that advice here is exactly worth it's price.
 
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