Underutilized aircraft for sale

[kaiser]

From the other thread (thanks @ArrowFlyer86)

Maybe worthy of its own thread... would you lowball an offer to a plane that seems to have good logs but has been sitting (10hrs/yr) for 2.5 years?

When I wrote this post there was an airplane I've been eyeing as something I would buy. It's been posted for sale for the better part of 2024 and per logs has gotten about 10hrs/year since 2020, and probably 50-70hrs/year before that. In a potential purchase scenario, what do you all look at as far as sufficient utilization? I assume the first things to rot are hoses and tanks (this one has bladders IIRC). Then to my question above - do you toss out a low ball scenario? You are taking on added financial risk after all. Or do you walk away?

For the sake of argument, let's say it's late 70s vintage, 7000TT, 500 SMOH (in 2014).

Bonus question: Does this equation change if you regularly borrow/rent it and are familiar with it? There is another craft which I've now started flying which was also "barely" flying before I came along (oil changes @ annual). Does knowing/flying the aircraft change the equation in the purchase scenario? For the sake of this argument, let's say engines are TBO'd and the whole airplane could use some investment.

 

[FORANE]

Then to my question above - do you toss out a low ball scenario? You are taking on added financial risk after all. Or do you walk away?

Nothing ventured nothing gained. I would offer this explanation along with your offer for sellers consideration.

 

[TCABM]

^ That; I'd price in and be expecting to OH the motor on day 1. Since we just did an exchange on our O-320 in a 172, you can factor ~$45K +/-10% for the exchange, R&R, and mostly new firewall forward with a four to five month turnaround.

If I had been regularly flying the plane, I might change my mind; too many ifs to consider. With where I'm at in my next purchase journey, my priorities are a clean, airworthy airframe, current annual, current .411 & .413 checks as the bare minimum for me to look at a plane. My all in budget includes an OH on day 1 and putting in the panel I want while that's going on, because the next plane is going to be a travelling plane. If I find regularly flown, mid-time engine airframe that just needs a panel, all the merrier. If I find a goldilocks example in my budget then that's what I'll end up with.

 

[Racerx]

Depends on the plane. I'd probably be more interested in the known quantity vs unknown. But make a call. I'd also talk to some local a&p's. They know the aircraft they maintain and have a relationship with the clients and may know of someone ready to hang em up, but just need that little shove that would be an offer.

I know a guy with a Comanche 260b. Haven't talked to him since last summer. Flew up to Canada with him as a kid. He usually flys to his place in Florida, but didn't last year. Was having medical issues and was thinking of getting out and selling. Then I heard he was diagnosed with terminal cancer. No clue if that's accurate. Really need to call him. Plane hasn't flown since last August.

 

[Dana]

Bonus question: Does this equation change if you regularly borrow/rent it and are familiar with it?

Absolutely it could change the equation... in either direction. I've bought two airplanes that I was familiar with, from friends. Neither were currently flying, but close. Being familiar with them meant I knew what they needed so there were no expensive surprises.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

If you intend to be a happy owner then having a "known quantity" is a critical component of ownership. So.. If I've gotten experience flying a plane and have been happy with it then it'd significantly improve my comfort in taking ownership of it.

But flying it is only part of the story - you still need a good prebuy to evaluate all the things you can't see.
And I wouldn't be too bothered by the 2.5 years of lower usage. Just get it checked out thoroughly.
That wouldn't really discourage me at all. A lot of people slow their flying down before they realize they're better off selling it.

As for the low-ball offer: nothing wrong with it. I'd just be prepared to do it in a tactful way if the guy has been letting you borrow the plane on the cheap. Knowing you're a buyer at $X price doesn't hurt the seller. It just establishes a floor.
Plus, not every seller out there is looking to get absolute top dollar if it means they have to embark on a multi-month selling journey, dealing with clowns, tirekickers and people who are incapable of lining up financing (but only after making an offer...).
If the guy knows you, likes you OK and considers you a serious person - he might consider there to be some deal value in that from his perspective.

 

[eman1200]

for me, BIG difference between lowballing a stranger vs someone you know who's plane you've been flying.

 

[Dave Theisen]

for me, BIG difference between lowballing a stranger vs someone you know who's plane you've been flying.

We’re not talking about teabagging, stay out of the chat.

 

[eman1200]

We’re not talking about teabagging, stay out of the chat.

wait, teabagging ISN'T part of the purchase process?? who knew!

 

[SebIp]

wait, teabagging ISN'T part of the purchase process?? who knew!

Which way was it works? I didn’t experience that on my partnership buy in, so I am guessing that’s when you sell. So glad that we decided not to sell for a new faster plane. Then again a little tea never hurts and when you see 99kt ground you kinda wish we had..

LOL

 

[SebIp]

Back to topic. Coough.

You always needs to expect costs when you take on an old but new to you plane. 30k and counting of getting up to snuff costs to the partners so far. Additional costs coming up soon to replace the bearings for the stabilator which we are told is better than the ones on the flight school line, but which isn’t what the maintenance manual specs says should be (as in zero slop).

On any plane I think you end up with not flying = problems and not flying = less wear depending on part in question, how it was stored, where it was located. Might end up being roughly the same either way.

Lots of warning about engine online but I don’t think it applies equally. Ours average 60 hours over the last 26 years since overhaul. We are bracing for overhaul but we also think it might keep going for a while longer. When average is 60 a year and last few years as a group we put 150+ a year on it, it had sat at some point in it life. And the cams are fine when we had it looked at as part of the replace the push rod to meet dry tappet specs works.