Uavionix AV-30-C for basic trainer

[Kiddo's Driver]

I'm bringing my 1995 Socata Tampico back from the dead. I got busy and let it sit for 6.5 years.
The vacuum AI in it died before I parked it. Its not required in the Socata minimum equipment list, but come on...
The plane does not have an auto pilot. There is NO autopilot available to STC into it. It will never have one. Edit: There are STCs for certain S-Tec autopilots.
Current set up:
1. Standard six pack instruments.
2. No ADS-B out.
3. No installed ADS-B in.
4. Stratus 2 & iPad for ADS-B in.
5. Regular old KT-76 transponder.
6. KX-165 radios. (Edit: Looked at some cabin photos. They are KX-155s.)

I would like to dump the vacuum system, but the AI is first on my list.

Final goals in order are:
1. Replace the Attitude Indicator/AI/Artificial Horizon or what ever you want to call it with a non-vacuum one.
2. Replace the DG with a non-vacuum one.
3. Replace one or both of the KX-165s with at least 1 GPS/VOR/Comm & a Nav/Comm backup.
4. Add ADS-B out.
5. Add ADS-B in.

The simplest AI seems to be the AV-30-C. Certified & STC'd for my Socata TB9.
The AV-30-C can replace the DG as Primary, but you will probably need to add a magnetometer.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Light IFR & IFR training would be expected.

 

[jbarrass]

VFR I assume...

I put 2 AV30 in my AA1A and removed the vacuum system. Love them!

I'm not sure a magnetometer is needed, but it really does make them rock solid. I would highly recommend it.

 

[asicer]

If it were me. I'd compress the list.
1. Install 2 AV30S (if you are convinced that's the EFIS you want), install magnetometer (don't think it's that hard), yank vacuum system.
2. Swap transponder or one of the KX165 for GNX375. If it's a 165 that goes, then figure out another COM. You don't need 2 VLOC radios, although it does come in handy for 30day VOR checks depending on where you live.
3. If you are set on swapping out both KX165, do that here.

 

[Kiddo's Driver]

VFR I assume...

I put 2 AV30 in my AA1A and removed the vacuum system. Love them!

I'm not sure a magnetometer is needed, but it really does make them rock solid. I would highly recommend it.

I would like it to be IFR legal for training and for dealing with very light IFR, if any. As in, bust out through a low layer on an otherwise nice day.

 

[mondtster]

I would like it to be IFR legal for training and for dealing with very light IFR, if any. As in, bust out through a low layer on an otherwise nice day.

The AV30 is approved for IFR use so doing light instrument flying shouldn't be a concern if you go that direction.

My advice would be to do an extensive search on the AV30 before making a decision. The experiences with them vary greatly. Based on my experience with them, I'd have to consider the application and think long and hard on what the goals are before I'd buy another pair.

 

[Kiddo's Driver]

If it were me. I'd compress the list.
1. Install 2 AV30S (if you are convinced that's the EFIS you want), install magnetometer (don't think it's that hard), yank vacuum system.
2. Swap transponder or one of the KX165 for GNX375. If it's a 165 that goes, then figure out another COM. You don't need 2 VLOC radios, although it does come in handy for 30day VOR checks depending on where you live.
3. If you are set on swapping out both KX165, do that here.

Looks like there are many more options now than just a few years ago.
I like that the GNX375 is the transponder, GPS, ADS-B out, and can do ADS-B in with a receiver. That is a lot of bang for one unit. I assume I can use it to drive one of my CDIs.
I actually have two slots open in my radio stack from where I removed a 1990s GPS and my NDB.
AV-30s don't have glideslope, so putting it in as the HSI means that I still have to have a CDI with glideslope.
Good recommendations! Definitely helps me with what I should be looking at.

 

[mondtster]

AV-30s don't have glideslope, so putting it in as the HSI means that I still have to have a CDI with glideslope.

This, among other things is one of the reasons I recommended doing some research before jumping in with both feet. The AV30 is a DG replacement, not an HSI in any shape or form despite what pictures show you. I don't believe it is legal for IFR use on that fake HSI page either. It is not the equivalent of the other common digital options on the market.

Then there is the mixed bag of experiences with precession/drift. From my own experience, I believe that the aircraft these devices are installed in has an influence on how well they will perform.

 

[Kiddo's Driver]

This, among other things is one of the reasons I recommended doing some research before jumping in with both feet. The AV30 is a DG replacement, not an HSI in any shape or form despite what pictures show you. I don't believe it is legal for IFR use on that fake HSI page either. It is not the equivalent of the other common digital options on the market.

Then there is the mixed bag of experiences with precession/drift. From my own experience, I believe that the aircraft these devices are installed in has an influence on how well they will perform.

The precession complaint seems pretty common, but is fixed with a magnetometer.
I like it for the AI, but not in love with it for the HSI. Kind of why I wanted to do the AI alone and just get back to flying for a while before I go nuts.

 

[Lndwarrior]

I would like it to be IFR legal for training and for dealing with very light IFR, if any. As in, bust out through a low layer on an otherwise nice day.

That thought can get you and you're loved ones killed. There is no such thing as just being good enough for 'light IFR", IMO.

This concept almost got me killed when "light IFR" suddenly became hard IFR and neither myself, or my plane was prepared for it.

It's all-in, or not at all, IMO. Anything less and you are likely to become an NTSB report. Don't care if you kill yourself, that's your choice. But please don't take some innocent, trusting sole with you.

An a**h*** I knew took a very sweet lady with him when the sob augered in due to him thinking he could get by flying "light IFR".

 

[mondtster]

The precession complaint seems pretty common, but is fixed with a magnetometer.
I like it for the AI, but not in love with it for the HSI. Kind of why I wanted to do the AI alone and just get back to flying for a while before I go nuts.

Perhaps it is poor phrasing, but to be clear it is not an HSI. It is an electronic directional gyro. I personally do not think uAvionix's marketing is very truthful on this.

Devices such as the Garmin G5 or GI275 are true HSIs.

 

[Kiddo's Driver]

That thought can get you and you're loved ones killed. There is no such thing as just being good enough for 'light IFR", IMO.

This concept almost got me killed when "light IFR" suddenly became hard IFR and neither myself, or my plane was prepared for it.

It's all-in, or not at all, IMO. Anything less and you are likely to become an NTSB report. Don't care if you kill yourself, that's your choice. But please don't take some innocent, trusting sole with you.

An a**h*** I knew took a very sweet lady with him when the sob angered in due to him thinking he could get by flying "light IFR".

With an 0-320 in a wide cabin it will never be all in. It just doesn't have the climb for it.

 

[MRC01]

I'm bringing my 1995 Socata Tampico back from the dead. I got busy and let it sit for 6.5 years.
The vacuum AI in it died before I parked it. Its not required in the Socata minimum equipment list, but come on...
..

I recommend doing 1 & 2 together and eliminating the vac system entirely. That's what I did. But only if the airplane is VFR only and always will be.

I'm happy with my AV-30C units. The DG is usable without the magnetometer, though it isn't any better than a mechanical DG in terms of drift so you'll be adjusting it every 10-20 minutes depending on how bumpy it is and how much maneuvering you are doing. The magnetometer isn't too pricey at $300 (plus install & labor), so I might add that next annual.

However, you mention IFR, so I suggest spending a bit more and get the Garmin stuff. It's more expensive but more full featured for IFR.

 

[Steamflyer]

Probably 100 hours in IFR (actual) with an AV-30C. Works well enough as an AI though the presentation is small (narrow). Also provides redundant airspeed, altitude, and climb rate (all non-primary).

 

[Ed Haywood]

Just installed my AV-30 magnetometer a few days ago. Retrofit is not hard, but installing with the original device is even easier. I would definitely install a magnetometer with any new AV-30. You can parallel a single AV-MAG to feed 2 displays.

For IFR I would probably lean towards a pair of G5 or GI-275 depending on budget.

 

[Kiddo's Driver]

On a different note, I kept hearing about a “new AD” that came out that could send me down the “part it out” path.
I looked it up & it came out in 2015. I already complied with it & there were no issues. It is due again, but I’m not a likely candidate to develop the issue it covers.

 

[Kiddo's Driver]

The site I'm using doesn't have a TB template. This is an RV-14 template, but it is close enough to look at.
I have a transponder sized blank between the bottom KX-155 and the transponder available.
I have a KX-155 sized blank under the transponder available.
Obviously everything CAN be moved around in the radio stack.

 

[Kiddo's Driver]

Just installed my AV-30 magnetometer a few days ago. Retrofit is not hard, but installing with the original device is even easier. I would definitely install a magnetometer with any new AV-30. You can parallel a single AV-MAG to feed 2 displays.

For IFR I would probably lean towards a pair of G5 or GI-275 depending on budget.

I will definitely install the Magnetometer even if I only do one instrument.
I'm leaning pretty hard toward two and dumping the vacuum system.
Total net weight change is -11.6 pounds.

Oh, and I just dug back through and found that the dead AI in my plane was only 5.5 years old when it died. I am not going back to mechanical gyros...

 

[Ed Haywood]

I am not going back to mechanical gyros...

Cannot imagine why anyone would.

 

[ktup-flyer]

They work great, but the avmag is a must

 

[Kiddo's Driver]

The next step could be to replace the DG AV-30-c with a Garmin of some sort. G5/275/whatever.
Take out the VOR indicator and replace it with the ex-DG AV-30C set up in Traffic display mode. That would allow me to have a dedicated traffic display that could be switched to PFD or to DG if needed.
Take out the KT-76 transponder and replace it with a GNX-375, thanks @asicer, for GPS, transponder, ADS-B in, ADS-B out.

 

[Kiddo's Driver]

Near term panel again for reference:

 

[Kiddo's Driver]

I spotted a Tampico with an S-Tec 30 in it & it sent me searching.
There are autopilot STCs available for my 28Vdc TB-9.
S-Tec 20/30/40/50/55x/60-2

 

[asicer]

The next step could be to replace the DG AV-30-c with a Garmin of some sort. G5/275/whatever.
Take out the VOR indicator and replace it with the ex-DG AV-30C set up in Traffic display mode. That would allow me to have a dedicated traffic display that could be switched to PFD or to DG if needed.
Take out the KT-76 transponder and replace it with a GNX-375, thanks @asicer, for GPS, transponder, ADS-B in, ADS-B out.
View attachment 122260

Not sure I'd want to mix/match AV30 and G5. With dual G5's if one fails the other can serve as an all-in-one. Same for dual AV30's. Mix/match won't have that fail-over capability.

 

[masloki]

Not sure I'd want to mix/match AV30 and G5. With dual G5's if one fails the other can serve as an all-in-one. Same for dual AV30's. Mix/match won't have that fail-over capability.

I have dual g5s and you do have the risk of a failure mode where some bug can take them both out. My plan is to add an AV-30 at some point to eliminate that edge case. But, being an edge case, it is way down my list of aviation spending.

 

[asicer]

I have dual g5s and you do have the risk of a failure mode where some bug can take them both out. My plan is to add an AV-30 at some point to eliminate that edge case. But, being an edge case, it is way down my list of aviation spending.

I think that's far enough on the fringe that I'd be OK with an AV20 or even the GTX345/GPS175/GNC355/GNX375 AHRS. Maybe even a GDL50 or Stratux AHRS with enough practice.

 

[Kiddo's Driver]

VFR I assume...

I put 2 AV30 in my AA1A and removed the vacuum system. Love them!

I'm not sure a magnetometer is needed, but it really does make them rock solid. I would highly recommend it.

This, among other things is one of the reasons I recommended doing some research before jumping in with both feet. The AV30 is a DG replacement, not an HSI in any shape or form despite what pictures show you. I don't believe it is legal for IFR use on that fake HSI page either. It is not the equivalent of the other common digital options on the market.

Then there is the mixed bag of experiences with precession/drift. From my own experience, I believe that the aircraft these devices are installed in has an influence on how well they will perform.

Now I see where the comments about IFR use, and about it being a DG and not an HSI are coming from.

uAvionix announces its certified AV-30 magnetometer preorder

https://uavionix.com/product/av-mag-stc/

www.pilotsofamerica.com

 

[rickgn]

I've been using the AV-30c for about a year. I've used it in IFR IMC. The heading drifts terribly unless you install the magnetometer or the GPS track link. Other than that, it's rock solid. I haven't had any problems with it. I'm planning on installing a second.

 

[Daleandee]

But ... does it read level in level flight?

 

[rickgn]

But ... does it read level in level flight?

Yes, always... assuming you let it calibrate on the ground. I've never had an issue with it being out of calibration in the air.

On the other hand, my vacuum attitude indicator flops over often when it's cold.

 

[Ed Haywood]

Finally got around to flying with mine. AHI is solid. DG without magnetometer ought to be illegal. Have to fabricate an update cable to flash mine before I can test the mag.

 

[brcase]

The precession complaint seems pretty common, but is fixed with a magnetometer.
I like it for the AI, but not in love with it for the HSI. Kind of why I wanted to do the AI alone and just get back to flying for a while before I go nuts.

This is exactly my experience as well, the one I flew with precessed a lot, I haven't flown with one with a magnetometer, but would expect it to fix the precession issue.
Agree I had no issues with AI, other than I recall it takes it bit to determine how to read exact bank angles like for the 45 degree steeps turn.

Brian

 

[rickgn]

I found myself accidentally in unusual attitudes and potentially stalling conditions. For example one time when I was in high/hot/heavy condition and I was banking into the wind turning final. The wind made it seem like I wasn't banked as hard as I was. The reason why I didn't stall is because the AoA in the AV-30 and AV-20 turned red well before the stall horn went off, and I had enough warning to correct. So say all you want about reading bank angles on the thing. The AoA is worth the money alone. I've tried it in other scenarios like biannuals. The instructor was even surprised how well it gave alerts.

Note: Make sure you set it up right. There are a lot of calibration steps.

 

[chemgeek]

If you are serious about flying IFR, get a true electronic HSI that can act as a primary CDI, such as G5 or GI275. The latter can also communicate with autopilots for GPS roll steering. I put in two G5s when they first became available and ripped out the vacuum system, and haven't looked back. The G5s integrate with my legacy autopilot and make single-pilot IFR much more manageable. I'd never willingly go back to standalone vacuum instruments. The GI275 is nicer and more capable than the G5, but it is not so much nicer in cost. I find the G5s plenty nice for IFR, and light years ahead of my training days with the vac instruments and a separate CDI.

 

[rickgn]

The GI275 is nicer and more capable than the G5, but it is not so much nicer in cost.

Exactly. I'm betting you have 10k in your install.

AV-30 is upcoming autopilot certifications and also HSI certification to integrate with navigators and nav/com.