Two Questions

[jaybee]

How people end up in planes flying with equipment they don't know how to operate I'll never understand.

huh... guess same could be said for commercial pilots that tell someone to land at an uncontrolled field because of a radio failure when the FAA says its perfectly ok to do so as long as you follow procedure... :wink2:

 

[MDeitch1976]

Your boss must not mind you using your work computer to access this forum, so use it to find the regulations at www.faa.gov. Big advantage over printed regs is that the online version is absolutely up-to-date.

Bob Gardner

I had found the reg of the use of anti collision lights in part 91. In my training I never learned about the part 23 regs. I didn't want to consume to much time.

As far as checking out the forum, only takes a few seconds, so it is easy as pie to look and see if someone has responded.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Captain]

huh... guess same could be said for commercial pilots that tell someone to land at an uncontrolled field because of a radio failure when the FAA says its perfectly ok to do so as long as you follow procedure... :wink2:

Huh? Was that some sort of dig on me?

Whatever. My post was what I would do. When you are me you can decide what I would do.

Besides, I think I'm pretty close to what would be considered normal by most pilots. I couldn't really discern what your complaint with my post was...

 

[midlifeflyer]

I wonder if the flight school knows this?

One would hope - the limitation to day VFR flight is where one would expect that type of information to be - in the "Limitations" section of the manual.

 

[jaybee]

Huh? Was that some sort of dig on me?

Whatever. My post was what I would do. When you are me you can decide what I would do.

Besides, I think I'm pretty close to what would be considered normal by most pilots. I couldn't really discern what your complaint with my post was...

Well... its only a dig if you consider it one I guess.

You denounce a pilot for not knowing the equipment in a plane yet you do not know the FAA's procedure for landing at a towered airport without comms when there is absolutely no reason why you have to divert to an uncontrolled field if you follow procedure. ( or you didn't provide the "correct" answer to a private pilot candidate's question, might want to brush up on your FOI with what was wrong with that.... )

Pot meet Kettle.

 

[Captain]

Well... its only a dig if you consider it one I guess.

You denounce a pilot for not knowing the equipment in a plane yet you do not know the FAA's procedure for landing at a towered airport without comms when there is absolutely no reason why you have to divert to an uncontrolled field if you follow procedure. ( or you didn't provide the "correct" answer to a private pilot candidate's question, might want to brush up on your FOI with what was wrong with that.... )

Pot meet Kettle.

Thanks for the belittling advice. I'll run right out now and 'brush up' because you told me to so nicely.

 

[Captain]

Better yet, maybe you could share the procedure as you see it...

 

[eetrojan]

Now I'm really confused, what plane with lights does not have a rear position light? My understanding is you need 4 anticollision lights, port, starboard and stern position lights and a beacon or strobe.

I've been thinking about this too.

I train at a school that has three Evektor Sportstars and one of them is IFR equipped. They all have solid red and green LED position lights on the left and right wing tips, and flashing white LED anti-collision beacons at the same wing tip locations. They also have a landing light on the left wing.

However, they do not have a solid white position light at the stern. I take it that this particular position light is optional?

They're often flown at night and the IFR one is flown in IMC, so evidently they're ok.

In case it matters, I believe you can see the solid red, solid green and flashing white lights from the front and rear of the airplanes.

 

[MAKG1]

Well... its only a dig if you consider it one I guess.

You denounce a pilot for not knowing the equipment in a plane yet you do not know the FAA's procedure for landing at a towered airport without comms when there is absolutely no reason why you have to divert to an uncontrolled field if you follow procedure. ( or you didn't provide the "correct" answer to a private pilot candidate's question, might want to brush up on your FOI with what was wrong with that.... )

Pot meet Kettle.

Jeez.

VFR, there is no fundamental reason why you can't divert to a nearby uncontrolled airport. There may be nonfundamental reasons, like your fuel management sucks and you need to land right now. Legal and safe are not synonymous. If you land at a towered airport with no radio, the tower and other pilots will not be expecting this. Unless your transponder is working, Tower may not see you coming until you're quite close.

IFR, diversions without clearance are dangerous, so you land where your flight plan says, especially if you've already been cleared to the destination.

 

[jesse]

I wouldn't suggest they do. But it would be swell if there were some sort of person who could provide Instruction in Flight....maybe even Certified to do so.

Ummm, who could do that? ...ya know, provide Certified Flight Instruction. There must be someone in the universe besides FlightSafety.

Seriously, I would never in a million years launch into the wild blue with equipment I needed but had no clue how to operate with the intent of "eh, I'll figure it out as I go."

Sometimes it's not always an option. Receiving dual from a flight instructor in my FlyBaby would have been rather challenging.

Just keep in mind that a lot of people that ask questions on these forums are indeed student pilots that haven't even soloed yet.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

However, they do not have a solid white position light at the stern. I take it that this particular position light is optional?

The always on white can be built into the lights on the wing tip. But as seen from behind, there should be an always on white visible if you are flying at night. (At least acoording to what I read in the regulations.)

 

[eetrojan]

The always on white can be built into the lights on the wing tip. But as seen from behind, there should be an always on white visible if you are flying at night. (At least acoording to what I read in the regulations.)

Ahhh. Got it. I will look more closely before my next flight. Thanks!

 

[Captain]

Sometimes it's not always an option. Receiving dual from a flight instructor in my FlyBaby would have been rather challenging.

Just keep in mind that a lot of people that ask questions on these forums are indeed student pilots that haven't even soloed yet.

I know there's students here. That's cool. I'm supporting the CFIs here.

All I'm saying is if I had a flight to complete in a new/unfamiliar airplane I be be certain I knew how to operate every piece of required equipment for that flight.

If ATC is going to be envolved then I'd better know how to work the comms. If navigation is going to take place I better know how to work the navs and GPS as required.

If I don't know then I'm going to figure it out BEFORE flight. Either with a CFi or the manuals or a friend or whatever. I have a hard time wrapping my head around screwed up comms with tower because I can't figure out the radio stack IN FLIGHT.

I'd like to think I'd never let myself get into that position.

 

[MDeitch1976]

The always on white can be built into the lights on the wing tip. But as seen from behind, there should be an always on white visible if you are flying at night. (At least acoording to what I read in the regulations.)

§ 23.1385 Position light system installation.

(a) General. Each part of each position light system must meet the applicable requirements of this section and each system as a whole must meet the requirements of §§ 23.1387 through 23.1397.
(b) Left and right position lights. Left and right position lights must consist of a red and a green light spaced laterally as far apart as practicable and installed on the airplane such that, with the airplane in the normal flying position, the red light is on the left side and the green light is on the right side.
(c) Rear position light. The rear position light must be a white light mounted as far aft as practicable on the tail or on each wing tip.
(d) Light covers and color filters. Each light cover or color filter must be at least flame resistant and may not change color or shape or lose any appreciable light transmission during normal use.
[Doc. No. 4080, 29 FR 17955, Dec. 18, 1964, as amended by Amdt. 23-17, 41 FR 55465, Dec. 20, 1976; Amdt. 23-43, 58 FR 18977, Apr. 9, 1993]

End Copied Portion from FAR 23.1385
Start my opinion: To me sub paragraph (c) states that the Rear Position Light can be on the wing tips.

 

[jaybee]

Thanks for the belittling advice. I'll run right out now and 'brush up' because you told me to so nicely.

belittling ? huh... you have no problem condemning other pilots actions but question yours and...

Better yet, maybe you could share the procedure as you see it...

see post #23
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1040640&postcount=23

Jeez.

VFR, there is no fundamental reason why you can't divert to a nearby uncontrolled airport. There may be nonfundamental reasons, like your fuel management sucks and you need to land right now. Legal and safe are not synonymous. If you land at a towered airport with no radio, the tower and other pilots will not be expecting this. Unless your transponder is working, Tower may not see you coming until you're quite close.

IFR, diversions without clearance are dangerous, so you land where your flight plan says, especially if you've already been cleared to the destination.

meh... jeez yerself for gettin worked up over nuthin... making sure the student understands unequivocally the "correct" way is fundamental to learning before expounding on the subject which will further learning.

sure you can divert if you want to but there is no reason you have to IF you follow procedure - see post #23 link above - and still remain perfectly safe.

everyone following the same standardized procedure makes everyone safe

 

[Captain]

Link to a link to a PDF. Great...

You let down into the Class B, C or D. I'm going to the uncontrolled field if able. Happy flying.

Btw, why are you fighting with me on this? Are you 'pro' flying airplanes without knowing how to operate the required equipment?

 

[denverpilot]

In case it matters, I believe you can see the solid red, solid green and flashing white lights from the front and rear of the airplanes.

It does. There's a really boring FAA document somewhere that describes how anti-collision lights on wingtips can substitute for a rear light if their angle of visibility is great enough, etc.

To give a 100% correct answer would require cutting and pasting that whole document, and right now I can't even find the darn thing. Also has brightness requirements.

Suffice it to say, stuff can be certified without the tail white light. There has to be something else visible from the rear in that case.

I only remember this because it held up certification of many of the early LED lamps that were too directional.

Didn't really matter that historically the bulbs on older aircraft were put on long before standards -- from whatever crap was on the shelf at the auto parts store, and then later bureaucracy added the specs. Once the specs are there, now better tech had to jump through the hoops to be utilized.

For a while there it was better that the FAA keep us "safe" using incandescents that burn out in-flight vs stuff that doesn't burn out, it just fades in intensity over long periods of time. LEDs finally ran the bureaucratic gauntlet, and work great for many applications now.

 

[Henning]

I've been thinking about this too.

I train at a school that has three Evektor Sportstars and one of them is IFR equipped. They all have solid red and green LED position lights on the left and right wing tips, and flashing white LED anti-collision beacons at the same wing tip locations. They also have a landing light on the left wing.

However, they do not have a solid white position light at the stern. I take it that this particular position light is optional?

They're often flown at night and the IFR one is flown in IMC, so evidently they're ok.

In case it matters, I believe you can see the solid red, solid green and flashing white lights from the front and rear of the airplanes.

White stern light is a requirement IIRC.