Turbulence

Sport Pilot

Sport Pilot

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Illinois
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Pilot
Drove 2 1/2 hours to the airport today to do some traffic pattern work. Weather indicated 3 kt, 10 SM, clear skies, 83 degrees.

I took off at 2:10pm. I took off and everything was perfect; until I hit 1200msl. The plane dropped, raised, tilted, and twisted as I continued to climb to 1500msl.

Completed my traffic pattern, landed, and gathered my thoughts. Not giving up, I decided to give it another go. Same thing but more intense.

My plan was to takeoff and land 7 times. Due to my experience, I only completed 2. Drove the 2 1/2 hours back home.

Due to work schedule, I only fly in the evening at 6:30 pm, where it is calm.

Amazing how vicious the air is during midday.
 
It's just harmless air flowing over the wings that makes it rock like that. Happens often. It's no different than a car driving over gravel.
 
By a house right next to the runway. It helps make lots of time for flying whenever you’re home. ;)
 
It's just harmless air flowing over the wings that makes it rock like that. Happens often. It's no different than a car driving over gravel.
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Ryan,
This was the first time I’ve ever flown in such conditions. May be harmless, but definitely nerve-racking. This being my third solo, I didn’t like the feeling of being tossed around.

I suppose the more practice I have the more I will be able to acclimate to this.
 
No. My CFI was at FBO when I landed. I told him the conditions and we checked weatherbrief together.
 
I’ll just need to learn to deal with it as it comes and not be so worried about it. Quite frankly, I had a difficult time keeping a smooth pattern.
 
Flying in turbulence in a light sport plane is not the same as flying in a Cessna or Piper. The lighter wing loading means the oscillations of the aircraft are more extreme.

Last weekend I flew over part of the Sierras in what would be considered "light turbulence". The "light turbulence" caused severe changes in pitch, roll and altitude. I've been flying for 30 years but this scared me pretty good.

There is no fun in flying a light sport plane in turbulence. From my experience there is limited benefit in intentionally flying in it.

No two days of turbulence will ever be the same. All you can do is keep the airspeed at Va, try to keep the wings level, while letting the altitude vary as the conditions dictate. Beyond this, there is little to learn by flying in it, in my opinion.
 
Flying in turbulence in a light sport plane is not the same as flying in a Cessna or Piper. The lighter wing loading means the oscillations of the aircraft are more extreme.

Last weekend I flew over part of the Sierras in what would be considered "light turbulence". The "light turbulence" caused severe changes in pitch, roll and altitude. I've been flying for 30 years but this scared me pretty good.

There is no fun in flying a light sport plane in turbulence. From my experience there is limited benefit in intentionally flying in it.

No two days of turbulence will ever be the same. All you can do is keep the airspeed at Va, try to keep the wings level, while letting the altitude vary as the conditions dictate. Beyond this, there is little to learn by flying in it, in my opinion.
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Yes, I am flying a 825 lb plane. What you describe is exactly what I felt. You have been flying 30 years and this was my 3rd solo, so I suppose you can understand how I felt.

My pitch roll and yaw were being deviated to the extreme. Additionally, the plane rose and dropped suddenly.
 
Sport Pilot, I flew 698J 6 times around the pattern at MVN today, stopping around 1300. Didn't notice any turbulence at all then, just a few light gusts on short final.
 
turbulence is no fun in the beginning but you get a little more used to it the more you do it. but one NEVER gets used to a 2.5 hour drive to the airport. whateth the fooketh.
 
Sport Pilot said:
Drove 2 1/2 hours to the airport today to do some traffic pattern work. Weather indicated 3 kt, 10 SM, clear skies, 83 degrees.

I took off at 2:10pm. I took off and everything was perfect; until I hit 1200msl. The plane dropped, raised, tilted, and twisted as I continued to climb to 1500msl.

Completed my traffic pattern, landed, and gathered my thoughts. Not giving up, I decided to give it another go. Same thing but more intense.

My plan was to takeoff and land 7 times. Due to my experience, I only completed 2. Drove the 2 1/2 hours back home.

Due to work schedule, I only fly in the evening at 6:30 pm, where it is calm.

Amazing how vicious the air is during midday.
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Midday and afternoon thermals ... get used to it in the summer and either fly early morning or early evening.
 
You'll get used to it to some degree, but you'll probably never LIKE it. Some days I feel like a tin can in a lake on a windy day.
 
Thermal?

I’ve been circling in a smooth area, no thermal in the area, letting down to pattern altitude. At one point in the circle I got hit hard. BAM! Lasted on hit, a second, bounced my head on the canopy. I continued the circle, got to the same spot, BAM!

I moved my circle.
 
2 1/2 hrs to an airport? Nothing closer? Or nothing closer that rents light sport.
 
Best to fly mornings and evenings during these kind of days
 
2 1/2 hrs to an airport? Nothing closer? Or nothing closer that rents light sport.
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Yes. I drive 2 1/2 hours to the airport every time I train. There is nothing closer for Sport Pilot training.

I spoke to one gentlemen at the airport who learned of my traveling time. He asked if I was worried about being burned out by the drive, but then he immediately said for someone to continue to travel such distances, I must be extremely motivated.

Best to fly mornings and evenings during these kind of days
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Yes. I have read the as the sun heats the earth, the heat rises and causes pockets in the atmosphere. So the best time to fly is morning or evening. I have scheduled my next flight on Saturday at 5:30 PM and Sunday at 9:30 AM.

As it starts to cool in the later months (Oct, Nov, Dec), is the turbulence less during the afternoon?
 
Is there a much closer airport to you? You know, there are a lot of light sport qualified airplanes out there that are not terribly expensive to buy -- less than some used cars. And they're fairly easy to sell if "airplane owner" isn't in your plans. Any flight instructor can give you the training. You can train in whatever is close & convenient (like a 152, 172 or Cherokee) and just do your solo flying in the LSA.

You may have already explored these ideas and found they don't work for you, but think about it. Having an airplane close by can really change the game.
 
Turbulence in the pattern in a light sport is nothing to scoff at.

Don’t feel like a whimp and take excessive risk. If you’re able to learn, then fly. There’s value in flying in difficult conditions. But If you’re just staying alive, and not able to learn, then maybe let it go for another day.
 
Is there a much closer airport to you? You know, there are a lot of light sport qualified airplanes out there that are not terribly expensive to buy -- less than some used cars. And they're fairly easy to sell if "airplane owner" isn't in your plans. Any flight instructor can give you the training. You can train in whatever is close & convenient (like a 152, 172 or Cherokee) and just do your solo flying in the LSA.

You may have already explored these ideas and found they don't work for you, but think about it. Having an airplane close by can really change the game.
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DaleB,
I have looked around. I started my training near Chicago but my CFI could not accommodate my mortuary schedule.

I am now in southern Illinois and have a wonderful CFI. He works with my erratic schedule and has been extremely supportive. I have over 25 hours in the plane and have acclimated to the drive.

When I mention the drive, I am not complaining. I am just giving an insight of my situation. I couldn’t be happier! :)
 
Turbulence in the pattern in a light sport is nothing to scoff at.

Don’t feel like a whimp and take excessive risk. If you’re able to learn, then fly. There’s value in flying in difficult conditions. But If you’re just staying alive, and not able to learn, then maybe let it go for another day.
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Salty,
I am glad to hear you say that. That day in particular, I was there to train while having fun; like we all do! The only thing I learned that day was heat can really throw you around.

That said, I do not want to limit myself to only flying at 9am or 6pm. I do see value in flying where conditions are not “perfect”.
 
Sport Pilot said:
Salty,
I am glad to hear you say that. That day in particular, I was there to train while having fun; like we all do! The only thing I learned that day was heat can really throw you around.

That said, I do not want to limit myself to only flying at 9am or 6pm. I do see value in flying where conditions are not “perfect”.
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I did a few night landings this summer in the skycatcher where I was banging the stick from stop to stop just to keep the wings less than a 20 degree bank. It was a fun challenge, but it's not really a good idea for a student close to the ground.
 
Salty,
As we are now coming into the cooler months, will this turbulence calm down for afternoon flying?
 
Sport Pilot said:
Salty,
As we are now coming into the cooler months, will this turbulence calm down for afternoon flying?
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Probably. Not sure where you are. Certainly in Florida things get better in the winter, but we're still a month or two away from that relief. Definitely try to get up as early in the day as possible. It makes a huge difference.
 
Sport Pilot said:
Ryan,
This was the first time I’ve ever flown in such conditions. May be harmless, but definitely nerve-racking. This being my third solo, I didn’t like the feeling of being tossed around.

I suppose the more practice I have the more I will be able to acclimate to this.
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I've never been a fan of being kicked around but you do get used to what is just normal afternoon convection and what is dangerous turbulence. It sounds to me that you got bumped around in unstable afternoon convection. I can be downright scary, I know early on I had real problems with turbulence.

You did the right thing. You got out of your comfort level and put the plane down. Next time you go up in the afternoon, it won't take you by surprise and you'll learn more and more what you and what the plane can handle. (the plane can probably handle more than you can)
 
You'll also experience some turbulence at higher levels due to different factors, like temperature inversion, etc.
I'd say for most types, just know to expect it...for others, like mountain wave, etc., just know to respect it.

Here's a link if you haven't researched it much already. Sort of basic, but not a bad read.

https://www.weather.gov/source/zhu/ZHU_Training_Page/turbulence_stuff/turbulence/turbulence.htm

Have fun up there, and I admire you're dedication to drive that far. Probably a good indicator you'll get past this turbulence thing too. :cool:
 
You'll also experience some turbulence at higher levels due to different factors, like temperature inversion, etc.
I'd say for most types, just know to expect it...for others, like mountain wave, etc., just know to respect it.

Here's a link if you haven't researched it much already. Sort of basic, but not a bad read.

https://www.weather.gov/source/zhu/ZHU_Training_Page/turbulence_stuff/turbulence/turbulence.htm

Have fun up there, and I admire you're dedication to drive that far. Probably a good indicator you'll get past this turbulence thing too. :cool:
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Thank you for the link. I saved it to my files and I will definitely read it. Though I read much material on the subject, I can appreciate it now as I went through it.
 
@Sport Pilot - just curious, what were the winds aloft at 3000? It is most obviously just chop from thermals but sometimes the winds just 1000ft up can really be ripping and you'll also get bounced around moving up through it?

Now here's another one for you to ponder. Like you, I did most of my flying in early evening. Mainly because it was easier schedule wise and often because the wx was nicer and cooler during the summer nights. But then comes your cross countries. Now, unless you blast off at 5am and get back by 7am, you are mostly likely going to have some of your first longer flights, by yourself, and probably be arriving back at your home base in late morning or early afternoon. You will notice upon arriving how that wonderful smooth air at departure has been replace with bumpy choppy conditions.

If you want to preview this, do a couple lessons around noon on the weekend on a warm day. For me, I knew I would learn a lot on the solo cross countries but coming home to a bumpy arrival was not something I expected on the first one.
 
@Sport Pilot - just curious, what were the winds aloft at 3000? It is most obviously just chop from thermals but sometimes the winds just 1000ft up can really be ripping and you'll also get bounced around moving up through it?

Now here's another one for you to ponder. Like you, I did most of my flying in early evening. Mainly because it was easier schedule wise and often because the wx was nicer and cooler during the summer nights. But then comes your cross countries. Now, unless you blast off at 5am and get back by 7am, you are mostly likely going to have some of your first longer flights, by yourself, and probably be arriving back at your home base in late morning or early afternoon. You will notice upon arriving how that wonderful smooth air at departure has been replace with bumpy choppy conditions.

If you want to preview this, do a couple lessons around noon on the weekend on a warm day. For me, I knew I would learn a lot on the solo cross countries but coming home to a bumpy arrival was not something I expected on the first one.
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Sinistar,
Auto correct tried to spell “Sinister” lol.
I do not know the 3000ft winds aloft, though I should have.

Yes, you are right. My cross country is going to require me to fly during the day. Turbulence or not, I have to get this ticket. I think it might be best to fly with my CFI during a hot day so that I can confidently fly through the bumps and have him there with me.
 
Turbulence is a part of flying,when taken in small pieces it gets more manageable over time.
 
Sport Pilot said:
When I mention the drive, I am not complaining. I am just giving an insight of my situation. I couldn’t be happier! :)
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You don't have to love or hate the drive -- it's still cutting into your flying time. That's all I'm saying. All other things being equal, closer airport = less driving = more opportunities and time to fly.
 
You don't have to love or hate the drive -- it's still cutting into your flying time. That's all I'm saying. All other things being equal, closer airport = less driving = more opportunities and time to fly.
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Agreed.
 
DaleB said:
You don't have to love or hate the drive -- it's still cutting into your flying time. That's all I'm saying. All other things being equal, closer airport = less driving = more opportunities and time to fly.
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Yeah, but having a CFI that you are really working well with, is priceless. Makes other things not so equal. Sounds like SportPilot has done this calculus already...
 
Sinistar said:
@Sport Pilot - just curious, what were the winds aloft at 3000? It is most obviously just chop from thermals but sometimes the winds just 1000ft up can really be ripping and you'll also get bounced around moving up through it?

Now here's another one for you to ponder. Like you, I did most of my flying in early evening. Mainly because it was easier schedule wise and often because the wx was nicer and cooler during the summer nights. But then comes your cross countries. Now, unless you blast off at 5am and get back by 7am, you are mostly likely going to have some of your first longer flights, by yourself, and probably be arriving back at your home base in late morning or early afternoon. You will notice upon arriving how that wonderful smooth air at departure has been replace with bumpy choppy conditions.

If you want to preview this, do a couple lessons around noon on the weekend on a warm day. For me, I knew I would learn a lot on the solo cross countries but coming home to a bumpy arrival was not something I expected on the first one.
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Exactly what happened on my 1st cross-country. Smooth air leaving the home base, bumpy windy conditions on the way back.
 
Glider pilots live for bumps like that! A low time pilot in an LSA solo that hasn’t experienced it could be a little eye opening.


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