TSA ignores diplomatic immunity

EdFred said:
I have. It's the sole reason why I'm not going to Thailand in February.
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Lots of people have, especially frequent flyers. I've told my company that I'm not flying to LA for our XMAS party, and that I won't be flying at all next year.
 
Well, I sure hope this story isn't true.

I guess the Indian Ambassador isn't a "trusted traveler".

Best,

Dave

What the...? Up to 84MM Mexicans To Be Designated 'Trusted Travelers', Allowing Them to Bypass Airport Security ChecksQuote:
As violent drug cartels take over Mexico and expand their criminal enterprises north, the United States has signed a “trusted traveler” agreement that allows pre-screened Mexican airline passengers to bypass lengthy airport security checkpoints... Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano claims it’s a way to enhance information sharing and mutual security in the face of “ever-evolving, multinational threats.”

About 84 million Mexicans are expected to qualify for the trusted traveler program [who] will get the perk through the U.S. government’s Global Entry Program... Applying is easy. Candidates fill out an online application, provide valid identification and answer a few questions from a Customs and Border Protection officer.

While Napolitano was in Mexico finalizing the trusted traveler agreement this week, she also took the opportunity to sign a “letter of intent” to develop a plan for protecting immigrants from criminal attacks as they cross the border—illegally—into the U.S. Mexican officials have long complained that American law enforcement officers stand by as illegal immigrants are robbed, killed or violently beaten. Napolitano has committed to reducing the risk to life and security of migrants, according to the Mexican minister.
Can this actually be true?

Edit: Apparently so, according to All Headline News. BUT! The article says Napolitano signed a treaty, which would mean the Senate has to ratify it.
 
Palmpilot said:
If I were the Secretary of State, I would be making darn sure that the TSA knows just exactly what they can and can't do with regard to foreign diplomats.
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You think they can train employees that were hired from ads on pizza boxes and only required to have a high school diploma on the fine points of diplomatic law? They don't understand US law outside of what they see on Law and Order and CSI and that's their job!
 
I have no problem with the trusted traveler program. After all, why would non-voters have to be subjected to security theatrics?
 
And Trusted Traveler is a CBP program for entry into the US. Doesn't affect what will happen when they travel domestically, or when they exit. Just makes their inbound processing a little easier.
 
Regarding the Indian ambassador being the sole "selectee" :

Ron Levy said:
You have that as a known fact, or you just heard it somewhere?
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News reports quote witnesses saying she was (see post #2). Take that for what it's worth ...
 
Another shoe drops:

http://turtlebay.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/12/13/please_dont_touch_my_turban

The Indian foreign ministry has once again expressed concern about what it views as inappropriate airport searches of its senior U.S.-based diplomats after its envoy to the U.N., Hardeep Singh Puri, was briefly detained at an airport in Austin, Texas, for refusing to remove his turban, U.N.-based diplomats told Turtle Bay...

The Indian official said Singh offered to touch the turban himself and to allow the security agents to run a check of his hands for traces of explosives, but he said that one security official refused. Singh insisted that the security official had no right to check his turban, citing TSA regulations for searches of foreign diplomats. "Obviously you don't know your own rules. Please check your rules," he told the security agent, according to the Indian official. "The person insisted that he had to do it. He said, 'Don't tell me the rules.'"

The Indian official said that the security officials finally checked the security regulations and issued an apology to the Indian ambassador...
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mikea said:
You think they can train employees that were hired from ads on pizza boxes and only required to have a high school diploma on the fine points of diplomatic law? They don't understand US law outside of what they see on Law and Order and CSI and that's their job!
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I think they should be given a phone number to call when they encounter situations that are above their pay grade.
 
Palmpilot said:
I think they should be given a phone number to call when they encounter situations that are above their pay grade.
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We couldn't afford the number of lines and operators required to answer their calls. :-/
 
Palmpilot said:
I think they should be given a phone number to call when they encounter situations that are above their pay grade.
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Recognizing situations that are above their pay grade is itself above their pay grade.
 
LOL! OK, there's a grain of truth in those observations, but I hope you guys don't display that level of resignation when you're flying!
 
Bob Noel said:
We couldn't afford the number of lines and operators required to answer their calls. :-/
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But India or Manila could.

I can see it now...

TSA: We gots da prablom.

Call Center: Thank you for calling. My name is Peggy, how may I help you?

TSA: Foistly, Peggy. Whatcha all wearing?
 
Richard said:
But India or Manila could.

I can see it now...

TSA: We gots da prablom.

Call Center: Thank you for calling. My name is Peggy, how may I help you?

TSA: Foistly, Peggy. Whatcha all wearing?
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Well, then they might just be able to not violate the Indian Ambassador
 
JeffDG said:
Recognizing situations that are above their pay grade is itself above their pay grade.
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Recognizing situations that are above their pay grade is..... oh, well, never mind. If you can't say something nice.......
 
Palmpilot said:
I think they should be given a phone number to call when they encounter situations that are above their pay grade.
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Ring Ring! Click

Please press one for English; 2 for Spanish....etc. 37 for Indian, etc.

Please enter your 64 digit cipher identification number to talk to a TSA technical support representative.

After several minutes of trying to enter digits from a mobile phone.

That number is not correct! Please enter your 64 digit cipher identification number again to talk to a TSA technical support representative.

TSA recognizes the secret 64 digit cipher identification number to talk to a TSA technical support representative as: (in synthetic voice) 1 6 9 etc. If this is correct press 1 if not correct, press 2.

TSA technical support will be with you shortly...hold....the musical tune Dammit Jannet from Rock Horror Picture Show plays in background.
A TSA technical support representative will be with you shortly; in order to best serve you please:
press 1 to find out when lunch is
Press 2 for instructions on feeling breasts
Press 3 for feeling a man's groin
Press 4 for a woman's groin Etc. Etc.
1,684 instructions for dealing with a foreign ambassador with credentials that is dressed suspiciously.
Press 4,937 for a foreign emissary with a turban.

Best,

Dave
 
Funny!

Regarding the dressed suspiciously part, if that's part of their training I have to wonder about the rationale. I would think that terrorists would dress like everyone else, to avoid attracting attention.
 
Palmpilot said:
Funny!

Regarding the dressed suspiciously part, if that's part of their training I have to wonder about the rationale. I would think that terrorists would dress like everyone else, to avoid attracting attention.
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Do NOT, repeat, do NOT apply logic and reason to TSA.

sheesh
 
Palmpilot said:
Funny!

Regarding the dressed suspiciously part, if that's part of their training I have to wonder about the rationale. I would think that terrorists would dress like everyone else, to avoid attracting attention.
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Next you are going to try and tell us that if someone made a bomb they wouldn't put blinking lights on it...
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Next you are going to try and tell us that if someone made a bomb they wouldn't put blinking lights on it...
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Maybe not but we know from the movies that all bombs, even the one that gets carried way down in the bomb bay where no human can get to it, have huge digital display countdown timers with a push-button code pad and key switch that determine when it explodes and if you smash the display the detonation can't be stopped.
 
Palmpilot said:
You have just hit upon my favorite movie/TV cliché/pet peeve!
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My favourite, at least so far as bombs are concerned, is when they find a ticking nuke about to go off. They open the bomb to find the explosive sphere set to implode and go nuclear. The protagonist is so careful about carefully defusing the bomb at this point, generally with a bead of sweat while he decides to cut the red wire or the green wire.

At this point, the proper solution would be a pistol round into the middle of the ball of explosives. A nuclear detonation is continent upon complete symmetry of the implosion of that sphere. If part of it is deformed or goes off a microsecond earlier than the rest, no nuclear detonation. All the careful disarming just gives the bomb more time for it's trigger to activate and cause an actual nuclear detonation.
 
Geesh Richard: as a pilot, I would think you would relish the loud prop aircraft dive sounds when jets or helos point the nose down; or the fella getting sucked out the window when a bullet is fired in a jet.

Although, I have to admit, the bomb with what looks like dynamite sticks and blinking lights rates right up there.

Best,

Dave
 
JeffDG said:
My favourite, at least so far as bombs are concerned, is when they find a ticking nuke about to go off. They open the bomb to find the explosive sphere set to implode and go nuclear. The protagonist is so careful about carefully defusing the bomb at this point, generally with a bead of sweat while he decides to cut the red wire or the green wire.

At this point, the proper solution would be a pistol round into the middle of the ball of explosives. A nuclear detonation is continent upon complete symmetry of the implosion of that sphere. If part of it is deformed or goes off a microsecond earlier than the rest, no nuclear detonation. All the careful disarming just gives the bomb more time for it's trigger to activate and cause an actual nuclear detonation.
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Uh oh.

Am I guilty of espionage just for reading that? :eek:
 
Palmpilot said:
Uh oh.

Am I guilty of espionage just for reading that? :eek:
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Yes, my involvement with Her Majesty's Canadian nuclear weapons program has given me access to all sorts of information on nukes.:ihih: JTF-2 will be knocking down your door shortly.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Geesh Richard: as a pilot, I would think you would relish the loud prop aircraft dive sounds when jets or helos point the nose down; or the fella getting sucked out the window when a bullet is fired in a jet.

Although, I have to admit, the bomb with what looks like dynamite sticks and blinking lights rates right up there.

Best,

Dave
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That reminds me: One day when I was channel surfing I came upon a movie where they couldn't get the plane to descend for some reason. I guess it was something like a DC-3 or 4, anyway, in that era. I didn't see enough of the film to find out why they didn't just pull the throttle back.

I wish I knew what movie it was so that I could watch it and find out.

Speaking of movie clichés, I think science fiction writers have contributed greatly to public misunderstanding/fear of cloning by consistently portraying clones as having all the memories of the person they were cloned from, and as somehow skipping the normal period of time to grow from a baby into an adult.
 
JeffDG said:
My favourite, at least so far as bombs are concerned, is when they find a ticking nuke about to go off. They open the bomb to find the explosive sphere set to implode and go nuclear. The protagonist is so careful about carefully defusing the bomb at this point, generally with a bead of sweat while he decides to cut the red wire or the green wire.

At this point, the proper solution would be a pistol round into the middle of the ball of explosives. A nuclear detonation is continent upon complete symmetry of the implosion of that sphere. If part of it is deformed or goes off a microsecond earlier than the rest, no nuclear detonation. All the careful disarming just gives the bomb more time for it's trigger to activate and cause an actual nuclear detonation.
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Isn't there a James Bond movie (Goldfinger?) where Bond is desperately trying to figure out the complex circuitry on a nuclear bomb in order to defuse it, when someone else (Q?) simply steps up a few seconds before detonation and simply flips the "Off" button? (The countdown timer stops at 007, naturally.)
 
Jim Logajan said:
Isn't there a James Bond movie (Goldfinger?) where Bond is desperately trying to figure out the complex circuitry on a nuclear bomb in order to defuse it, when someone else (Q?) simply steps up a few seconds before detonation and simply flips the "Off" button? (The countdown timer stops at 007, naturally.)
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In one of the Naked Gun movies it was similar...couldn't defuse it and as they decided to run, someone tripped over the extension cord. :D
 
Richard said:
As if movie props have any sembelence to reality. Get involved in set construction for a better understanding how the two shall never meet.
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Well, there has to be a "ticking clock" in order to create the danger and a have a reason to move the story forward.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Geesh Richard: as a pilot, I would think you would relish the loud prop aircraft dive sounds when jets or helos point the nose down; or the fella getting sucked out the window when a bullet is fired in a jet.
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What about the "fact" that aircraft always go into an uncontrolable dive when the engine quits? (Sometimes the pilot can pull it out by putting his/her forearms behind the yoke and pulling really hard (but only at very low altitudes).) That's at the top of my list.

I also like the way that cars blow up in mid air after going off a cliff.
 
Palmpilot said:
That reminds me: One day when I was channel surfing I came upon a movie where they couldn't get the plane to descend for some reason. I guess it was something like a DC-3 or 4, anyway, in that era. I didn't see enough of the film to find out why they didn't just pull the throttle back.

I wish I knew what movie it was so that I could watch it and find out.

Speaking of movie clichés, I think science fiction writers have contributed greatly to public misunderstanding/fear of cloning by consistently portraying clones as having all the memories of the person they were cloned from, and as somehow skipping the normal period of time to grow from a baby into an adult.
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As a kid, I remember watching some hokey movie about breaking the sound barrier. After some crashes, the hero pilot finally breaks through by using reverse input on the controls. For quite a few years, I thought that was true--until my Dad (who was an engineer) pointed out it was movie magic.
Dad had a way of ruining good movies :)

Stuff like that outta be illegal:incazzato:

Best,

Dave
 
Bob Noel said:
Well, there has to be a "ticking clock" in order to create the danger and a have a reason to move the story forward.
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Exactly. That is what props do, they help the audience follow along. Sights and sounds add drama. However, try watching a movie made these days with the sound turned off. Without the music score, the movie is almost devoid of life. Wow, if that's not a lead-in to movie critique....

TSA employees, the uniforms, et al are merely props. Their air of superiorority reminds me of an actor on a live location...Don't bother me, I'm working.
 
Ron Levy said:
Not saying I agree with the rules, but Ms. Napolitano is legally correct. If the ambassador was getting on an Indian state aircraft (which doesn't include Air India), then you'd be correct. However, these checks are not "arrest or detention," and the ambassador was free to decline and choose another mode of transportation, like an Indian embassy diplomatic-plated vehicle, or an Indian Air Force transport, in which case he would be exempt from any checks. But getting on a US domestic carrier? Nope -- even diplomats take off their shoes just like the rest of us.
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You're incorrect on this one, as long as the US is signatory to the treaty, they are not allowed to do that period, her dignity is to remain intact. The moment she said anything against what was happening, they needed to cease and desist and let her go on her way. She was not subject to any form of search of her person or any of her belongings, it matters not what mode of conveyance she was using.
 
Henning said:
You're incorrect on this one, as long as the US is signatory to the treaty, they are not allowed to do that period, her dignity is to remain intact. The moment she said anything against what was happening, they needed to cease and desist and let her go on her way. She was not subject to any form of search of her person or any of her belongings, it matters not what mode of conveyance she was using.
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Yes, and furthermore, let's think about this for a second. The supposed idea of these searches at airports is to deter terrorists and other bad people. _Even if_ an ambassador had bad intentions (such as murdering people on a plane), there isn't anything they could charge that person with unless the President revoked his credentials.

This is another reason why this is completely bogus. Even if the TSA found a bomb, they couldn't take it from her, nor could the police arrest her. It's a pointless exercise.
 
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