TSA Hits the Road

Terry

Terry

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Terry
I see from the news that the TSA is inspecting cars and trucks in Tennessee.

The Representative in Tennessee has entered a bill that will stop any TSA agent from stopping or investigating anyone who hasn't had police training. ( I don't think they should be trained. That is why we have a police force.)

Isn't it against our constitution to stop and search anyone without a warrant?

What sensible suggestions do you have to combat the TSA?

How long and how much do we put up with big government coming into our lives? I don't mind being investigated if I have certain elements that warrant investigation. However, as a law abiding citizen with no record, I resent the TSA coming around on our highways and "checking" us out.

Terry :mad:
 
Terry said:
I see from the news that the TSA is inspecting cars and trucks in Tennessee.

The Representative in Tennessee has entered a bill that will stop any TSA agent from stopping or investigating anyone who hasn't had police training. ( I don't think they should be trained. That is why we have a police force.)

Isn't it against our constitution to stop and search anyone without a warrant?

What sensible suggestions do you have to combat the TSA?

How long and how much do we put up with big government coming into our lives? I don't mind being investigated if I have certain elements that warrant investigation. However, as a law abiding citizen with no record, I resent the TSA coming around on our highways and "checking" us out.

Terry :mad:
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Most of the federal governments activities are in violation of the US Constitution.
 
That could be disturbing. Do you have a link to the news story about the TSA doing the inspections? I'd be interested to hear the specifics.
 
If you go on TSA's website they include in their profile that they augment police, and other agencies on highways, train stations, street corners, etc. Their intent is to grow, and expand into all areas. It is just another government agency doing what they do. More payroll, more influence, more restrictions on us.
 
That is troubling for sure. I'm wondering how these searches are conducted. Are vehicles pulled over? Does TSA set up a check point. I'm not familiar with the enabling statute for the TSA or any other statute that sets forth their powers but I can't conceivably believe that the TSA has the power to stop vehicles including private cars and conduct "inspections" which leads me to the next question, what is an inspection? Is it a search of the person or vehicle, is it questioning the individuals.

Some searches within a given distance of a border are permissible but I can't see this being the case here.
 
VIPR team. Augment local forces where required but disturbing in that they have greater powers than what the locals and troopers have I believe
 
This is my "Told You So" post. Several years ago, on this forum, I predicted that what TSA is doing at our airports is only the beginning. I said they would be soon expanding to our trains, busses, and eventually highway check points, and even our street corners.

When any government seizes any power, and it's populace either ignores, or is apathetic about it, that government will continue seizing power. No government, anywhere, will voluntarily relinquish any power that it has gained.

Like all bureaucracies, by their very nature, they must grow larger. With more people, more busy work, and so goes the TSA.

We have, without a doubt, traded our freedoms for temporary security. Tennessee is just a test ground. If they can get away with it there, and they will, they will expand into other states. It is for our own protection, isn't it? Those back hills in Tennessee have been crawling with terrorist long before 9-11, everyone knows that.

It will not be too long before we wake up and discover that we have built a true Orwellian State. But then, if you think about it, how else can such a huge population be managed? I am sure the signers of our Constitution never in their wildest dreams, envisioned the huge and growing population this country now has. Had they known, they probably would have set up The Department of Homeland Security and TSA back then, and not even bothered with a Bill of Rights......probably.

It won't be to long before our armed forces will be chanting in unison, "For The Homeland!"

John
 
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So are the TSA guards armed?

Do they run with red lights and sirens?

Do they have training in traffic control and police work?

Do they issue a ticket? Maybe let you off with a warning. :wink2:

What training do they have? If I don't recognize the TSA do they have the authority to hold me until a State Trooper is called?

I am writing my congressman and senator to try and stop this. We need to "push back" this over-reach of government.

I have had ENOUGH!

Terry
 
Terry said:
So are the TSA guards armed?

Do they run with red lights and sirens?

Do they have training in traffic control and police work?

Do they issue a ticket? Maybe let you off with a warning. :wink2:

What training do they have? If I don't recognize the TSA do they have the authority to hold me until a State Trooper is called?

I am writing my congressman and senator to try and stop this. We need to "push back" this over-reach of government.

I have had ENOUGH!

Terry
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Good luck with that.

John
 
I just emailed my Senator, who I met personally and know, so I will see what kind of reply I get.

This is NOT the America I grew up with!

Terry
 
OzPilot said:
VIPR team. Augment local forces where required but disturbing in that they have greater powers than what the locals and troopers have I believe
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What is VIPR?

Terry
 
I just went to the TSA's web site. What a surprise!

I had no idea the reach into our personal lives. They have an "Intercity Bus Patrol, Trucking Patrol, and several intrusions directly into our personal activities. All in the name of making us "Safe".

I wonder if "Life Lock" will keep them out of my bank account? :rolleyes2:

I live in "fly over" country and rarely see anything of a large city. I have decided today to start paying more attention to this government intrusion and start trying to combat this.

Terry
 
Isn't it against our constitution to stop and search anyone without a warrant?
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Technically it's in the Bill of Rights, not the Constitution proper.


I wonder what the side effect will be when they pull over a drug runner or someone who is too self centered that shoots the tsa on the side of the road like they do to the police from time to time?
The image that comes to mind is kicking an ant pile.
 
fgcason said:
Technically it's in the Bill of Rights, not the Constitution proper.


I wonder what the side effect will be when they pull over a drug runner or someone who is too self centered that shoots the tsa on the side of the road like they do to the police from time to time?
The image that comes to mind is kicking an ant pile.
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Frank,

Thanks for the correction. I knew it was in the Bill of Rights but was typing and thinking two different ideas at the same time. (Sort of like adjusting the HSI and Heading and Radio's while taxing.) :nono:

However, I am still fed up with trying to enjoy life and being rudely interrupted by a bunch of "wannabee" baby sitters. :(

Terry
 
fgcason said:
Technically it's in the Bill of Rights, not the Constitution proper.
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What is your source for that information? Amendments are considered part of the Constitution, no?
 
roncachamp said:
Most of the federal governments activities are in violation of the US Constitution.
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The justices of the Supreme Court would disagree, but no doubt you know better.

Thing is, folks see this at an airport, a strange and scary place for many, and it makes them feel secure. Do it where they live, and they won't see it that way. Something becomes that unpopular and go away it will. Politicians know which side of the bread is buttered.
 
steingar said:
The justices of the Supreme Court would disagree, but no doubt you know better.

Thing is, folks see this at an airport, a strange and scary place for many, and it makes them feel secure. Do it where they live, and they won't see it that way. Something becomes that unpopular and go away it will.
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I don't share your confidence.

I've got a dollar that says this TSA crap will only be worse in ten years, not better.
 
What is your source for that information? Amendments are considered part of the Constitution, no?
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Source? The Constitution of the United States of America and the Bill of Rights.
If you read the Constitution and no additional supporting documents, it will not say anything about searches, seizures or that type of thing.
If you read the Bill of Rights that further restricts the powers of the Government beyond the limitations of the Constitution, it's right there in no uncertain terms.
Therefore it's a supporting document (Bill of Rights), not the main document (Constitution) itself. Operationally it's the same thing..or is supposed to be..but it's not on the same actual document. (Persuasive writing 101 will fail you instantly for walking into a fight without the proper references)


Terry said:
Thanks for the correction. I knew it was in the Bill of Rights but was typing and thinking two different ideas at the same time.
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I learned a long time ago that if you're going to storm the castle with torches and pitchforks, you have make sure you're attacking the correct door..and not a wall. ..Of course if the castle guards are guarding the inside of the wall while you're coming through their door, so much the better.

Just for fun, it's entertaining for purely philosophical reasons to read the Declaration of Independence from time to time.

However, I am still fed up with trying to enjoy life and being rudely interrupted by a bunch of "wannabee" baby sitters.
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Oh yea. Right there with you. The travel restrictions nowadays are draconian compared to what they were at the end of the last century whether on the ground or in the air.
Don't blame it all on the system though. In the last two years I've had more trouble on the road with normal citizens calling the police on me than I've had with the system itself or terrorists. (Sorry hero citizens, a motorhome in a BFE nowhere pullout area fixing an alternator failure is not a terrorist threat or even suspicious activity)
 
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Amendment IV (4th amendment)

​
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Read more: Bill of Rights Amendments to the U.S. Constitution, Read the Bill of Rights, Learn the purpose of the Bill of Rights http://www.american-history-fun-facts.com/bill-of-rights-amendments.html#ixzz1o4uu72xf
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution Share Alike

I looked this up on the internet and, in my opinion, the TSA does not have the right or authority to stop and search automobiles. This should come under the State's provisions.

Consider this. The present administration is suing the State of Arizona over illegal immigration. Wouldn't it be better for all if the Federal government worked with the State of Arizona to help with illegal immigration?

Back to the basic premise. Why has it become necessary for the U.S. Government to patrol and search the highways of Tennessee? Do we have terrorist activity that we don't know about? Why Tennessee?

It is time to start calling the Federal Government accountable and stand up against this tyranny.

This is Precisely why the Bill of Rights was added to the constitution.

Terry
​
 
fgcason said:
Source? The Constitution of the United States of America and the Bill of Rights.
If you read the Constitution and no additional supporting documents, it will not say anything about searches, seizures or that type of thing.
If you read the Bill of Rights that further restricts the powers of the Government beyond the limitations of the Constitution, it's right there in no uncertain terms.
Therefore it's a supporting document (Bill of Rights), not the main document (Constitution) itself. Operationally it's the same thing..or is supposed to be..but it's not on the same actual document. (Persuasive writing 101 will fail you instantly for walking into a fight without the proper references)
Click to expand...

What fight? I was asking a question. Unfortunately, I phrased it unclearly. I meant to ask what your source is for the idea that the Bill of Rights and other amendments are not part of the Constitution. Don't they legally become part of the Constitution as soon as they are ratified (unless a different effective date is specified)?
 
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TSA, what's that? As for security, I tell my passengers that they can carry anything from 9mm handguns to shotguns onboard my airplane but I draw the line at hand grenades.
 
For a long time I have been bitching about what the TSA has been doing at our airports. That is, I've been yakking with customers and friends about it. Most all of them agree that what the TSA is doing is necessary. On forums such as this, there seems to be more people against it, but then, would the TSA be doing what they are doing if they did not have wide public support?

Myself, I think the concept of this being a free country is rapidly running out of steam, if you compared it to say what we had fifty years ago. It is becoming more of a slogan rather than a reality when we say we are free.

Is The "Peoples" Republic of North Korea really representative of what the "people" want? Or is it what they have been brainwashed into thinking that is what they want?

John
 
fgcason said:
Technically it's in the Bill of Rights, not the Constitution proper...
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When you amend a document, the change becomes a part of that document. The first ten amendments have been referred to as "The Bill of Rights," but they are not somehow a separate document, but in fact modifications which are now part of the original document, as are all the amendments.
 
As societies get older and more complex, more rules arise to forestall conflict. It is simply the nature of society.

I suspect those claiming the TSA actions against motorists constitute a breach of the 4th amendment are quite correct. However, I truly fear for when this hits the SCOTUS. A very conservative SCOTUS has backed police powers for many years, often to nearly ludicrous levels. I fear they will destroy what little is left of the 4th. And little it is.
 
Palmpilot said:
What fight? I was asking a question. Unfortunately, I phrased it unclearly.
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Relax. Breathe. That's a reference, not something against you or anyone else specifically. It's the mess that would have to be dealt with if the people descend on the powers that be. The first thing out of their mouth would be "it's not in the constitution, it's in the bill of rights, go back to your shacks and be good little citizen peasants." It's much more effective to walk in and say "Amendment IV to the US Constitution. Explain yourselves right now or get out."

Myself, I think the concept of this being a free country is rapidly running out of steam, if you compared it to say what we had fifty years ago. It is becoming more of a slogan rather than a reality when we say we are free.
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Same here. I travel quite a bit and use to overnight in public places that will now get you a talk with the authorities after some normal citizen calls the police on you. I'm on a first name basis with a northern AZ highway patrol officer because of it. The officer says the call for what I'm doing is seriously out of line to the point he can't bother me but he had to check anyway. I don't even consider staying in GA airport parking lots anymore unless I can talk to the airport manager ahead of time. It's a free country as long as you pay up money to someone and don't do anything out of the ordinary. You don't want to know what's coming for those of us without a fixed stationary address...
 
steingar said:
I suspect those claiming the TSA actions against motorists constitute a breach of the 4th amendment are quite correct. However, I truly fear for when this hits the SCOTUS. A very conservative SCOTUS has backed police powers for many years, often to nearly ludicrous levels. I fear they will destroy what little is left of the 4th. And little it is.
Click to expand...

Please provide some support for that assertion.
 
Providing staff augmentation for say the World Series or the Superbowl is one thing but isn't the real problem that the TSA have greater powers to search car, containers, etc whereas the police need a reasonable suspicion etc?

(Another issue includes their profiling as well, which is another topic all together)
 
roncachamp said:
Please provide some support for that assertion.
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How much research would be required to provide the support you requested? How much would an average law firm charge for that same research?

How about the concept of becoming so convinced, through various media, and over time, that you form a solid opinion. What if many more people, other than just yourself, have formed similar opinions?

Is that not public perception? Is public perception in a given society more of an influence than written evidence, hidden away in obscure volumes, on that society?

Or put another way, what is more important, the so called written proof, or what the public at large perceives as the truth? Then also there is the question as to the source of that written proof, who wrote it, how valid is it?

Demanding absolute proof is one excellent way of shutting up dissent, or nipping it in the bud. Once there is overwhelming dissent, then nobody really gives a crap about proof.

John
 
roncachamp said:
Please provide some support for that assertion.
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The SCOTUS has overturned fruit of the vine, saying evidence from an improperly conducted search of private property can be used in a court of law. They've backed intrusion into private property sans notice, i.e. no knock warrants. They've backed the TSA's warrantless searches of your person which are similarly devoid of probable cause. Your fourth amendment rights don't exist at the border or anything the government claims is a border. They've even backed warrantless searches of private property similarly devoid of probable cause to detect drivers under the influence of mind altering substances (primarily ethanol). The majority opinion on that one is nearly laughable, with the esteemed justices saying it is likely unconstitutional but necessary for public order, or some such.
 
Terry said:
Amendment IV (4th amendment)

​
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Read more: Bill of Rights Amendments to the U.S. Constitution, Read the Bill of Rights, Learn the purpose of the Bill of Rights http://www.american-history-fun-facts.com/bill-of-rights-amendments.html#ixzz1o4uu72xf
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution Share Alike

I looked this up on the internet and, in my opinion, the TSA does not have the right or authority to stop and search automobiles. This should come under the State's provisions.

Consider this. The present administration is suing the State of Arizona over illegal immigration. Wouldn't it be better for all if the Federal government worked with the State of Arizona to help with illegal immigration?

Back to the basic premise. Why has it become necessary for the U.S. Government to patrol and search the highways of Tennessee? Do we have terrorist activity that we don't know about? Why Tennessee?

It is time to start calling the Federal Government accountable and stand up against this tyranny.

This is Precisely why the Bill of Rights was added to the constitution.

Terry
​
Click to expand...

Show me in the Fourth where a warrant is required.

Show me in the Fourth where you are protected against reasonable searches and seizures.

Tell me who decides what is reasonable.
 
This is out of control.

I am a supporter of law enforcement. I support the military. I support law abiding citizens carrying weapons.

Yet, when I go to AirVenture, I bristle and feel offended when the only people openly carrying weapons are the Department of Homeland Security folks in their flight suits and shoulder holsters. I thought the Posse Comitatus Act meant something, but apparently it doesn't any more.

We're screwed.
 
IIRC, there were something on the order of 90 such traffic events, last year alone. TSA is searching for ways to expand into everything it can, to build a bigger, more expensive and incredibly dumber organization.
Janet "the system worked" Napolitano is the perfect leader for this movement. She has the gift of stupidly saying, "no policies were violated during the incident in question," so often, your eyes glaze over and you stop listening.
GWB gift wrapped the patriot act and after all the slobbering, whining and screaming, as soon as they got control, the democrats expanded it, instead of killing it, like they said.
Having that kind of power gives bureaucrats a bone, every time. Being able to spend that kind of money, is another source of power to them. Think of all the "favors" you can dispense with a budget that large.
 
steingar said:
The SCOTUS has overturned fruit of the vine, saying evidence from an improperly conducted search of private property can be used in a court of law. They've backed intrusion into private property sans notice, i.e. no knock warrants. They've backed the TSA's warrantless searches of your person which are similarly devoid of probable cause. Your fourth amendment rights don't exist at the border or anything the government claims is a border. They've even backed warrantless searches of private property similarly devoid of probable cause to detect drivers under the influence of mind altering substances (primarily ethanol). The majority opinion on that one is nearly laughable, with the esteemed justices saying it is likely unconstitutional but necessary for public order, or some such.
Click to expand...

What cases are you referring to?
 
John Baker said:
For a long time I have been bitching about what the TSA has been doing at our airports. That is, I've been yakking with customers and friends about it. Most all of them agree that what the TSA is doing is necessary. On forums such as this, there seems to be more people against it, but then, would the TSA be doing what they are doing if they did not have wide public support?

The TSA is necessary? Give me a break. I fly out of Hays, Kansas and the odds of a terrorist individual, group, or clan is very remote. My 89 year old aunt ships her luggage by UPS and then is still searched by TSA agents at the airport when she flies.

I have a Doctor friend who is Indian origin but an American citizen that can't get through security. We have people who are on the "no fly" list by mistake and can't get their status changed. We have TSA agents scanning everyone in an effort to make the skies safer while allowing obvious persons to go through the line.

God forbid, if we should profile. This country used to not be this way. We were far from perfect but because we have reduce our laws and traditions to suggestions and given everyone the privilege to be right, we have lost our sense of direction and who we are as a country.

Our moral and foundational structure has not only been altered but drastically changed to adapt to the rule of the minority and anti-americans.

I grew up in grade school with an opening prayer and then saying the pledge of allegiance. Several of my teachers had Bibles on their desk. The teachers were looked up to and respected. At times, I lost out on things, because I didn't fit in our qualify. I grew up learning that life wasn't fair but if you worked hard you succeeded. Succeeded, not because it was a right but because you earned it.

Government has gotten too big, too costly, and too over reaching. Why do I need the TSA patrolling the highways?

Myself, I think the concept of this being a free country is rapidly running out of steam, if you compared it to say what we had fifty years ago. It is becoming more of a slogan rather than a reality when we say we are free.

I can fly from Hays, Kansas to Cushing, Oklahoma, to Marshall, Texas, and never once be inspected by TSA. However, if I decide to fly commercial I am subjected to search and TSA rules. Really, a terrorist is going to bring down an aircraft in Kansas?

Is The "Peoples" Republic of North Korea really representative of what the "people" want? Or is it what they have been brainwashed into thinking that is what they want?

The "Peoples Republic of North Korea" is not a nation founded on Judeo Christian rules and principles. They have no Bill of Rights. The ROK was formed when McArthur was not allowed to go north in WW2 and Truman fired him.

I really don't want to argue as that is missing the point.

The point I am trying to make in this rant is that the TSA is over stepping their bounds and don't seem controllable. We blame everything on Bush and continue to ignore present problems that have the ability to destroy this country.

Our citizens have let the government bureaucrats come into our lives so much that we are on the very edge of being the free country we used to be.

If America fails, then who will speak for the down trodden and poor and needy? Americans still remain the most generous and helpful nation in the world.

If we fail, who will be left to fight for liberty and freedom?

Terry

John
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Thanks for listening to my rant. I have had enough and starting today I am going to become informed and active.
Terry
 
The water in the pot is warm, not yet boiling. A long way until us frogs are cooked.
 
If you really want to know when all this police-state stuff began, it was in 1913.

-Rich
 
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