Trip home

[Aztec Driver]

So the forecast looks terrible for a non deiced ship from BNA to LNS. If I read the Skew-T diagrams correctly, though, 9000 0r 7000 looks clear.

What do you guys think?

Upon closer examination, the skew-t's looked pretty miserable. As time progressed, they got worse, so I scrubbed the plan. Guess we'll spend another couple of days with the granddaughter and new grandson. Sure wish I had the Aerostar with the ice protection. Oh well, Twinkie lives to serve another day.

 

[Aztec Driver]

Getting stuck in Nashville for a few days kinda sucks. It sort of negates the whole "I have an airplane and can get there faster than driving" mantra.

Sitting here watching the thunderstorms roll through is interesting, though.

A great PIREP to Tune personnel, though. After I inquired about a hangar to put the plane in if the weather gets nasty,they put it in overnight when the weather started to get bad without waiting for me to call them. They are really on the ball at Corporate Flight Management. Not as expensive as I thought it would be either.

Oh well, maybe tomorrow.

 

[DutchessFlier]

PA sucks today big time

 

[Marauder]

PA sucks today big time

Yep, icy day in the clouds for sure.

 

[Aztec Driver]

PA sucks today big time

Yea, I see that. That's why I decided to stay another day. Stormy, but not icy down here. And it has certainly been warmer here than at home. Tomorrow looks MUCH better.

 

[Aztec Driver]

Finally got home. Not sure my wife will ever get in the plane again, though. Way too much turbulence. Even at 11,000 we were being bounced around the entire time. At 9000, we hit some considerably "moderate" turbulence which caused us both to hit our heads on the ceiling, and caused all things in the cockpit to rearrange themselves haphazardly around the aircraft. Only minor damage to the IPAD's screen cover.

This was an interesting trip. We had major wind and turbulence both legs of the trip. On the trip down, we ran into mountain waves over hills of Virginia. I don't usually experience them this bad at 8000 feet. The downdrafts and updrafts made a difference of 60-80 knots of airspeed. At one point, the downdraft was so bad I was at best rate of climb just to hold altitude. (This in a twin)

Thunderstorms in Nashville, ice and snow throughout WV and PA delaying our return. Great time. Yea, my wife will never fly with me again.

 

[Jay Honeck]

We got stuck in Nashville for three days once, underneath a cutoff low pressure that was spinning ice, lightning, you name it.

We still talk about how it was one of our best vacations, ever. We were supposed to be in Florida, but did it really matter? Nashville was an absolute blast, and we had a great time.

Flying little airplanes occasionally deals you a delay. As with everything in life, it is what you make of it.

 

[Aztec Driver]

We got stuck in Nashville for three days once, underneath a cutoff low pressure that was spinning ice, lightning, you name it.

We still talk about how it was one of our best vacations, ever. We were supposed to be in Florida, but did it really matter? Nashville was an absolute blast, and we had an great time.

Flying little airplanes occasionally deals you a delay. As with everything in life, it is what you make of it.

Oh, don't get me wrong, we had a great time. Had a birthday party for the granddaughter and spent a lot of time with the new grandson, so we had plenty to keep us occupied.

Just had to hope the business didn't crumble while we were gone.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Oh, don't get me wrong, we had a great time. Had a birthday party for the granddaughter and spent a lot of time with the new grandson, so we had plenty to keep us occupied.

Just had to hope the business didn't crumble while we were gone.

Now THAT I can relate to.

When I absolutely have to be back on a certain day, I don't fly my own plane.

 

[RV10flyer]

I live just North of your flight path, between HTS and M97. We were having 18G27 for most of the afternoon. Looked like a nice tailwind for you though. We hit our head once, even with a four-point harness in the -10. No forecast turbulence and the only bump of the flight. We try to load to gross weight, slow to 125 KIAS and keep the AP off. We went up after the tornadoes last March with 60 kts winds at 1,000' AGL and 25 kts at the airport. Thankful the plane and family handle turbulence well. I hope your wife will join you in the air again.

 

[EppyGA]

Time to spare, go by air.

 

[Becky]

Finally got home. Not sure my wife will ever get in the plane again, though. Way too much turbulence. Even at 11,000 we were being bounced around the entire time. At 9000, we hit some considerably "moderate" turbulence which caused us both to hit our heads on the ceiling, and caused all things in the cockpit to rearrange themselves haphazardly around the aircraft. Only minor damage to the IPAD's screen cover.

This was an interesting trip. We had major wind and turbulence both legs of the trip. On the trip down, we ran into mountain waves over hills of Virginia. I don't usually experience them this bad at 8000 feet. The downdrafts and updrafts made a difference of 60-80 knots of airspeed. At one point, the downdraft was so bad I was at best rate of climb just to hold altitude. (This in a twin)

Thunderstorms in Nashville, ice and snow throughout WV and PA delaying our return. Great time. Yea, my wife will never fly with me again.

I am very much interested in hearing the reasons why anyone would pour significant resources and time into a mode of transportation that produces this sort of discomfort and terror. It seems to me that pushing the envelope of one's ability to stay in control of the craft, despite the laws of physics wanting to take control instead, would be one reason.

Honestly, I really would like to understand the draw in this. As a wife, looking at these things in light of my husband's being poised to purchase an aircraft, which will be in our lives despite my wish that it would not, I do significantly identify with your wife at this point.

 

[Jay Honeck]

I am very much interested in hearing the reasons why anyone would pour significant resources and time into a mode of transportation that produces this sort of discomfort and terror. It seems to me that pushing the envelope of one's ability to stay in control of the craft, despite the laws of physics wanting to take control instead, would be one reason.

Honestly, I really would like to understand the draw in this. As a wife, looking at these things in light of my husband's being poised to purchase an aircraft, which will be in our lives despite my wish that it would not, I do significantly identify with your wife at this point.

Because 95% of the time, personal flying is the most fabulous way to travel.

 

[dell30rb]

I am very much interested in hearing the reasons why anyone would pour significant resources and time into a mode of transportation that produces this sort of discomfort and terror.

It seems to me that pushing the envelope of one's ability to stay in control of the craft, despite the laws of physics wanting to take control instead, would be one reason.

Yes, pilots are all a bunch of daredevils and seek out winds and turbulence just to see if we can 'handle it'


The laws of physics are what keep the plane in the sky, too.

 

[Ted]

I am very much interested in hearing the reasons why anyone would pour significant resources and time into a mode of transportation that produces this sort of discomfort and terror. It seems to me that pushing the envelope of one's ability to stay in control of the craft, despite the laws of physics wanting to take control instead, would be one reason.

Bryon has bad luck with having rotten days to travel, at least from my talks with him. In 2,000 hours of flying around the continent, most of the time GA proves to be more comfortable, equal time (sometimes better) and on our schedule, not to mention no TSA. I've never once, even in the worst weather I've flown in (which is some very bad weather), had issues with aircraft control, although I can see where non-pilot passengers would think otherwise. Turbulence is like potholes. Some parts of the sky are more like New York City than Texas, and Bryon happened to find one. He also chose to fly that day vs not. What do you think it would have been like in an airliner? Also bumpy.

Honestly, I really would like to understand the draw in this. As a wife, looking at these things in light of my husband's being poised to purchase an aircraft, which will be in our lives despite my wish that it would not, I do significantly identify with your wife at this point.

The draw comes to the freedom and flexibility that comes with it, plus the act of flying itself being fun for the pilot. Yes, there is something about the challenge and the learning. I love being able to take to the sky as only a bird does, and getting to see the world from above, seeing clouds from up close and inside, and the most beautiful sunsets (some days sunrises) in the world. I love the stars surrounding me on a clear, moonless night and feeling as though I'm flying through space. I could go on and on with the appeal, and I might add that when I started flying I figured I'd never fly much after getting the ratings, and 10 years ago hated airplanes of any sort. I'm definitely a convert.

For passengers it depends. I've had some whose eyes just light up hearing the engines start, and others who are sick from the moment they look at the plane. Sometimes I've had both on the same flight. Obviously the former is nicer than the latter.

You two will figure out what the balance is for flying and what works for you. The answer may be that you choose nicer days to fly when you're with him, you may learn to fly higher above most of the bumps, etc. You also may just hate it no matter what, as some people do. I have one person I fly a few times a year, and she's the only person who throws up in the plane all year, every year, no matter what. I've also had a number who, after their first small plane flight, thank me and say they will never forget it.

 

[redtail]

I am very much interested in hearing the reasons why anyone would pour significant resources and time into a mode of transportation that produces this sort of discomfort and terror. It seems to me that pushing the envelope of one's ability to stay in control of the craft, despite the laws of physics wanting to take control instead, would be one reason.

Honestly, I really would like to understand the draw in this. As a wife, looking at these things in light of my husband's being poised to purchase an aircraft, which will be in our lives despite my wish that it would not, I do significantly identify with your wife at this point.

My wife flew with me ONCE, two years ago (after twisting her leg). Beautiful day for a short scenic flight of NYC. Not perfectly smooth but not that bumpy. I did everything in my power to make it enjoyable. She was ok, then on final, tower had me do a few S turns for spacing. I did a few very gentle turns then we landed.

She smiled and said she enjoyed the flight but felt a little sick after we did the S-turns. She has shown no desire to get back into a small plane again. Plus the news media has done quite a number on her with regard to GA plane crashes. (the latest one was the Hudson River ditching), the exact same flight that I took her on

Bottom line is this, some people are going to be terrified of small planes (my wife will jump on an airline in a heartbeat). I've learned to accept that fact and stop pushing her.

Sometimes I think we as pilots, put too much pressure on our spouses to fly with us. Most of my flights over the years, have been solo. I'm fine with that. I'd rather fly solo than have a passenger that is unhappy or terrified.

My advice to you is, if you truly would rather not fly....then don't! Your husband should respect your choice to stay on the ground and use land vehicles only.

But remember, when it comes to death and accidents... A bus load of people died on their way home from Atlantic City a few years ago, when the driver fell asleep behind the wheel and the bus sliced into a light pole (on it's side)!!!

The driver survived.

 

[RV10flyer]

I love strapping my family into our RV-10 that we built in the garage from hardware store materials, launching into thunderstorms and watch their faces while Mother Nature takes the controls.

My wife and children actually trust me to make safe decisions about flying after less than 60 hrs of training, believe it or not. They also understand the Earth's atmosphere is constantly in motion. Unfortunately, we eat a lot of spam and live in the hanger so we can afford to fly.

I prefer to be in the sky away from automobiles being controlled by 16-96 yr olds, many under the influence and many testing the laws of physics. We average 15 mpg and luckily did not hit one stop light in the last 4 years of flying. Again, like in the last huge thread, I feel for your hubby.

 

[wabower]

I think the real answer involves a rhetorical question about why dogs lick things.

Because 95% of the time, personal flying is the most fabulous way to travel.

 

[RV10flyer]

I think the real answer involves a rhetorical question about why dogs lick things.

 

[DavidWhite]

You make your own schedule, you go where you want - and you go WHENEVER you want. You never get left on the ground and never have to rely on anyone else. Whenever I fly my Mooney somewhere I give myself first class treatment

 

[Becky]

Thanks. I've always had trouble with the "freedom and flexibility" claim, because watching your savings drain away, for a few hours of enjoyment now and then, seems like enslavement rather than freedom.

And your travel choices are limited by weather, places (often unappealing) that have airports (often without even an outhouse), and once at your destination you may have trouble getting to somewhere interesting, if there IS anything interesting nearby, then back to the metal tube for the dreaded, sweaty-palmed flight home. After a bit, the novelty of looking down on things pales next to the constant "where would we land if the engine failed" thoughts.

All that seems like it imposes rigid limitations, not flexibility. You can't even talk, like you can in a car, because of the engine roar/headphone thing. Somehow, casual conversation carried on at the shouting level gets a lot more perfunctory.

You can see that GA trips with my husband have been fairly rudimentary. I suppose more interesting ones are out there. We will see!

It does seem that some people will never enjoy GA flying no matter how they may try, or long to be able to.

I suppose it's "an adventure" to get stuck somewhere by weather and have stories to tell later.

Just working it through. Yes, the person doing the flying is doing it because they want to and get a charge out of it.

"It makes him happy, and that's the important thing." I get that that's what I'm supposed to say.

I have to be a really big person to do that. A saint, really. Which I'm not.

I do thank you for taking my questions seriously. I seriously want to get this thing somehow arranged in my heart and mind so that it can coexist with us happily. I'm getting shaky a bit because of the looming airplane purchase.

 

[bqmassey]

Separate the financial side from the characteristics of flying.... really. If you don't, it will be practically impossible to see any value in GA flying. GA is not cost effective.

So, now that you've gotten over that GA flying has a lot of pro's involved (such as freedom, flexibility, speed over driving, speed over the airlines in some cases, not being harassed at the airport, seeing things from the air, making day trips out of things that used to be weekend trips, getting to make a detour midflight if you feel like it).

There are also con's (being more limited by weather than ground transportation or airlines, possibly having to rent a car at your destination, limited payload).

Everyone will place their value in those properties differently. Even the same person might value those properties differently when when traveling for business than they do when traveling for pleasure.

The cool thing about having a pilot's license and access to an aircraft is that it isn't your only mode of transportation. You have just as much opportunity to drive or take the airlines just as you did before your husband starting flying. Flying has simply provided you one additional option.

So personally, I think you're overdramatizing a bit. It's understandable, and I'm not criticizing you for it, but I think that you might find benefit in being a little more open-minded towards it.

Simply put, when situation is such that the pro's of flying GA outweigh the con's, fly! When that isn't the case, drive, take a bus, take a train, take an airliner, walk, bike, motorcycle, hitchhike, or whatever other means of transportation makes the most sense for the situation.

 

[Ted]

Thanks. I've always had trouble with the "freedom and flexibility" claim, because watching your savings drain away, for a few hours of enjoyment now and then, seems like enslavement rather than freedom.

Well, the first question is whether or not one has the financial means. If it is a burden that you can't afford, then that is a problem since one needs to keep budgets in mind. If, however, you make choices, then that's another matter. For example, my wife and I drive older vehicles (10-20 years) that are paid off. I do all the work on them (I enjoy it), we don't eat out a ton, etc. So that means we have money to fly when we want to.

And your travel choices are limited by weather, places (often unappealing) that have airports (often without even an outhouse), and once at your destination you may have trouble getting to somewhere interesting, if there IS anything interesting nearby, then back to the metal tube for the dreaded, sweaty-palmed flight home. After a bit, the novelty of looking down on things pales next to the constant "where would we land if the engine failed" thoughts.

Sounds like you don't enjoy most small airports. A lot of pilots like them because it is near to something they may want to see or do, plus the fuel is cheap. If you're just going there to go there, though, I agree that can be boring.

But your destinations aren't limited - they actually expand vs. commercial since you have not only every commercial airport to choose from, but also every GA only airport. Go to the right airport and get the rock star treatment. Last time my wife and I went to Omaha to see the in-laws, we pull up, get marshaled in, and they drive the rental car right up to the plane. Forget about hassles with picking up bags and then dragging them to Hertz. Just load up the car and go. It was even warmed up for us already.

Then we went up to Newfoundland for vacation last month. Time wise it was about the same as commercial each way. But instead of having to drag our baggage (I assure you there was a lot for the two of us plus a 4 month old baby and presents for our friends) through the airport, then through customs, then back through the airport, etc. etc. we just loaded it up in the plane when we were ready to leave, flew up (one fuel stop on the way), and when we landed we called customs and got told "Welcome to Canada, eh!" Then the receptionist walked out to the plane, said "Hi Ted!" (we'd never met before) and was very polite.

Coming home the weather was bad at the departure point - an even better story. While the airport was closed all morning filled with angry passengers who couldn't leave because they needed to be there when their flight was ready to go, we just sat at our friends' house until the airport reopened. Once it did, we made our way there on our schedule, loaded up, climbed through a couple thousand foot thick layer, and had beautiful sunshine the rest of the way home. Another easy dealing with customs. If we'd been on a commercial flight, we'd have been stuck in a crowded, messy, dirty terminal with a bunch of sick, angry passengers, and surely an unhappy baby. Then we would have missed our connection and gotten stuck in another terminal, same conditions.

So, you can absolutely get where you want and get to interesting places. Weather impacts large airplanes too, just not quite as much.

All that seems like it imposes rigid limitations, not flexibility. You can't even talk, like you can in a car, because of the engine roar/headphone thing. Somehow, casual conversation carried on at the shouting level gets a lot more perfunctory.

You need better headsets. Sure, talking can be limited by needing to talk to ATC, but my wife and I have no trouble having conversations, and the cabin with the headsets is still quiet - quieter than my 20 year old car.

You can see that GA trips with my husband have been fairly rudimentary. I suppose more interesting ones are out there. We will see!

It does seem that some people will never enjoy GA flying no matter how they may try, or long to be able to.

It does sound to me like you have expectations of what you want to do that don't coincide with your husband's. That gets into relationship issues, and outside of the scope of this forum.

I suppose it's "an adventure" to get stuck somewhere by weather and have stories to tell later.

It's a pain in the ass to get stuck somewhere no matter how you put it. But you get stuck regularly with commercial flying, and my experience has been getting stuck less often when flying myself. You don't have to worry about your connecting flight taking off without you - there is none. Getting stuck gets in the way of your schedule. But, if you're stuck someplace that you want to be, then it's just a matter of your attitude. Bryon expressed displeasure about not getting home on his schedule. My wife and I went up to Newfoundland knowing that we might get stuck there for a few days because of weather. As luck would have it, we left when we wanted to.

"It makes him happy, and that's the important thing." I get that that's what I'm supposed to say.

I have to be a really big person to do that. A saint, really. Which I'm not.

I do thank you for taking my questions seriously. I seriously want to get this thing somehow arranged in my heart and mind so that it can coexist with us happily. I'm getting shaky a bit because of the looming airplane purchase.

This gets back into relationship issues. All that I can do is provide you with my positive experiences and tell you that there are some very nice perks when you go about it right.

 

[poadeleted21]

No speeding tickets... case closed.

 

[RV10flyer]

Don't forget this recent post...

Okay. Told my husband that henceforth I shall trust in his judgement re: flying, time, plane, money and me. He smiled pretty big.

Made a complete re-read of all the posts. My goal is to have a positive-outcome story, like many of yours, for a future spouse who may venture in here.

For the record, some posts here clearly were made based on incorrect interpretations of posts that had come before. That happens in forums, I surmise, so no big deal. Just want to note that I'm not controlling, a harpy, a shrew, or in need of drugs, a shrink, or a divorce lawyer. And the 75K kitchen remodel was a hypothetical situation, not something I'll be getting, though it would have been nice, come to think of it.

I guess it's chocks away, chaps! for now. A huge, huge thank you to all. I know some of those posts weren't easy to write. I appreciate them all.

"Well Tonto, it looks like our work here is done. We've got to keep this thread from circling back on itself."

 

[Becky]

Oh yes, I well remember saying that, and am trying to keep to it. I actually said it to him twice, to make sure it took. Of all the things I've ever said, I think he remembers that best.

At that time, the aircraft purchase was safely distant, remote even. It was winter. Reality seemed .. hazy.

I think we are not as sophisticated as you, Ted ... our travel objectives are more modest ... we don't even fly commercially but every 10 years or so. But then, the entire GA plan for us has not become entirely clear yet. As of last disclosure, it seemed like mostly short hops, practice, some longer trips but not too long.

Your points well taken and appreciated.

So personally, I think you're overdramatizing a bit. It's understandable, and I'm not criticizing you for it, but I think that you might find benefit in being a little more open-minded towards it.

Do they teach you to say that in pilot training? Those are almost my husband's exact words ... and then ... usually ... it's end discussion, with the happy emphasis on me being the closed-minded one!

No, just one who hasn't been assimilated!!!!

No, seriously. Thanks. Good thoughts here. I will try to focus on collecting some positives for me. I don't look at time away from my husband as a positive. We really like each other.

 

[Everskyward]

At that time, the aircraft purchase was safely distant, remote even. It was winter. Reality seemed .. hazy.

Soooo.... what did he decide to buy?

Staying out of the relationship advice because I'm about the last person on earth who should give it...

 

[Ted]

I think we are not as sophisticated as you, Ted ... our travel objectives are more modest ... we don't even fly commercially but every 10 years or so. But then, the entire GA plan for us has not become entirely clear yet. As of last disclosure, it seemed like mostly short hops, practice, some longer trips but not too long.

I'm just fine with beer in a mason jar and wine in a red solo cup. So don't think I'm too sophistimacated.

 

[Becky]

Soooo.... what did he decide to buy

He has been looking at planes and seems to gravitate to the 172s. He spent all day today with a guy looking at one. As soon as he lands on one (pun intended), I may post here so you all can tell me what is wrong with it!

He does read the forum, but hasn't registered or posted. You are our ... neutral ground, so to speak! But I've said nothing here I wouldn't want him to hear.

 

[poadeleted21]

Oh yes, I well remember saying that, and am trying to keep to it. I actually said it to him twice, to make sure it took. Of all the things I've ever said, I think he remembers that best.

At that time, the aircraft purchase was safely distant, remote even. It was winter. Reality seemed .. hazy.

I think we are not as sophisticated as you, Ted ... our travel objectives are more modest ... we don't even fly commercially but every 10 years or so. But then, the entire GA plan for us has not become entirely clear yet. As of last disclosure, it seemed like mostly short hops, practice, some longer trips but not too long.

Your points well taken and appreciated.

Do they teach you to say that in pilot training? Those are almost my husband's exact words ... and then ... usually ... it's end discussion, with the happy emphasis on me being the closed-minded one!

No, just one who hasn't been assimilated!!!!

No, seriously. Thanks. Good thoughts here. I will try to focus on collecting some positives for me. I don't look at time away from my husband as a positive. We really like each other.

What have you been flying with him in? Why not help him pick out the plane? I drove around for 2 weeks to find someone with a Bonanza to show my wife before my wife would sign off on getting one. She likes for me to take her places, and who am I to argue?

Ted has I believe a wife who's an accomplished pilot as well as a lot of hours under his belt, and a plane that capable. Launching for Newfoundland in the winter and expecting to make it or get back home probably isn't something a fresh pilot is going to do and having 2 pilots makes it even easier. My wife has soloed a plane, is familair with the radios etc... even that makes the flight more enjoyable for both of us. Gives her something to do.

My family/hometown is 10hr drive away assuming no traffic in Atlanta (a rare event). If it's a nice weekend I can be sitting in my mother's living room in 2.5hrs. Driving "for the weekend" isn't practical. If the weather is nice, I go. If it's not, I stay. Without the plane, it would almost always be a "no go".

For pleasure, we go all sorts of places, most if not all, we would have never thought of, or considered going by car.

We honeymooned via plane, weather in the cascades was bad so we went south, wound up various strange places around the west. Was fun. Just moved to the east coast but we're stretching out, anywhere within 300miles is fair game for a "quick trip" on a nice day.

Here's some pics

https://plus.google.com/photos/113766962850387565270/albums/5628270798159951905?banner=pwa

my wife's not an aviation nut, but she plays along and gets to go places.

 

[poadeleted21]

I'm just fine with beer in a mason jar and wine in a red solo cup. So don't think I'm too sophistimacated.

 

[Ted]

Ted has I believe a wife who's an accomplished pilot as well as a lot of hours under his belt, and a plane that capable. Launching for Newfoundland in the winter and expecting to make it or get back home probably isn't something a fresh pilot is going to do and having 2 pilots makes it even easier.

Absolutely true, but you build to that point. What I was getting at was more just giving an example of how GA beat the airlines in comfort, probably in time, and certainly in convenience. Showing it doesn't have to be uninteresting places with no bathrooms.

My wife bought me one like that, except the stem and base are also red.

 

[Becky]

What have you been flying with him in? Why not help him pick out the plane? I drove around for 2 weeks to find someone with a Bonanza to show my wife before my wife would sign off on getting one. She likes for me to take her places, and who am I to argue? ...
my wife's not an aviation nut, but she plays along and gets to go places.

Nice pictures. And what an awesome idea! I can go plane shopping with him! Being on the spot will give me a chance to nix any plane I don't like!

He mostly rents 172's, can fly the 182. Is instrument rated. Man, I'm gettin' the lingo down here.

 

[bqmassey]

Do they teach you to say that in pilot training? Those are almost my husband's exact words ... and then ... usually ... it's end discussion, with the happy emphasis on me being the closed-minded one!

Well, just so ya know, I don't mean closed-minded in a negative way. A more accurate term would be 'ignorant', but I didn't want to say that because it sounds even worse! I mean 'ignorant' in the way it is defined, Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular.

It sounds like your perception of general aviation is somewhat skewed. This is very common amongst non-pilots, and is nothing to feel bad about. TVs and movies almost always leave viewers with a negative impression of flying. A plane crash is a much more exciting addition to a movie than a nice, pleasant two hour trip to a fly-in. News stations rarely report on "Bob has a successful flight today to pick up his daughter from college", but any plane crash will be a headline. General aviation is often a victim of sensationalism.

I think non-pilots have the perception that you're up there helpless and at the mercy of whatever your luck happens to be. This is rarely the case. Nearly all accidents can be avoided by attentiveness and good decision making. It will be up to your husband to make conservative decisions and set personal limits. Flying through scary weather, lack of safe places to land in the extremely rare chance that your airplane turns into a glider, lack of commodities at the places you fly into, etc. Those are avoidable things. Flying can be a very pleasant, safe, and fun experience for passengers, as long as the pilot make a conscious effort to have it that way.

I recently took a couple of friends flying. One wasn't that excited about flying in a small plane, and gets motion sick occasionally, but liked the idea of getting some pictures of the mountains from the air. That flight went much differently than it would have if I was by myself. I waited until the weather was not only good enough, but perfect. I wanted there to be no crosswind, so that the landing wouldn't require a "slip", which is a maneuver that can be unpleasant for unknowing passengers. There was no turbulence projected or reported, and the conditions weren't conducive for it. We flew to a really neat place with a great view and she took some pictures. All of my maneuvers were gentle, no steep banks, no steep climbs or descents. I stayed away from the mountains to avoid bumpy air from them. The air was smooth the entire time. Everyone's stomach and ears were fine.

We had a good time, and she fell asleep on the way back.

Now, that story will be a different one when you try to use your airplane as reliable transportation. You won't wait for a perfect day, and that's where a lot of people started making bad decisions.

The time your husband spends trying to expand his skill level and experience shouldn't be when you're in the plane. Tell him his goal when you're in the plane is to NOT need his skill and experience. Make a deal with your husband that he must do everything he can to ensure you'll have an enjoyable experience, don't let him depend on flying for anything time sensitive, and you'll be fine!

Keep us updated.

 

[Aztec Driver]

I am very much interested in hearing the reasons why anyone would pour significant resources and time into a mode of transportation that produces this sort of discomfort and terror. It seems to me that pushing the envelope of one's ability to stay in control of the craft, despite the laws of physics wanting to take control instead, would be one reason.

Honestly, I really would like to understand the draw in this. As a wife, looking at these things in light of my husband's being poised to purchase an aircraft, which will be in our lives despite my wish that it would not, I do significantly identify with your wife at this point.

Well, you are not really identifying with my wife at all. Yes, she got very scared with the turbulence, because it was more than she had ever experienced before. She does not like turbulence, but knows it comes with wind and weather sometimes. I had also told her ahead of time that it was likely to be bumpy, especially closer to the end of our trip.

She does, however, totally support our ownership of the aircraft. If she did not, we would not own it, although I would not be as happy. She can see the utility of the aircraft. We can visit our grandchildren whenever we want, stay however long we want, and leave whenever we want, within certain weather parameters. We can go places that we never could before, see things that can only be seen from the air, and visit people on a whim that live hours away and still return the same day. We can fly to the beach, spend a day baking on the sand and swimming in the ocean, and be home before dinner.

I do my best to only fly in reasonable weather when she is in the plane. She trusts my judgement completely when it comes to when we fly. I am very conservative in my minimums when it comes to flying with her on board. In my commercial flying, I do not have that luxury, I fly in whatever weather I am given, short of unflyable weather.

At no point in either leg of the trip was there a time when I was "pushing the envelope of controlling the airplane." The aircraft was in my complete control at all times during the flights. At no time was any condition beyond the limits of either the aircraft or the pilot. Those are conditions that I check for prior to flight and will cancel the flight if I believe they exist, as evidenced by the two days I waited for better weather before returning home. While there may have been some hyperbole in my description, the notion that she would not return to the aircraft with me was an amusing anecdote only.


I do have a daughter that will rarely fly in the airplane with me, but she will rarely get in an airliner either, and she will "relax" herself artificially whenever she does, because she hates all flying.

While I understand your non desire for flying, and would understand and support my wife were she so inclined, the opposite is also true of myself. She would also understand my desire to fly and support it regardless of her desires. We share things together. She has her hobbies and likes, I have mine. She doesn't share my enthusiasm for flight, but she will not try to dissuade me from my passion. She may ask that we not spend quite as much sometimes, but she will not forbid it.

 

[Aztec Driver]

Bryon has bad luck with having rotten days to travel, at least from my talks with him. In 2,000 hours of flying around the continent, most of the time GA proves to be more comfortable, equal time (sometimes better) and on our schedule, not to mention no TSA. I've never once, even in the worst weather I've flown in (which is some very bad weather), had issues with aircraft control, although I can see where non-pilot passengers would think otherwise. Turbulence is like potholes. Some parts of the sky are more like New York City than Texas, and Bryon happened to find one. He also chose to fly that day vs not. What do you think it would have been like in an airliner? Also bumpy.

Not bad luck, just have to fly for pay sometimes when the weather is less than desirable. I could have waited another day, but chose to fly that day because the weather was certainly flyable, albeit bumpy.

And flying GA is far less traumatic than flying commercial, when factoring in all the security theater. And the same ground transportation problems exist flying commercial as flying GA.

Door to door time from home to Nashville, which is approximately a four hour flight in my aircraft, is roughly the same GA vs commercial. If it weren't a non-stop flight, we would beat the airlines by a significant amount of time. And two of us costs about the same commercial as the fuel in the Twinkie. No TSA, no schedule to keep, no parking hassles, we can carry a lot more and whatever we want. No "3 oz limit." With a twin, we can carry a lot more to our destination than you can commercially. I can carry four adults with light baggage and be a lot cheaper than commercial.

 

[Ted]

Not bad luck, just have to fly for pay sometimes when the weather is less than desirable. I could have waited another day, but chose to fly that day because the weather was certainly flyable, albeit bumpy.

Maybe my opinion comes from the way you talk about it. It seems whenever you talk about flying, it implies it's bad. I've flown in no shortage of crap and "why check the weather? You're going anyway" days myself, as you know.

 

[wabower]

Can the passengers go to the back and pee? If not, fugettaboutit.

Not bad luck, just have to fly for pay sometimes when the weather is less than desirable. I could have waited another day, but chose to fly that day because the weather was certainly flyable, albeit bumpy.

And flying GA is far less traumatic than flying commercial, when factoring in all the security theater. And the same ground transportation problems exist flying commercial as flying GA.

Door to door time from home to Nashville, which is approximately a four hour flight in my aircraft, is roughly the same GA vs commercial. If it weren't a non-stop flight, we would beat the airlines by a significant amount of time. And two of us costs about the same commercial as the fuel in the Twinkie. No TSA, no schedule to keep, no parking hassles, we can carry a lot more and whatever we want. No "3 oz limit." With a twin, we can carry a lot more to our destination than you can commercially. I can carry four adults with light baggage and be a lot cheaper than commercial.

 

[Dr. Phil]

Can the passengers go to the back and pee? If not, fugettaboutit.

You ever have to go when on an airliner in solid moderate turb with the SB sign is illuminated for 20-30 min?

Not any more fun than having to answer nature's call in a GA aircraft where the nearest airport is rarely more than 10-15 min flying time away.

Never a big deal (and I've flown a lot of long XC's with both male and female pax) as long as one doesnt pound down two extra large coffee's right before departure!

That being said however, I do carry emergency relief bags that Sporty's sells just in case!

 

[RV10flyer]

You ever have to go when on an airliner in solid moderate turb with the SB sign is illuminated for 20-30 min?

Not any more fun than having to answer nature's call in a GA aircraft where the nearest airport is rarely more than 10-15 min flying time away.

Never a big deal (and I've flown a lot of long XC's with both male and female pax) as long as one doesnt pound down two extra large coffee's right before departure!

That being said however, I do carry emergency relief bags that Sporty's sells just in case!

In the middle of Lake Michigan, looking at all of that water from 13,500'....travel johns work just fine. Not recommended for ladies.