Trip home

[flyingcheesehead]

And your travel choices are limited by weather, places (often unappealing) that have airports (often without even an outhouse), and once at your destination you may have trouble getting to somewhere interesting, if there IS anything interesting nearby, then back to the metal tube for the dreaded, sweaty-palmed flight home. After a bit, the novelty of looking down on things pales next to the constant "where would we land if the engine failed" thoughts.

It sounds like maybe your husband could use some improvement at planning missions that you're more excited about. In all things, not just aviation, a positive attitude is incredibly helpful. It doesn't sound like the positives have outweighed the negatives in your mind, and the "dreaded, sweaty-palmed flight home" doesn't sound fun at all.

With proper planning, you can make trips that avoid unappealing places, airports without facilities or ground transportation, etc. In addition, if the flying is the major portion of the trip time-wise, it's not going to be fun for you.

I would suggest that you might be more interested in a weekend getaway to somewhere with things to do, that'd be a bit farther than you'd want to go for a weekend in a car. For example, I'm in Milwaukee and I'd never go to Nashville or Memphis for the weekend in a car just to check out the music, because I'd spend the majority of the time in the car. However, in a plane it's just a few hours away and I can get lots of time there to enjoy things.

I would suggest that YOU plan a flight somewhere - Not the specific "flight planning" portion, but plan to go somewhere that's fun for YOU. That should help you have a more positive attitude about the flying portion.

Also, if fear is a component of your dislike of flying, learning more about flying will help. When flying is done right, it's very safe - If we could simply keep people from running out of gas, buzzing things at low altitudes, or flying into bad weather, it'd be safer than driving. So, maybe learn about weather, learn how to land the plane in case your husband becomes incapacitated for some reason, and maybe you'll start feeling better because you're more confident in what's going on as well.

All that seems like it imposes rigid limitations, not flexibility. You can't even talk, like you can in a car, because of the engine roar/headphone thing. Somehow, casual conversation carried on at the shouting level gets a lot more perfunctory.

You shouldn't have to "shout" over the engine - If you do, you need better headsets. I'd highly recommend a couple of pairs of ANR (active noise reduction) headsets, they are comfortable and you should be able to hear each other easily at an almost-normal conversational level.

I suppose it's "an adventure" to get stuck somewhere by weather and have stories to tell later.

Well, your stories will be better than those of the folks who are stuck in the airline terminal. And yes, it can be fun to unexpectedly discover new things because you got stuck somewhere. You'll find that people at GA airports are generally friendly and helpful and can point you in the direction of interesting things to do locally while you're waiting for weather to clear.

I do thank you for taking my questions seriously. I seriously want to get this thing somehow arranged in my heart and mind so that it can coexist with us happily. I'm getting shaky a bit because of the looming airplane purchase.

I hope we're helping... And I hope your husband appreciates the lengths to which you're going to allow him to fly, and I hope he goes to the same lengths to help you to enjoy it.

 

[danhagan]

Nice pictures. And what an awesome idea! I can go plane shopping with him! Being on the spot will give me a chance to nix any plane I don't like!

He mostly rents 172's, can fly the 182. Is instrument rated. Man, I'm gettin' the lingo down here.

My wife will handle light to moderate turbulence, and will not travel on long cross country flights. That being said, anything under 3 hours she has been ok (except for the turbulence). Solution: she flies southwest on the long trips and my son and I fly in our plane hauling the luggage. On the 3 hour and less trips that she flies, she can request we land if she needs it. To date, she had never done this in five years of flying until about 2 weeks ago in some pretty rough turbulence ... she requested we land at the big airport just 15 miles short of the home field ... so we did, no problems. Turbulence began about 2 minutes before that airport. Took the plane to the home field and returned by car to pick her up at the "big airport".

El Paso to Anaheim, due to her layover in Phoenix, we generally beat her there by about 30 minutes door to door (she lands John Wayne Airport) ... we land Fullerton about 5 minutes from Disneyland. She thinks its neat to drive right up behind the airplane to off load luggage and have no concerns about losing luggage, what's in the luggage, etc.

She enjoys evening flights in the local area.

Due to my work, I can often send her early by car or plane if she wants a few days ahead and join her after her arrival avoiding the,"your work is getting in the way of our vacation time" discussions (self employed-can't leave whenever I want all the time).

She had many of the concerns you have, but those faded and she sees the benefits of air travel (like seeing sites from the air you miss from ground or airline travel). She doesn't swim, so she declined the Catalina Island hop from Fullerton (even though we have life vests).

 

[wabower]

You ever tell the stew that one-way-or-the-other you're going to be peeing soon and its her/his call where they want you to do it?

You ever have to go when on an airliner in solid moderate turb with the SB sign is illuminated for 20-30 min?

 

[poadeleted21]

Can the passengers go to the back and pee? If not, fugettaboutit.

Sounds like hubby needs to look in to Beech 18's

 

[Aztec Driver]

Can the passengers go to the back and pee? If not, fugettaboutit.

Well, my wife now has, now that you mention it, but it certainly wasn't a pleasant experience. But she did not want to stop halfway through. That taught her not to drink coffee prior to departure.

 

[wabower]

I'll pay you $100 cash to come here and tell my wife she can't drink coffee before leaving on a trip. You, however, are responsible for the cost of suturing the contusion caused by the skillet.

Well, my wife now has, now that you mention it, but it certainly wasn't a pleasant experience. But she did not want to stop halfway through. That taught her not to drink coffee prior to departure.

 

[Becky]

Those are all really good ideas. It's hard to think about travelling separately because we do like to travel together. I wouldn't mind going to dusty little airports if we could have a nice drive there together.

I know I will have to learn more about flying/landing, to add the safety component there, but aviation is so huge, so complex, so ... RELENTLESS in its onslaught of things to remember, and then actually to DO, in constantly changing conditions, and in life-and-death circumstances, that it is overwhelming.

Imagine yourself sitting in a class or spending lots of time learning something that not only doesn't interest you, to the point of painful boredom, but that you realize is nonetheless VERY IMPORTANT, because what you learn could save your life. Yet you can only ever barely scratch the surface of its vastness, learning the minimum necessary for survival ... but knowing also that you might not be learning all you need to know. And that if you don't remember the right things, you will die.

Then imagine that this suffering has been imposed upon you by a loving spouse, who will most likely, if you ever need to use the suffocatingly boring things you are learning, be slumped dead next to you in a small plane. Say, several thousand feet in the air.

Fun and games!!!

So that's the reality that I, and probably a good number of other spouses, are dealing with, all because we love you and YOU like to fly.

And now we have to give up our morning coffee on flight days? Where does it end!!!!!????

I hope we're helping... And I hope your husband appreciates the lengths to which you're going to allow him to fly, and I hope he goes to the same lengths to help you to enjoy it.

You are helping. Thank you.

 

[bqmassey]

I know I will have to learn more about flying/landing, to add the safety component there, but aviation is so huge, so complex, so ... RELENTLESS in its onslaught of things to remember, and then actually to DO, in constantly changing conditions, and in life-and-death circumstances, that it is overwhelming.

Imagine yourself sitting in a class or spending lots of time learning something that not only doesn't interest you, to the point of painful boredom, but that you realize is nonetheless VERY IMPORTANT, because what you learn could save your life. Yet you can only ever barely scratch the surface of its vastness, learning the minimum necessary for survival ... but knowing also that you might not be learning all you need to know. And that if you don't remember the right things, you will die.

Then imagine that this suffering has been imposed upon you by a loving spouse, who will most likely, if you ever need to use the suffocatingly boring things you are learning, be slumped dead next to you in a small plane. Say, several thousand feet in the air.

Wow. You should write fiction! The amount of drama you can soak a subject with is impressive.

Flying is MUCH more mundane than you are making it out to be.

All you need to know is how to key the mic and ask for help, how to fly straight, go up or down, turn left or right, and land. It doesn't require any book knowledge.

Students often learn these few things, plus a lot more, and are able to make their first solo in under 15 hours of flight time. Sometimes under 10.

Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJMaYlMQP7w

 

[Ted]

I could probably teach you in a couple hours everything you need to know as a passenger who wants to be able to land a plane. Not a pretty landing per se, just a landing that you, the plane, and your husband will survive.

Anything else, you're overachieving.

 

[tmyers]

My wife is a great PAX. She usually just knits through tue turbulence. I have tried to get her to take the yoke so she could fly straight and level if I needed my hands free but she wants nothing to do with that.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I know I will have to learn more about flying/landing, to add the safety component there, but aviation is so huge, so complex, so ... RELENTLESS in its onslaught of things to remember, and then actually to DO, in constantly changing conditions, and in life-and-death circumstances, that it is overwhelming.

Imagine yourself sitting in a class or spending lots of time learning something that not only doesn't interest you, to the point of painful boredom, but that you realize is nonetheless VERY IMPORTANT, because what you learn could save your life.

You don't need to know everything - Just enough. And forget "sitting in a class." That'll put you to sleep, and won't really teach you the useful things. What you need to do is get in an airplane with an instructor, and learn just a few things: How to control the airplane, how to call for help, and how to land.

You probably have an idea of what the various flight controls do, you just need to learn how to hold and change altitude, airspeed, and heading (ie how to go up and down, fast and slow, and turn) and how it feels.

Calling for help can be done either on the frequency that you're already on if your husband was talking to air traffic control or the emergency frequency of 121.5, and setting the transponder to 7700 makes you light up on air traffic control radar. Both of those things can and should be written down somewhere - Then you don't have to remember them and you can make sure you're getting them right if and when the time comes.

Landing is mainly a matter of getting the airplane pointed down a runway and slowed down. Air traffic control can help you with the first part. The second is the main thing you'll want to practice in an airplane with an instructor after you learn how to control the plane.

First and foremost - Never forget that flying the airplane is the highest priority in any situation. A very wise man once said, "never drop the airplane to fly the microphone." Air traffic control can give you a LOT of help, but they can't fly the plane for you, so maintaining control of the airplane is paramount. However, most airplanes, especially ones like a Cessna 172, are very stable and will return to straight and level flight from nearly any attitude if you just let go of the controls.

Bottom line - It should take you much less time to learn enough of the basics to handle an emergency than you've already spent here talking about not wanting to fly. Plus, it should help give you an idea of what's going on so that hopefully you can enjoy the flying you do more.

Good luck, and - dare I say it - Have fun.

 

[wabower]

Why are the single guys trying to answer the married-guy questions?

 

[tmyers]

Hell, they probably know as much as us married guys. The longer I am married the stupider I become. Just ask my wife.

 

[Dr. Phil]

Becky, All I can for sure is that 99% of the time, fear is due to ignorance.

Perfect example:

WHen I was 10 yrs old my father had a serious embolism when learning scuba diving (a complete d!ck of a dive instructor contribuled to it BTW) when he panicked, held his breath, and shot to the surface from 10' down).

Having that happen to him made me very afraid of scuba for over 20 years until last summer when I just decided to give it a shot. 8 months later, I'm shaking my head wondering why I was so afraid of it.

If I was able to get over my fear of diving when my own father was badly injured doing it, you can certainly overcome your fear of flying, but like me, you will need to go out of your way to educate yourself about aviation

 

[Ghery]

Separate the financial side from the characteristics of flying.... really. If you don't, it will be practically impossible to see any value in GA flying. GA is not cost effective.

So, now that you've gotten over that GA flying has a lot of pro's involved (such as freedom, flexibility, speed over driving, speed over the airlines in some cases, not being harassed at the airport, seeing things from the air, making day trips out of things that used to be weekend trips, getting to make a detour midflight if you feel like it).

There are also con's (being more limited by weather than ground transportation or airlines, possibly having to rent a car at your destination, limited payload).

Everyone will place their value in those properties differently. Even the same person might value those properties differently when when traveling for business than they do when traveling for pleasure.

The cool thing about having a pilot's license and access to an aircraft is that it isn't your only mode of transportation. You have just as much opportunity to drive or take the airlines just as you did before your husband starting flying. Flying has simply provided you one additional option.

So personally, I think you're overdramatizing a bit. It's understandable, and I'm not criticizing you for it, but I think that you might find benefit in being a little more open-minded towards it.

Simply put, when situation is such that the pro's of flying GA outweigh the con's, fly! When that isn't the case, drive, take a bus, take a train, take an airliner, walk, bike, motorcycle, hitchhike, or whatever other means of transportation makes the most sense for the situation.

Flexibiity. That's the key. I have a quick trip across the state next month. Option - fly commercially, fly myself or drive. Right now commercial is out due to flight schedules. The day would actually be shorter driving. And it's a 5 1/2 hour drive each way. Flying is an option, but only if the weather cooperates. But, it is an additional option.

My wife is a great PAX. She usually just knits through tue turbulence. I have tried to get her to take the yoke so she could fly straight and level if I needed my hands free but she wants nothing to do with that.

Mine actually dozes off in the plane. She claims she doesn't, but her eyes are closed. On the other hand, she has a sectional in her lap and when she opens her eyes she puts her finger on the chart showing where she thinks we are and the GPS couldn't do a better job. She was nervous last year when I had to use my IR for the first time with her on board to get down through a 4000 foot thick layer. Obviously, we made it and I didn't bend anything. I enjoyed it.

 

[Becky]

Just to say thanks for these thoughtful and kind replies. I will have to decide the level of time and energy I wish to put into learning aviation basics. Knowledge does help me overcome fear. As a kid, I was terrified of lightning. When a big storm would hit, I'd go to Volume L of our old Encylopedia Brittanica and read about what lightning was and what caused it. And look at the pictures of lightning way worse than what we were getting.

 

[Ted]

Just to say thanks for these thoughtful and kind replies. I will have to decide the level of time and energy I wish to put into learning aviation basics. Knowledge does help me overcome fear. As a kid, I was terrified of lightning. When a big storm would hit, I'd go to Volume L of our old Encylopedia Brittanica and read about what lightning was and what caused it. And look at the pictures of lightning way worse than what we were getting.

So is now a bad time to point out that lightning looks really cool from the air?

At a safe distance, of course.

 

[Becky]

So is now a bad time to point out that lightning looks really cool from the air?

At a safe distance, of course.

We live near the airport and I would SWEAR the regional jets take off IN lightning storms!!!! My husband says they are a "safe distance" from the lightning, but it sure doesn't look like it!!!!

If I were flying, I would leave MUCH larger distances between me and storm cells.

Or wait for the storm to pass ENTIRELY.

I long for the days when weather was just ... weather. You really didn't have to consider it much, except for its entertainment value.

 

[Headspace]

We live near the airport and I would SWEAR the regional jets take off IN lightning storms!!!! My husband says they are a "safe distance" from the lightning, but it sure doesn't look like it!!!!

These guys have a strikefinder in the plane that lets them know, in real time, where the lightning is. A lot of them have onboard radar (realtime weather), ADS-B weather (delayed, but still useful) and they're on the horn with ATC who also has radar.

That's why you see scheduled carriers taking off and landing right before/after storms--they know where the storm is and where it's going. There's a bunch of layered apparatus in the system that you don't see that is getting used to provide a picture of the weather to crews.

The less "layers" you have on, the more of a buffer you want between you and the weather for safety. It also helps that part 121 aircrew do this kind of thing all day, every day. The really mindblowing thing about it isn't that they can do it at all, but that they can do it on a schedule.

 

[gismo]

I know I will have to learn more about flying/landing, to add the safety component there, but aviation is so huge, so complex, so ... RELENTLESS in its onslaught of things to remember, and then actually to DO, in constantly changing conditions, and in life-and-death circumstances, that it is overwhelming.

I'm not sure I agree that there's all that much to learn in order to understand and recognize the risks.

There are some potentially unsafe things I think you can easily monitor that will go a long way towards avoiding an unsafe condition as a passenger in a private airplane.

#1 Flying in low visibility and/or clouds unless the pilot is instrument rated and competent at this. You should be able to clearly see the ground at least 5 miles ahead and off to the sides unless the above qualifications are met. Determining a pilot's competency might be difficult but regular practice (at least every month or two) flying in clouds or with a "hood" is a pretty good indicator.

#2 Stretching fuel. Believe it or not, running out of gas is high on the list of accident causes. Quite often this happens just a few miles short of the destination. Savvy pilots plan to have at least an hour's worth of fuel (typically 12-15 gallons) in the tanks when they land and will choose to stop short of the intended destination if it looks like they'd need to dip into that hour's worth to get where they originally intended to go.

#3 Buzzing. It can be very tempting to fly low to attract attention near a place with people you know on the ground and this has killed a lot of pilots and their passengers. I won't go into the details of why this is usually unsafe but if your pilot remains at least 1000 ft above the ground except when landing and taking off this risk is eliminated.

#4 Scud running. This is what some pilots do when the clouds are low and they aren't rated for or comfortable flying in clouds. These days there are so many towers sticking up into the air that it's all too easy to blunder into one. The risk goes up many fold if the visibility is poor as well which often happens when the clouds are low. A typical scenario is taking off on a trip home under clear skies or high clouds and then finding the bottoms of the clouds dropping further and further as you proceed towards the destination. Often the pilot engages in wishfully thinking that conditions will improve soon or that they won't get any worse before reaching the home drome. Legally in most areas you must be at least 500 ft below the clouds and if the area is more built up than farmland you also have to be at least 1000 ft above the ground. That means the minimum "ceiling" (distance from ground to clouds) is 1500 ft, but a better number is twice that. Five hundred feet is about 1/10 of a mile or the length of a city block.

If you learn nothing more than how to recognize these scenarios and voice your objection to being a part of any of them, you will have reduced the chances for mishap by as much as 90%.

 

[Ted]

We live near the airport and I would SWEAR the regional jets take off IN lightning storms!!!! My husband says they are a "safe distance" from the lightning, but it sure doesn't look like it!!!!

If I were flying, I would leave MUCH larger distances between me and storm cells.

Or wait for the storm to pass ENTIRELY.

I long for the days when weather was just ... weather. You really didn't have to consider it much, except for its entertainment value.

If I may, I'd like to politely note that you don't have much of an experience level to draw from on what constitutes a safe distance. But airline pilots, flight ops, etc do.

I've taken off when I can see a storm approaching, likely about 5 miles away. It's coming towards me quickly and may be there in 5 minutes. By 5 minutes, I'll be 15+ miles away, and that distance gets bigger fast. In reality storms can be very easy to deal with, assuming one has a little training, experience, and equipment.

 

[Bill Watson]

So the forecast looks terrible for a non deiced ship from BNA to LNS. If I read the Skew-T diagrams correctly, though, 9000 0r 7000 looks clear.

What do you guys think?

Upon closer examination, the skew-t's looked pretty miserable. As time progressed, they got worse, so I scrubbed the plan. Guess we'll spend another couple of days with the granddaughter and new grandson. Sure wish I had the Aerostar with the ice protection. Oh well, Twinkie lives to serve another day.

Late to the party, and the great thread, but have to share.

I flew on the 17th - Home (near KRDU) to KIPT for Lycoming engine school.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N215TG/history/20130317/1500Z/8NC8/KIPT
Back story is that I need to be there for an 8am class on the 19th. Plan was to arrive on the 18th. The weather was clearly going to be no-go on the 18th but the 17th looked possible. I really didn't want to drive my 1985 mini-van up there and screw up several side trips so I was motivated.

Even though I used to look at skew-Ts back in my glider days I can't decipher them now. But the icing airmet was for for 8,000 and above even though freezing temps reached lower. It also mentioned ice associated with any convective areas. Ceilings along the route were in the 800' and up range. My plan was to try it around midday but when I looked carefully at all the weather resources, an early start looked like it would match up with a weak spot in the stationary front. I was prepared to turn around and go home knowing I could time to drive up on the 18th. It was worth a go and a look.

I filed for 5,000 and got in the soup at 2,000. It was 34F and all was good until reaching the front. I was nicely lined up with what looked like it's thinnest part per Nexrad but there looked like there was a weak but discernible convective area embedded in it more or less on my course. I also noticed that outside the Nexrad green/yellow areas, the moisture was sparse enough to occasionally see around. There even seemed to be a clearer layer just above my altitude. I talked to FSS, made a Pirep but didn't get any help.

On one hand, I could plunge ahead at 5,000 and 34F counting on the temp to stay above freezing. But glimpses of a clear layer above along with the "ice in convective areas" forecast gave me a plan. I requested a climb to 7,000 and a 20 degree deviation to the west for weather. The controller seemed puzzled because he probably wasn't seeing anything meaningful and he was aware that there was ice above. Maybe he was just wondering why an experimental RV was droning around in a stationary front in the first place.

As I climbed, the temperature dropped to below freezing as expected and I started picking up some very light rime. But as I approached 7,000, there was a 'clear' layer, or at least a dry layer with a solid overcast and a lumpy undercast. Even though it was below freezing, I could see that I didn't want to be lower (no visibility at all) and I certainly didn't want to be higher - solid icing there for sure.

I could now see out the window and on Nexrad where the small but distinct convective lump was and I requested deviations to skirt it. When I got close, I started picking up rime again but I could already 'see' that in 10 minutes or so I would be past it. In 15 minutes I broke out into clear with a scattered layer below.

Was making the flight a good decision? Well, it was fun as hell. While I fly with my wife 95% of the time, she didn't fly this particular leg and that was a good thing. She's a great passenger (soloed in gliders) in all conditions but I enjoyed playing the lone strategizer on this one. The best part was making the turn and climb decision based on conditions in the air, and having them work out so well.

I had to hang around Williamsport PA for an extra day but this was a place my Dad used to take us camping and fishing as a kid, so that was nostalgically enjoyable.

To my perverse pleasure, a fellow student in the class arrived late on the 19th. He had traveled from Paris to Williamsport via Phillie. On the 18th, he boarded a plane for the last 20 minute leg from Phillie to Williamsport. They apparently flew a miss at Williamsport and had to return to Phillie to await a flight on the 19th. I think it took him 4 days to make the whole trip!

So, the 18th would not have been possible and the 17th worked like a charm. As a result, I was able to leave the first week of class on Friday and fly down to Pittsburgh to visit my Mom. I flew back on Sunday in time to not see Tiger win the Bayhill because of a rain delay.

After 3 more days of a great class, I flew down to Phillie's KPNE to meet my wife who took the train from NYC. There we hooked up with an elderly but spry cousin and my wife's soon to graduate nephew for lunch. After congratulations and a graduation gift, we had cookies and coffee in Atlantic's FBO before some screwed up clearances and rapid fire vectors over Phillie on the way home to a night grass landing in Durham. (take a close look at the Phillie portion of this plot)
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N215TG/history/20130327/2300Z/KPNE/8NC8

It could not have been more fun or as productive a couple of weeks done any other way than in our RV10.