Trim on final?

rene86mx

rene86mx

Pre-takeoff checklist
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rene86mx
Hi,

I´m having issues with my landings: too high and too fast are my most common mistakes.

Last weekend on my of my touch and goes I felt the airplane too heavy while ascending.

I think that I trimmed nose down more than needed, corrected and ascended normally.

My main question is: do you guys trim while on base or final?

Thanks
 
Yes... and search for other threads on this topic. They are here.
 
Change power, trim the forces away so the plane flies hands off where you want it to go.

Change attitude, trim the forces away so the plane flies hands off where you want it to go.

If you let go of the yoke and the plane turns, climbs or descends, your trim isn't properly set. It makes flying much more relaxing when you aren't wrestling the plane through the sky.
 
Every power change requires a trim change. Do I trim on final? Yes I do.
 
That was one of the first things my instructor drilled me on. Always trim on final!
Pretty overwhelmed when I was first beginning, and forgot that one a lot, so I came up with a little pneumonic for my approaches that helped me stay focused on the tasks. I still use it some actually. Especially if it has been a while since I've flown.
AIRCRAFT
A - Assess (winds, traffic, etc)
I - Intention (make decisions, radio calls)
R - Relax (maybe grab a milky way... I like those. Or check facebook) Kidding, that's what my CFI is doing
---then
C - Carb heat
R - RPM (reduce)
A - Airspeed (down to Vfe)
F - Flaps (10, 20, etc.)
T - Trim (on final)

Works pretty good until the melted chocolate and caramel are gumming up the throttle and we're sinking like hell. Then it's just sort of a free for all....trimming be damned.

You can probably check my CFI's facebook for postings like- 'this idiot is going to kill us', or 'caramel spider webs are really sticky'
 
For a 172 or a taper wing PA-28 when abeam your touchdown spot on the downwind set power and set flaps to the first notch. Trim for on speed 10 knots higher than desired final speed. You should see about 400 fpm down. Go to the second notch of flaps as you turn base and you will slow about 5 knots and still be about 400 fpm. It won’t need much trim. Go to flaps 30 (or last notch on the Piper) on the turn to final and you should be on speed with little to no trim required. Adjust power to set touchdown point. Now you you should be set up nicely to round out and land. Wind will cause some adjustments. Once ya get the power setting figured out for your aircraft weight the method is very consistent.

As always, everyone will argue about it. In other words YMWV.
 
Gotta luv the simple answers to a simple question. Add me to the list of the yesses, the yups and the yeps. Think of trim as basic an aircraft control as aileron, elevator and rudder. It's there for a reason.
 
And if I run out of trim? Heaven help the fool, right? Trim is a tool to relieve effort. You can control airspeed properly without it. Some guys with jackscrew trim purposely adjust trim one way or the other to change how the plane flies slow even though it increases control pressure. Different strokes.
 
Stewartb said:
And if I run out of trim? Heaven help the fool, right? Trim is a tool to relieve effort. You can control airspeed properly without it. Some guys with jackscrew trim purposely adjust trim one way or the other to change how the plane flies slow even though it increases control pressure. Different strokes.
Click to expand...

Soft field takeoff in the Mooney I prefer to trim full nose up instead of takeoff trim. It helps relieve pressure and it's easier to hold the yoke fully back during the takeoff run. That said, once off the ground it takes Popeye arms to keep the nose down so you have to quickly trim off the pressure.

Edit: On a precision approach I sometimes like to trim such that I need a little forward pressure on the yoke to stay on the GS. Thus, if I'm momentarily distracted for some reason and let up, the resulting error is towards the side of more terrain clearance.
 
Ryanb said:
Every power change requires a trim change. Do I trim on final? Yes I do.
Click to expand...
Trim for speed, power for descent rate, at least in a lot of planes. If I want to descend faster or slower but I'm on speed, I don't require a trim change.
 
If you want to land a Comanche with any semblance of control you MUST trim on final otherwise its just too heavy to finesse. so YES trim on final
 
FastEddieB said:
Well, I teach that trim is only used to eliminate/neutralize control pressures, and never to “fly” the plane.

If that’s what you were implying above.
Click to expand...
Yes, use the yoke to attain desired airspeed, trim for that airspeed, then adjust throttle for desired descent rate. Give or take...
 
trim and crank. why does it seem like this thread has gone full double entendre?
 
My aircraft is really trim happy. Without it I can’t overcome the stick forces without difficulty. Like everyone is saying, trim is like voting. Don’t be afraid to do it early and often.
 
FastEddieB said:
Well, I teach that trim is only used to eliminate/neutralize control pressures, and never to “fly” the plane.

If that’s what you were implying above.
Click to expand...
Just to clarify...how do you teach this in regard to transitioning from cruise to descent at constant airspeed?
 
Stewartb said:
And if I run out of trim? Heaven help the fool, right? Trim is a tool to relieve effort. You can control airspeed properly without it. Some guys with jackscrew trim purposely adjust trim one way or the other to change how the plane flies slow even though it increases control pressure. Different strokes.
Click to expand...
I've heard of folk who deliberately trim to needing a little forward pressure on final in C182's because of their nose heavy tendency
 
luvflyin said:
I've heard of folk who deliberately trim to needing a little forward pressure on final in C182's because of their nose heavy tendency
Click to expand...

Thats what I was taught...even in the 172.
Trim enough to need a little forward pressure for descent. Helps maintain flare attitude during touchdown.
I agree.....up to a point, that is.
 
rene86mx said:
Hi,

I´m having issues with my landings: too high and too fast are my most common mistakes.

Last weekend on my of my touch and goes I felt the airplane too heavy while ascending.

I think that I trimmed nose down more than needed, corrected and ascended normally.

My main question is: do you guys trim while on base or final?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Trim to relieve stick pressure, no matter what you are doing. The concept of trimming nose up or down is foreign to me. As I told my students, if you take your hands off of the yoke at any time there should not be any pitch change.

Bob
 
steingar said:
Why would you want to do that? I like coming down fast, get some of that energy back from the climb.
Click to expand...
Because I'm doing the speed limit (airspace or airplane) already.

I can't begin to count the number of times I've seen guys surprised because they trimmed nose down for the descent and somehow ended up at 265 knots below 10,000 feet or above the barber pole at altitude.
 
On the 182 (sure seems nose heavy) I think I adjust the elevator trim every time there is a power change. So its being adjusted on downwind, base, turning final and I always give last couple good cranks about 150ft before crossing the numbers. I could not image landing without it. Go arounds can require significant forward yoke pressure when in the final landing trim setting.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Just to clarify...how do you teach this in regard to transitioning from cruise to descent at constant airspeed?
Click to expand...

Stipulated:

1) A skilled pilot can certainly anticipate the need for trim.

2) It is actually possible to “fly the trim”. Autopilots do it all the time. Perhaps some good pilots do as well.

But it can be a bad habit. I think most instrument instructors can verify the following...

Student sees he or she is 50’ high, and rather than lower the nose directly gives a little nose down trim. Then, distracted, the plane overshoots the desired altitude, and rather than positively raising the nose gives it a little nose up trim, and so on in a repeated cycle. That’s when it’s time to emphasize first achieve your desired pitch attitude, and only then trim out the pressure.

At least that’s how I was taught, and went on to teach.
 
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