Transferring title upon death of airplane owner

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drotto

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drotto
Unfortunately, my father just passed away and he was the only owner and registered title holder on the family airplane. I am the only other person who uses the aircraft, and I am listed and insured on that plane on his insurance policy.

I am 99.9% sure that the plane was owned outright. So as the estate moves forward, I need to know how transfer of title occurs with aircraft? How long can the plane be used without transfer of title? And really anything else useful that people may want to add.

Thanks for any help.

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The airplane is property of the estate. As such, it is the job of the executor to dispose of the property. The executor just signs transfer over to you, like they had sold it. If you are the executor, then you are in both roles, but wearing different hats. I would sign the "seller" section with <your name>, executor for the estate of <father's name>.

There are obviously other steps to take in terms of placing a valuation on it for fair distribution among the heirs and for taxation purposes. If you're confused, engage with a lawyer to help.
 
Sorry to hear about your father. Hope he had a long, happy life.

Short answer: It is much less and FAA issue than a state law issue. The FAA Registry records title; state law control who has ownership. If the airplane was owned in his name alone, it "belongs" to whomever state law says has control of the asset (that's a hint whom to talk to). That may be the personal representative of the estate or an individual if the state has some form of informal inheritance of title property.

Edit: just saw @bflynn's response. Spot on.
 
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Was there a will leaving the plane to you? Or at least a will describing how the estate will be divided up and giving an executor authority to make decisions? Otherwise, it may need to go through probate and the State will take their share.
 
JOhnH said:
Was there a will leaving the plane to you? Or at least a will describing how the estate will be divided up and giving an executor authority to make decisions? Otherwise, it may need to go through probate and the State will take their share.
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I am listed as secondary executor his wife ( my stepmother) is listed as primary. The will was written before he purchased the plane and therefor it is not mentioned. There are only two beneficiaries listed in the will, my stepmother and myself. So the two of us have the sole power and only claim to anything within the estate.

My stepmother is aware that he wanted me to have the plane, and it has always been assumed I would be getting it once he passed away.

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drotto said:
I am listed as secondary executor his wife ( my stepmother) is listed as primary. The will was written before he purchased the plane and therefor it is not mentioned.
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...which probably makes no difference in terms what the will does with it. You really need to speak with a lawyer, even it it's just a consultation to explain how this works in your grandfather's state. Not SGOTI.
 
midlifeflyer said:
...which probably makes no difference in terms what the will does with it. You really need to speak with a lawyer, even it it's just a consultation to explain how this works in your grandfather's state. Not SGOTI.
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We will be meeting with a lawer soon, we just have not set up a date yet. I was aware of how title transfers work with regards to cars, but was not sure if it differs for planes. In my state the executor sings papers allowing transfer of title which must be done in person at motor vehicles. Technically for cars the transfer must be done within a certain amount of time ( I think it is 30 days) or the vehicle can not be legally operated.

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first, sorry for your loss. the biggest question mark is what is the relationship with your step mother? none of us need to know, but if it is good it will just be a matter of the two of you getting the lawyer to file everything the state requires to settle everything the way you two want it. if it is not good, then it could involve a couple of lawyers.

bob
 
There are provisions in the Uniform Probate Code and likely every other variety of probate law that allow the will beneficiaries to make a private agreement on how to distribute the estate, regardless of the will. You're on the right track by going to talk to a lawyer, who can help you dot the I's and cross the T's to get this done right. The actual title transfer is, as far as I can tell, the same as it would be for a car. My suggestion would be to get the FAA forms (and your state's forms if they have any) and bring them when you meet with the lawyer. That way you don't have to pay him for time digging them up if he is unfamiliar with the airplane title transfer process.
 
unsafervguy said:
first, sorry for your loss. the biggest question mark is what is the relationship with your step mother? none of us need to know, but if it is good it will just be a matter of the two of you getting the lawyer to file everything the state requires to settle everything the way you two want it. if it is not good, then it could involve a couple of lawyers.

bob
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Luckily we are on very good terms, and have been 100% in sync with items dealing with his passing so far.

Thanks everyone for their condolences.

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I had to do a bunch of stuff like this not long ago but not for an aircraft.

You'll probably have some paperwork to deal with from the probate court. They will give you some papers you'll have to submit with every change of ownership request. Most likely you'll have to change the ownership of the airplane to "The estate of...." then change ownership to yourself. The lawyer should be able to explain it and give you specifics for the state you're in. Hopefully you don't have to deal with getting an appraisal or anything like that.
 
d, condolences and I hope it works out for you.

All, this is a wake up call to have a will, and an up to date one at that, if you don't want to unduly burden your survivors. They'll have enough to deal with.
 
actually, the executor cannot just sell the airplane. The will controls who gets the property. If the aircraft is not listed as a specific bequest, then it goes to the remaindermen, and only THEY control what happens to it.

If your mother in law is listed as executor only SHE can act - you are not listed a co-executor - only as secondary in the case she declines to act.

Moreover, you or she have no authority to sell the aircraft or any other asset until you or she is/are certified by the court as executor, unless its a very small probate estate.

As to use of the aircraft, anyone can use the aircraft provided they have the permission [and it should be written] of the appointed and certified executor.

None of this is simple - and for insurance purposes you need to read the policy to see if in operation coverage lapses at death. . . .

there a million issues around this- and an internet forum is bad place to get advice -
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
don't call OKC .....they will be of little help on this. :rolleyes:
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Unless you're concerned about liens in which case a title search or whatever they call it might be in order... AOPA has a title search service in OKC.


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It sounds like you're on top of this. I believe the first part of your answer will be found with FAA Form 8050-2, which acts as a bill of sale documenting the ownership transfer. With that in hand, you should be able to submit an aircraft registration in your name. I think the whole thing can probably be done very quickly if you just do the legwork. The FSDO can probably answer questions, it's will be like a sale.

As far as flying it when owned by the estate, I don't think anyone would care. I'm sure you remember to check emotions before flying.

I am sorry about your father, I lost mine 4 years ago. Eventually the pain lessens as you learn to deal with his passing, but I don't think it ever fully goes away. You just get better at living with it.
 
bflynn said:
It sounds like you're on top of this. I believe the first part of your answer will be found with FAA Form 8050-2, which acts as a bill of sale documenting the ownership transfer. With that in hand, you should be able to submit an aircraft registration in your name. I think the whole thing can probably be done very quickly if you just do the legwork. The FSDO can probably answer questions, it's will be like a sale.
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The FSDO perhaps can answer questions about how the forms are filled out and the proper forms and words are used; that's all the FAA cares about. Anything more - like who is actually legally entitled to do what with the airplane, including the authority to sell or transfer it - would be far beyond their authority.

The FAA records ownership based on the paperwork presented; the FAA does not determine ownership. Here's the regulatory language:

...registration is not evidence of ownership of aircraft in any proceeding in which ownership by a particular person is in issue. The FAA does not issue any certificate of ownership or endorse any information with respect to ownership on a Certificate of Aircraft Registration, AC Form 8050-3. The FAA issues a Certificate of Aircraft Registration, AC Form 8050-3 to the person who appears to be the owner on the basis of the evidence of ownership submitted pursuant to § 47.11 with the Aircraft Registration Application, or recorded at the FAA Aircraft Registry.
 
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drotto said:
We will be meeting with a lawer soon, we just have not set up a date yet. I was aware of how title transfers work with regards to cars, but was not sure if it differs for planes. In my state the executor sings papers allowing transfer of title which must be done in person at motor vehicles. Technically for cars the transfer must be done within a certain amount of time ( I think it is 30 days) or the vehicle can not be legally operated.

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Technically also true for aircraft. It's in FAR 47.41(a)(4).
 
comanchepilot said:
actually, the executor cannot just sell the airplane. The will controls who gets the property. If the aircraft is not listed as a specific bequest, then it goes to the remaindermen, and only THEY control what happens to it.

If your mother in law is listed as executor only SHE can act - you are not listed a co-executor - only as secondary in the case she declines to act.

Moreover, you or she have no authority to sell the aircraft or any other asset until you or she is/are certified by the court as executor, unless its a very small probate estate.

As to use of the aircraft, anyone can use the aircraft provided they have the permission [and it should be written] of the appointed and certified executor.

None of this is simple - and for insurance purposes you need to read the policy to see if in operation coverage lapses at death. . . .

there a million issues around this- and an internet forum is bad place to get advice -
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Except that you just gave him some good advice.
Correct me if I am wrong, you you are an attorney; correct?
 
JOhnH said:
Except that you just gave him some good advice.
Correct me if I am wrong, you you are an attorney; correct?
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Yes I am . . . as for advice - well - its just a rambling opinion. To stay on the safe side. Anyone can have an opinion, though some are better than others.

There is an order to how things have to happen. That order should be followed. If it is not, other lawyers can object that the proper process was not followed. This gets you in trouble and costs you money.

That all said, if ONLY the wife is the remainder 'person,' and no other person takes in the will [since she is surviving] and she consents - then all is well. Just remember, if it is not in writing, it did not happen!
 
Follow Comanche Pilots advice. Only your stepmother can act but you can help. The probate court will need to appoint the executor, legal notices published for anyone your father may owe to file a claim against the estate, and probate court approval of the final disbursement of the estate.

I believe the FAA has an extra form for selling of an aircraft from an estate, to include registration of the executor as the person who can legally transfer the title.
 
+5 on sympathy for your loss

While you're following Comanche's advice on the title transfer, make a call to the insurance company and tell them what's happened. I don't know whether being a named pilot on the policy continues the policy after the insured party is deceased. I'd want that clarified before flying. Of course, if the plane is titled to an LLC this point in moot.
 
Ravioli said:
+5 on sympathy for your loss

While you're following Comanche's advice on the title transfer, make a call to the insurance company and tell them what's happened. I don't know whether being a named pilot on the policy continues the policy after the insured party is deceased. I'd want that clarified before flying. Of course, if the plane is titled to an LLC this point in moot.
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If its titled to an LLC the death of the owners is irrelevant to the existence of the LLC or the transfer of the aircraft. Then another step is added to the process if the deceased owned a majority share in the LLC . . .
 
Drotto, sorry for your loss. I can't add anything to this thread as it seems that Joe has covered it well.

As a side note, if your mom and dad are still with us, call them and tell them you love them. My mom is 75, step dad is 72. They're in Arkansas, I'm in Arizona. This thread was a reminder for me.
 
I keep a singed faa bill of sale ,not dated . in my "when I am dead" file folder
 
BUMP to follow on to this discussion:

I spoke with an examiner in the registration branch in OKC and was advised to complete the heir-at-law form along with an 8050-1. This will result in the issuance of a new registration.

There is a lot of mention in this thread of title. Is there actually a specific title issued for a GA aircraft? As I understand it, the answer is no. Quoted from above, "...registration is not evidence of ownership of aircraft in any proceeding in which ownership by a particular person is in issue. The FAA does not issue any certificate of ownership or endorse any information with respect to ownership on a Certificate of Aircraft Registration, AC Form 8050-3. The FAA issues a Certificate of Aircraft Registration, AC Form 8050-3 to the person who appears to be the owner on the basis of the evidence of ownership submitted pursuant to § 47.11 with the Aircraft Registration Application, or recorded at the FAA Aircraft Registry..."

Given the above statement, how is actual legal ownership established? Or to pose a hypothetical, what document is a lien applied to in the case of a financed aircraft?

Thanks.
 
paflyer said:
d, condolences and I hope it works out for you.

All, this is a wake up call to have a will, and an up to date one at that, if you don't want to unduly burden your survivors. They'll have enough to deal with.
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Dad put everything into a trust, co-owned by the two of us. He died, (20 yrs ago), I got the death certificate (when I got to Phoenix) and no further action needed. Of course he left instructions to me, what to do with everything ($$$$ to nieces and nephews) but it made life so simple. Fortunate, but I would guess that this was a very rare situation.
 
I also extend my condolences. Death of a parent hits so hard, even if you can see it coming for some time.

paflyer said:
All, this is a wake up call to have a will, and an up to date one at that, if you don't want to unduly burden your survivors. They'll have enough to deal with.
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I could not agree more. I'm entering year No. 4 (!) of the probate process with my mother's estate, part of which is due to CA's probate courts being messed up, and part from COVID bringing things to a standstill. It's very frustrating as we're 90-95 percent through the process. So hard as every time I talk to the attorney, it brings the grief of her death to the surface again.

It's possible that she had a will or trust, which would've been kept in a safe in the house. But that safe was stolen in a burglary, and it was the only thing taken...very precisely targeted. We think it was an inside job, as the cleaning lady was aware of the safe's location.

I need to make a will myself, but at least I have assigned a beneficiary to my 401(k) and some other assets. In the event of my death, the beneficiary can simply claim the assets without a will being in place, and it's not subject to probate.
 
pmanton said:
My wife has signed bill of sales for both my planes. If I die all she'll have to do is date them.
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Do you do a new one every time AC 8050-2 changes editions? (the current one exp 03/31/2021)
 
murphey said:
Dad put everything into a trust, co-owned by the two of us. He died, (20 yrs ago), I got the death certificate (when I got to Phoenix) and no further action needed. Of course he left instructions to me, what to do with everything ($$$$ to nieces and nephews) but it made life so simple. Fortunate, but I would guess that this was a very rare situation.
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If it's constructed properly and your state allows, a trust can avoid a lot of the problems of probate. That assumes, of course, that the trust is properly funded and that the assets are properly titled in the name of the trust (for some, an LLC might be better. A good estate planning attorney is well worth the cost.
 
FL Pilot said:
Is there actually a specific title issued for a GA aircraft?
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No.
FL Pilot said:
how is actual legal ownership established?
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Through the documented chain of ownership per FAA guidance. Here's one guidance:
https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/media/8050-94.pdf
FL Pilot said:
what document is a lien applied to in the case of a financed aircraft?
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On the FAA side, they only record a lien against an aircraft registration provided the state allows lien recording.
https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certif...ation/aircraft_registry/record_aircraft_lien/
 
My dad owned our 172 outright, it's registered in the name of a flying club. When he passed, my mother gave the airplane to my 2 brothers, our sister, and me. We just changed the address of the flying club on the registration to the "new" president's, mine, and moved on. This was 6 1/2 years ago.
 
when my father passed a couple of years ago both his airplanes were in the family trust. they were registered to the trust with my father and mother as trustees. all the FAA wanted was a copy of the succesorship section of the trust, a bill of sale signed by my mother and the signature block of my fathers name filled in as deceased, and a original copy of the death certificate. I just called the FAA in OK and told them how it was registered, and asked what I needed, they walked me through it. it was all really easy.
 
wsuffa said:
If it's constructed properly and your state allows, a trust can avoid a lot of the problems of probate. That assumes, of course, that the trust is properly funded and that the assets are properly titled in the name of the trust (for some, an LLC might be better. A good estate planning attorney is well worth the cost.
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What are the "problems" with probate? I've been the executor/administrator of 4 estates and have found the probate process to be fairly straightforward.
 
kyleb said:
What are the "problems" with probate? I've been the executor/administrator of 4 estates and have found the probate process to be fairly straightforward.
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Time (depending on the estate it can take a lot of time to probate, tying assets up for a long period), costs (court costs, executor costs, legal costs for complex estates and court filings, and other costs, and the time value of the assets), and lack of privacy (probate is a public court process). State laws play a role, too.

Those may or may not be an issue for you or for many estates, but they can be a problem for many. However, for a small, simple estate it may not be an issue - which is why one needs to look at all the factors to make a decision.

Again, YMMV.
 
One thing I didn’t see mentioned, and not a big deal, but necessary, is that $5 is required for each legal transfer. If a two step process, $10.
 
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