Traffic Pattern Requirements

haskell99 said:
§91.126 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class G airspace.
(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized or required, each person operating an aircraft on or in the vicinity of an airport in a Class G airspace area must comply with the requirements of this section.

(b) Direction of turns. When approaching to land at an airport without an operating control tower in Class G airspace—

(1) Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left.
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This makes it unlawful to turn from the 45 entry to downwind . . .
 
The reg is talking about turns in the pattern, NOT entering the pattern. Use common sense.
 
Witmo said:
My airfield lacks any visual markings but right traffic to 17 is depicted on the sectional and in the AFD. What would the law say in this case?
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I just had another thought about this: Maybe the A/FD entry would trigger the "Unless otherwise authorized or required" exception in 91.126.

It does seem like a safety issue though, to have right traffic specified in the directory but not via visual markings.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
The reg is talking about turns in the pattern, NOT entering the pattern. Use common sense.
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To paraphrase WWII Admiral Chester Nimitz: 'On PoA, common sense is an uncommon virtue.'

Fly left patterns my friends.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
The reg is talking about turns in the pattern, NOT entering the pattern. Use common sense.
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I know this is a long thread and easy to overlook that which has already been posted. I will merely point out that the word "pattern" doesn't appear in the regulation. It uses the word "vicinity". Why would your common sense place a 45 degree right turn to downwind outside the "vicinity" of the airport while the turns to crosswind, downwind, base, and final are inside the vicinity? My own, perhaps flawed, common sense places all five turns in the vicinity of the airport. My own common sense, informed by all other facts, tells me the regulation was improperly constructed and of dubious pedigree. That it leaves most other categories of aircraft besides airplanes to engage in Brownian motion, subject only to see and avoid, also doesn't make sense to my common sense.

We should use common sense to stay safe - but I do not believe all the regulations were written using common sense.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
The reg is talking about turns in the pattern, NOT entering the pattern. Use common sense.
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Please cite the part of the reg which says what you think it's talking about, because that's not the way the rule is written.

My point, however, is that the reg is another example of sloppy writing and half-thought-out rulemaking. You and I both know what the INTENT was, but the way it is WRITTEN says something else.
 
SoloEqs said:
Where does the reg specify that it is limited to aircraft already in the pattern?
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It doesn't.

Where in the reg does it give any identifiable boundary between must-turn-left and can-turn-right for a plane coming to the airport?
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It doesn't.

There are several other items in writing by the FAA which support my assertion. You can go ahead and look for them.
 
I recall from many years ago being taught not to call "Left" in pattern radio calls, since it's implied. Only call "Right" traffic calls. Now I can't confirm if I was taught wrong way back when or not. Can't find it anywhere in the books or online. I have my helicopter checkride tomorrow and want to get it right. Of course calling "left" is easy enough, but I have a developed a habit to only call "right". I may forget and want coverage if I'm correct. Supposed to be a tough Examiner.
 
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cburg said:
I recall from many years ago being taught not to call "Left" in pattern radio calls, since it's implied. Only call "Right" traffic calls.
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I've never heard that.

While just calling "base" would imply left base, it still leaves other pilots being forced to assume you are a knowledgable pilot flying the correct pattern.

Virtually all the radio call I hear include the direction and I can't think of a good reason not to.
 
Heck, I'll even throw in a left final or right final sometimes :D
 
cburg said:
I recall from many years ago being taught not to call "Left" in pattern radio calls, since it's implied. Only call "Right" traffic calls.
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Are you sure they didn't say not to call "left FINAL"?

Definitely include "left" or "right" for crosswind, downwind, and base legs.
 
Makes no sense to me. If you are the guys that does the right thing, why add another procedure confirming that you're following the published procedure?

Do the right thing. Expect the other guy to do the right thing. Look out for the idiot that doesn't know or care what the right thing is.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Makes no sense to me. If you are the guys that does the right thing, why add another procedure confirming that you're following the published procedure?

Do the right thing. Expect the other guy to do the right thing. Look out for the idiot that doesn't know or care what the right thing is.
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Don't you mean "the left thing"?

<Ducks and runs....>
 
cburg said:
I recall from many years ago being taught not to call "Left" in pattern radio calls, since it's implied. Only call "Right" traffic calls. Now I can't confirm if I was taught wrong way back when or not. Can't find it anywhere in the books or online. I have my helicopter checkride tomorrow and want to get it right. Of course calling "left" is easy enough, but I have a developed a habit to only call "right". I may forget and want coverage if I'm correct. Supposed to be a tough Examiner.
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Welcome to PoA. How did the checkride go?

Good question. I was taught to specify "Left" (and "Right"), but to avoid saying "Midfield". So, it would be "Left Downwind 34" even though Tower had asked, "Report Midfield."
 
AuntPeggy said:
Welcome to PoA. How did the checkride go?

Good question. I was taught to specify "Left" (and "Right"), but to avoid saying "Midfield". So, it would be "Left Downwind 34" even though Tower had asked, "Report Midfield."
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Hmmmmm...

The tower requested you call "midfield" and you seem to think it is OK to override his/her request....:dunno:......:mad2:..:mad2:
 
My home base, Copperhill, TN (1A3) has notamed right traffic for RWY 20, and the wind direction indicator shows that.

But WingXPro7 shows left traffic for RWY20, and I think at least one other app does as well.

If someone calls "base" for 20, there remains some uncertainty about whether they got the message or not.

In the absence of a compelling reason not to (which I've yet to hear), I hold that one should always include the direction of the pattern being flown when making position reports in the pattern.

And Aunt Peggy, what was the rationale for NOT reporting "midfield" when so requested? Sound odd.
 
N801BH said:
Hmmmmm...

The tower requested you call "midfield" and you seem to think it is OK to override his/her request....:dunno:......:mad2:..:mad2:
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Midfield is where Tower wants the report, not the words.

ATC: "Aircraft, say altitude."
Aircraft: "Altitude."
ATC: "Aircraft, say airspeed."
Aircraft: "Airspeed."
Tower: "Aircraft, say cancel IFR."
Aircraft: "Eight thousand feet. One hundred fifty indicated."
 
FastEddieB said:
My home base, Copperhill, TN (1A3) has notamed right traffic for RWY 20, and the wind direction indicator shows that.

But WingXPro7 shows left traffic for RWY20, and I think at least one other app does as well.

If someone calls "base" for 20, there remains some uncertainty about whether they got the message or not.

In the absence of a compelling reason not to (which I've yet to hear), I hold that one should always include the direction of the pattern being flown when making position reports in the pattern.

And Aunt Peggy, what was the rationale for NOT reporting "midfield" when so requested? Sound odd.
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"Midfield" is a specific point and with a busy radio frequency, one is not always able to report at that exact point. It is much more important to report "Downwind" and that is, in fact, more correct. "Abeam the numbers on downwind" would be appropriate if you are there. However, if you have gotten beyond the approach end of the runway, you should always say "extended downwind".
 
AuntPeggy said:
Midfield is where Tower wants the report, not the words.

ATC: "Aircraft, say altitude."
Aircraft: "Altitude."
ATC: "Aircraft, say airspeed."
Aircraft: "Airspeed."
Tower: "Aircraft, say cancel IFR."
Aircraft: "Eight thousand feet. One hundred fifty indicated."
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Ahh that's a good one. Never thought about that:idea:

I always call left/right downwind and base though;)
 
AuntPeggy said:
Midfield is where Tower wants the report, not the words.

ATC: "Aircraft, say altitude."
Aircraft: "Altitude."
ATC: "Aircraft, say airspeed."
Aircraft: "Airspeed."
Tower: "Aircraft, say cancel IFR."
Aircraft: "Eight thousand feet. One hundred fifty indicated."
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:goofy::goofy::goofy::goofy::goofy:
 
AuntPeggy said:
Midfield is where Tower wants the report, not the words.

ATC: "Aircraft, say altitude."
Aircraft: "Altitude."
ATC: "Aircraft, say airspeed."
Aircraft: "Airspeed."
Tower: "Aircraft, say cancel IFR."
Aircraft: "Eight thousand feet. One hundred fifty indicated."
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SmartAxx pilot meets smartAxx controller. :yes:
 
AuntPeggy said:
Midfield is where Tower wants the report, not the words.
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I think you may be splitting hairs with that.

When the tower says "report midfield downwind for runway 27", then that's what I say. If I omit the "midfield", the tower controller still might know what I mean, but it can't hurt to repeat it.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
I think you may be splitting hairs with that.

When the tower says "report midfield downwind for runway 27", then that's what I say. If I omit the "midfield", the tower controller still might know what I mean, but it can't hurt to repeat it.
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Depends on how busy the frequency is. With plenty of bandwidth I'd call with "Tower, Nxx, midfield downwind" but when it's so busy it takes three tries just to get a word in I'd go with nothing more than my call sign and maybe one more word which could be midfield, downwind, or reporting.

You gotta understand why the controller requests these reports. All they really want is a heads up when you're close enough so they can easily spot you in the pattern and then sequence you for the runway. If they asked to report midfield left downwind, that's where they're going to look when you call, and chances are they've already seen you and the report is just a trigger for them to issue their next instruction to you.
 
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