Touring a large city with a Bravo airport

David Anthony

David Anthony

Filing Flight Plan
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Dec 10, 2020
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Michigan
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Display name:
David A
I’ve been wanting to fly around the city of Detroit at night (vfr). Is it fairly easy to get the clearance to do this even inside of the bravo? How do you go about doing this when it comes to radio calls and such?
 
Do the river tour at night. Fly VFR between the banks of the river at about 2000' while talking to Detroit approach. It is absolutely stunning.
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And since I didn't answer the question, I've been granted bravo clearance in Detroit at night several times but I've never tried to loiter. I've been cleared to orbit inside the bravo in Cleveland a number of times, including once in the surface area. It all depends on where you are going, what you are doing, how busy the controllers are, and which runways they are landing.
 
David Anthony said:
I’ve been wanting to fly around the city of Detroit at night (vfr). Is it fairly easy to get the clearance to do this even inside of the bravo? How do you go about doing this when it comes to radio calls and such?
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Don't know how easy it is but just tell them what you want to do. They'll either clear it or not. I know here in the Atlanta Bravo you can request the 'Atlanta tour' and they clear it.
 
Boston Logan will sometimes let you fly the helicopter routes at night.
 
BrianNC said:
Don't know how easy it is but just tell them what you want to do. They'll either clear it or not. I know here in the Atlanta Bravo you can request the 'Atlanta tour' and they clear it.
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What is the "Atlanta Tour"? Sounds like fun.
 
WDD said:
What is the "Atlanta Tour"? Sounds like fun.
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Just getting a clearance to fly around Atlanta and sight see. Atlanta is pretty good about clearing VFR traffic into the Bravo. Try it sometime. Just tell them what you want to do. Of course since I told you this they will probably not let you in. lol.
 
BrianNC said:
Just getting a clearance to fly around Atlanta and sight see. Atlanta is pretty good about clearing VFR traffic into the Bravo. Try it sometime. Just tell them what you want to do. Of course since I told you this they will probably not let you in. lol.
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To add, I have actually done it too under the Bravo also without getting a clearance. Under that 3500 foot shelf.
 
Radar Contact to the white courtesy phone please.
He just yesterday, I think, posted a YouTube video of his Boston Bravo tour, including his request to ATC.
 
Depends on the airspace, time of day, duration of your flight, etc. I’d just call up the facility and ask. They may be more accommodating due to COVID and less air traffic.
 
Call the landline to app control. might take a bit to get through. tell them what you want/plan to do and what they would like to see from you. I have done that in places, works really well. They also are expecting you when you check in with them. Works very smoothly. I have been asked for a ride, next time I do it. Do that!!!!!! its amazing how much you learn when you have a controller ride along with you. I can't advise strong enough, to take a controller for a ride. It's great!
 
Depends on Bravo. LAX for example if you are not familiar with any fully self sufficiently prepared to fly one of the published transitions you will most likely be told to "remain clear of Bravo"

SFO however will give you a route that practically overflies downtown.
 
wrbix said:
Radar Contact to the white courtesy phone please.
He just yesterday, I think, posted a YouTube video of his Boston Bravo tour, including his request to ATC.
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Ya gotta put the @ in there. Like @Radar Contact . Then he gets a notification that he’s being stalked:D To RC, post #9
 
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I’ve been cleared to fly the Helo Routes many times in the NYC Bravo. Get the Helo Route chart and study it before you go... It will let you sound like you know what you are doing. The first time I did it, I had my CFI with me.

-Skip
 
luvflyin said:
Ya gotta put the @ in there. Like @Radar Contact . Then he gets a notification that he’s being stalked:D To RC, post #9
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One thing I find interesting in his videos is how much he uses plain language. If a bona fide controller is willing to just ask for what he wants, it's good enough for me.
 
Jim K said:
One thing I find interesting in @Radar Contact videos is how much he uses plain language. If a bona fide controller is willing to just ask for what he wants, it's good enough for me.
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Exactly. There is no secret. Just tell them what you want to do in plain language and either they'll let you or they won't. It ain't rocket surgery.
 
I flew the San Diego Bay Tour this evening at 800ft thru the Bravo followed by the taxiway D over SAN, then over the top of Miramar just by asking.
 
David Anthony said:
I’ve been wanting to fly around the city of Detroit at night (vfr). Is it fairly easy to get the clearance to do this even inside of the bravo? How do you go about doing this when it comes to radio calls and such?
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you really don’t need a bravo clearance to fly over Detroit. Stay below the 2500 - 3000 foot shelves and you will be good. With that said, I do it quite often and almost always get cleared to 3500. Just ask.
 
BrianNC said:
Exactly. There is no secret. Just tell them what you want to do in plain language and either they'll let you or they won't. It ain't rocket surgery.
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Yup. It’s the only way you can do it. There is no general ‘phraseology’ prescribed for it. Your only choices are plain language or don’t do it. That being said there are some places where unofficial procedures are in place where certain ‘tours’ are named. Like the ones in @MarcusSD ’s post #17. They aren’t ‘published’ but everyone in San Diego, pilots and controllers, know them.

EDIT: It sounds like Boston has some of these. In @Radar Contact ’s request, post #18, at about 7:00, the controller responds with “...understand your looking for a [?] north...”
 
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BOS let me circle over the city a few months ago. I called up on the radio and told them what I wanted to do, and they were very accommodating. I think the big thing is to sound semi competent on the radio and be sure to explain what you want do without vagaries. Also, be prepared for them to say no.
 
I wouldn't try it in DC anymore (they used to be accomodating once you stayed away from the P-area).
 
luvflyin said:
This guy may know. He's a Detroitian. Paging @Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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I have never tried to get into the Bravo - crappy radio and I sound more like Jethro Bodine than an airline pilot. But I have talked to them when I brought my ride in and out of ONZ without a transponder - no big deal (It now has all that fancy stuff installed...).

I have been told by a TRACON controller that "it depends" on how busy they are. A phone call ahead of time wouldn't hurt so you can avoid a "push".

At night, well, I fly under the light and sporty rules now days, so no help there either.
 
It's hard to beat flying up the Hudson River along NYC. Can do this below 1100' without a clearance, or higher with clearance from the towers.
Jon
 
4CornerFlyer said:
It's hard to beat flying up the Hudson River along NYC. Can do this below 1100' without a clearance, or higher with clearance from the towers.
Jon
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Actually 1,300 is the upper limit of the SFRA. FYI
 
Shawn said:
Depends on Bravo. LAX for example if you are not familiar with any fully self sufficiently prepared to fly one of the published transitions you will most likely be told to "remain clear of Bravo"

SFO however will give you a route that practically overflies downtown.
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The reason for that with the LAX bravo is they are very sensitive about RAs breaking anyone off those 100+ mile long straight ins and also messing with traffic that is shoe horned into the other very busy airports in the area.

If you think the VFR tours they give you into SFO are fun, you should fly in IFR from the north. When they break you off the Pt. Reyes arrival, they put you on an amazing downwind for 28R that splits both the Golden Gate and Bay Bridges and gives you insane views of San Francisco, Oakland, Alameda and the like. Amazing.

Jim K said:
One thing I find interesting in his videos is how much he uses plain language. If a bona fide controller is willing to just ask for what he wants, it's good enough for me.
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That's what controllers want. Plain language, get the message across.
 
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