Touch and go at a military base

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ATC_av8er

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ATC_av8er
Anyone know the rules regarding this? My flight instructor doesn't since he's never been asked nor has he ever tried. Would kind of like to do one if the law allows.

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Instrument approaches will work at some airports - like Lackland / Kelly AFB in San Antonio back in the day when I was training, but you are VERY unlikely to be allowed to touch down without a PPR and then it's for a full stop visit, not for training.
 
You can do low approaches all you want, with permission from the tower. Just like any other C or D facility.

However if you want to touch the ground, you should research this subject: civil aircraft landing permit.


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ATC_av8er said:
Anyone know the rules regarding this? My flight instructor doesn't since he's never been asked nor has he ever tried. Would kind of like to do one if the law allows.

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Varies by service & base SOP. Call the ATC facility in the base in question and they'll be able to answer. Most likely without a CALP for that field, you'll get only a low approach.
 
Policy now is they must be joint usage bases for civil aircraft to land.
I don't know when the policy changed.
 
CFI AandP said:
You can do low approaches all you want, with permission from the tower. Just like any other C or D facility.
However if you want to touch the ground, you should research this subject: civil aircraft landing permit.
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This is true (retired USAF ATC here) at Air Force bases, however, not all you want. You can land but you have to apply for PPR (prior permission required) approval. Depends on what is going on at a particular USAF base, and/or the Commander's policy. Usually if it's slow you can get an instrument approach to a low approach but unlikely if the base is busy. Air Force constantly training controllers so they need the practice too.
 
We do PARs into Simmons AAF routinely.

They love it...

I have been asked to go back around so another controller could get one in...

Touching down is a no no.
 
I have taken students to Gray Army Airfield (Fort Lewis) many times...but never landed there because prior permission is required. I flew to the USCG Air Station at Port Angeles just once, full stop. Even though I was there on an inspection mission and was on the 13th CG District staff, I had to get prior permission.

Bob Gardner
 
It's been a while, but in the past I have done low approaches to military bases. I've done it when nothing was going on, so it gives the controllers something to break the boredom. I am very careful to not touch their runway.

I'm 99.99999% sure you would need to comply with Title 32AVIIF-885 beforehand if you want to touch down.

Unless you either:

a) Like the taste of runway.

b) Used the 'E' word, preferable several times.
 
I've done PAR and GCA approaches at Lawson Field on Ft. Benning, and been cleared for a low approach. I queried the tower how low? Their answer was "as low as you want, just don't touch down." Did two approaches there that night last year.
 
Hank S said:
I've done PAR and GCA approaches at Lawson Field on Ft. Benning, and been cleared for a low approach. I queried the tower how low? Their answer was "as low as you want, just don't touch down." Did two approaches there that night last year.
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Stop down to Cairns AAF. They'll give ya a PAR as well. Might have to fly slow if it's rush hour though. You'll be wedged between TH-67s doing 90 kts on final. Might get denied if it's too busy though.
 
Velocity173 said:
Stop down to Cairns AAF. They'll give ya a PAR as well. Might have to fly slow if it's rush hour though. You'll be wedged between TH-67s doing 90 kts on final. Might get denied if it's too busy though.
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Nothing wrong with 90 knots, it's all that rotor wash that would have me paranoid.
 
Sherman AAF (KFLV) at Fort Leavenworth is a joint use, non-towered airfield. Can do all the approaches and touch and goes you want...just make sure you go to the civilian side to get fuel. :)

Cheers,
Brian
 
Every few years, Columbs AFB (KCBM) has a civilian fly-in where we spend all day in safety seminars and getting tours of the TRACON and get to fly the cool Texan, T38, and T1 simulators there. I try to attend if at all possible, so I've managed to log a landing there. They did require PPR filed at least 10 days in advance (they supposedly did background checks on the requesting PIC) and all aircraft had to be on a flight plan, either VFR or IFR, coming and going.

I've never been brave enough to request an approach to the runways at KCBM with their TRACON. In fact, they will nearly always start giving you vectors away from their Charlie is you as much as point your propeller at them.
 
Randolph AFB, in the San Antonio, TX area and Sheppard AFB in Wichita Falls also have civilian fly-ins on occasion with the PPR requirements.
 
I used to take my students to Homestead AFB (KHST). They allowed IAPs and could T&G or full stop taxi back. You could not shut down or get out though. This was 1999/2000.
 
RyanShort1 said:
Randolph AFB, in the San Antonio, TX area and Sheppard AFB in Wichita Falls also have civilian fly-ins on occasion with the PPR requirements.
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Sheppard is joint use, no PPR needed to land there. If you want to park on the USAF ramp, you would need prior coordination of course.
 
jwbruce said:
Every few years, Columbs AFB (KCBM) has a civilian fly-in where we spend all day in safety seminars and getting tours of the TRACON and get to fly the cool Texan, T38, and T1 simulators there. I try to attend if at all possible, so I've managed to log a landing there. They did require PPR filed at least 10 days in advance (they supposedly did background checks on the requesting PIC) and all aircraft had to be on a flight plan, either VFR or IFR, coming and going.

I've never been brave enough to request an approach to the runways at KCBM with their TRACON. In fact, they will nearly always start giving you vectors away from their Charlie is you as much as point your propeller at them.
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I'd like to fly there one day. It'd be a chore landing the 172 on that 12000ft runway :lol:
 
jwbruce said:
I've never been brave enough to request an approach to the runways at KCBM with their TRACON. In fact, they will nearly always start giving you vectors away from their Charlie is you as much as point your propeller at them.
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That's to be expected, since they do UPT for new pilots it's one of the busiest fields in the USAF. If you visit an operational base, which do have their busy periods, but there is still lots of downtime to where you can do practice approaches. The training bases like Columbus just go non-stop.
 
Approaches, sure, but I've never heard of one letting you chirp rubber.
 
jwbruce said:
I've never been brave enough to request an approach to the runways at KCBM with their TRACON. In fact, they will nearly always start giving you vectors away from their Charlie is you as much as point your propeller at them.
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Years ago (late 70s) I was a fully rated controller in the RAPCON (AF name for TRACON) and Tower. If training is going on, which it does M-F, you probably won't be allowed. I recall a KC135 doing practice ILSs and after the 2nd one operations made them leave (worried about wake turbulence). If the base is behind in their flying time line they may train on Sat and Suns. Otherwise weekends are usually slow and you can get practice approaches. I don't think the PAR is there anymore but you might be able to get a surveillance approach, which is good training for controller as well. Make it a no-gyro surveillance approach!
 
fiveninerzero said:
That's to be expected, since they do UPT for new pilots it's one of the busiest fields in the USAF. If you visit an operational base, which do have their busy periods, but there is still lots of downtime to where you can do practice approaches. The training bases like Columbus just go non-stop.
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I've still never seen an airfield as busy as CAFB. (I assume the other UPT bases are the same, but have never spent much time anywhere else). They would have a full pattern of Tweets on the inside runway (max of 16 in the pattern at once... no, I'm not kidding :hairraise:) The center runway was for T-1 traffic doing instrument approaches and the outside runway was the T-38 practice runway full of students as well. The max there was much less than the tweets since you are going faster and there's less 38's. I don't ever remember having more than 7 or 8 in the pattern at once.

The kicker is that the T-37 and T-38 patterns were controlled from RSU's where the instructor pilots were the controllers. 16 jets in one VFR pattern - guys trying to do mid-field closed, breakout and re-enters, straight-ins, formation approaches and all controlled by pilots. It was crazy busy but really cool by the time you finished T-37's you were so used to it that you could fly your jet and remember where everyone else was in the pattern at once. Made for good multi-tasking practice! The only ATC controllers were on the center runway.

So, not a lot of room to squeeze in a 172 during the week, but most places are bored on the weekends, so give it a try there. (watch out for the aux field 1MS8 - it's full of students during the week too).
 
I tried at Vandenburg and they wouldnt let me. They werent mean about it though.
 
coloradobluesky said:
I tried at Vandenburg and they wouldnt let me. They werent mean about it though.
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Moffett won't let me train here and I work here.

They do let everyone use the ILS up to the highway (which works out to not that far above minimums -- around 300 feet depending on how close you want to cut it to the highway). But no missed approaches, as the missed procedure cuts off SFO traffic.

I guess I'm not a billionaire.

Vandenberg is inside restricted airspace, unlike most military fields.
 
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Grissom Air Force base (GUS) permits civilian operations (including landings) with no prior permission required, and has a civilian FBO side of the airport. You can park at the civilian FBO and get a ride over to the military air museum. I don't know if this is just a one-off situation or if there are other Air Force bases where this is also possible.
 
EvilEagle said:
I've still never seen an airfield as busy as CAFB. (I assume the other UPT bases are the same, but have never spent much time anywhere else).
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They're all busy. During Vietnam they were even busier. Those bases had higher traffic counts than O'Hara. FAA took over ATC as the USAF controllers were needed in Southeast Asia (Vietnam & Thailand).
 
I'd make low approaches into camp Pendleton then missed to the ocn and hold, shoot the vor into crq and all over again another day. I was always advised low approach approved, landing is unauthorized. The lowest I got was probably 10 feet. Even if I did chirp em, I was an active duty Marine and knew about a third of field ops so I wasn't like omg, here come the jeeps and m16s.
 
Some fields have arrestor cables (even AFBs) across the runway and they don't want unfamiliar pilots catching a wheel on one. That and it's against regs without prior permission as others have said.

That said, join CAP because they operate in and out of AFBs quite frequently with permission. My squadron kept a plane at Buckley AFB so we went in there a lot, obviously.
 
petrolero said:
Some fields have arrestor cables (even AFBs) across the runway and they don't want unfamiliar pilots catching a wheel on one. That and it's against regs without prior permission as others have said.



That said, join CAP because they operate in and out of AFBs quite frequently with permission. My squadron kept a plane at Buckley AFB so we went in there a lot, obviously.
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They were kinda touchy about operating on days AF1 was expected, though. ;)
 
coloradobluesky said:
I tried at Vandenburg and they wouldnt let me. They werent mean about it though.
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Lol, they were probably glad they had someone aside from skydive to talk to. Lots of runway, not a heap of traffic there.
 
petrolero said:
Some fields have arrestor cables (even AFBs) across the runway and they don't want unfamiliar pilots catching a wheel on one. .
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If there are fighters based at a base OR a civilian airport (think ANG units w/ fighters), they'll have arresting cables, one about 1000' beyond the threshold and one about 1000' before the end of the runway. Usually the tower will advise that the cable is up (tower can lower and raise the cable at some bases, others barrier maint has to do it), and to land beyond the approach end cable.
 
Landed on a raised cable in a C150 with my CFI before. As long as you keep the nose off, the mains will roll over it. The thing was loud though and it bounced us up a few inches. Wouldn't do it with my personal aircraft.
 
When I was at Eglin AFB tower an aero club Beech Skipper was taxing over the cable and the 'donut' (holds the cable a few inches off the runway) jammed in the wheel somehow. After advising the tower they got out and rocked it out, got back in, and the battery dies on them. Nothing going on so no big deal, but it was kinda funny watching from the tower plus I knew he CFI.

As Velocity stated, you'll get a good jolt going over one unless you taxi slow over it.
 
The best time to do practice approaches at Columbus AFB would probably be on a Saturday. I think the tower was still open on Saturday but not Sunday. Those arresting cables are definitely something I would consider. I land past them and my tires are almost 3 feet high. As others have said, depending on the installation most will let you shoot approaches all day long as long as it doesn't interfere with military ops/training. Most would love to have you do PAR approaches so the guys can stay current.
 
Most, if any, USAF bases don't have PARs anymore now that the newer planes have ILS onboard. I'm not positive but the only PAR equipment in the USAF is the mobile radar units (see my profile for a pic of one, the MPN-14) assigned to Combat Communications
units at Robins AFB (5th CCG) and ANG Combat Communication Squadrons. You might be able to do a Surveillance Approach though.
 
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