Today's my big court trial - advice?

SkyHog said:
So what is the right math there then? If he is turning at 60 degrees, how long does it take to complete a 90 degree turn, assuming 0 wind?
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Depends on what plane the turn is performed. If I roll, rudder, and drop the nose, a second to get the turn and 4 more to level out. If I'm pulling a level 2G turn, I'd guess it would be 7-8 seconds.
 
SkyHog said:
So what is the right math there then? If he is turning at 60 degrees, how long does it take to complete a 90 degree turn, assuming 0 wind?
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If he's at, say 85 knots, neglecting the time to roll in and roll out, about 4-5 sec. And a standard rate turn at those speeds is going to be closer to 10-15 deg bank than 30.

Nauga,
and his comparative performance estimate
 
SkyHog said:
So what is the right math there then? If he is turning at 60 degrees, how long does it take to complete a 90 degree turn, assuming 0 wind?
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You need to also know the airspeed. I think this is the correct equation.

With R in feet, v in knots, b in degrees and w in degrees/sec (inconsistent units!), numerical constants are introduced:

R =v^2/(11.23*tan(0.01745*b))
(Example) At 100 knots, with a 45 degree bank, the radius of turn is 100^2/(11.23*tan(0.01745*45))= 891 feet.

The rate of turn w is given by:

w = 96.7*v/R
(Example) = 96.7*100/891= 10.9 degs/sec
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http://williams.best.vwh.net/avform.htm#Turns
 
strangebird said:
I have to wonder if the pilot and or the airplane were not legal to fly , or were operating in a way that is contrary to FAR, would that make a difference?

Long ago had a State police 182 almost hit me in my old Aeronca Champ, while I was doing pattern work, he would swing into the downwind leg on his circuit at pattern altitude going the opposite way so he could stay over the highway and the right seater could do the dirty work.

After the near miss, he then told me to leave the traffic pattern over the radio, and told me that I was in his way in a very not so nice way, he never called his position at anytime , I ignored him and adjusted my circuits so that he could not clock anyone on the highway eventually he left the area and got no speeders, Champ 1, SP 0
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I don't know about down there but in Alaska? Law enforcement flights don't use FARs. They're exempt.
 
SkyHog said:
By the way, the trial was a strange one. No district attorney, and the officers put on their own case. It was called an "informal hearing" which I presume is because the officers aren't lawyers and unlikely to be able to argue law against someone with a lawyer.
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Years ago, Colorado decriminalized minor traffic matters - there's a difference between a traffic "offense" and a traffic "infraction." Infractions are defined a "civil offenses." As the rules themselves put it:

For this purpose, the rules apply concepts of both civil and criminal law, as deemed appropriate, to establish informal hearing procedures in the county courts​
.

Among those non-criminal informal procedures are the non-existence of discovery, the lack of a requirement for a judge (the "referee" is typically a magistrate) and the lack of a prosecutor. It does still, however, require proof beyond a reasonable doubt and, while there is typically no plea-bargaining (it used to be prohibited, not it's just a matter of policy, the referee can find someone guilty of a lesser infraction if what is charged is not proved completely.
 
SkyHog said:
So what is the right math there then? If he is turning at 60 degrees, how long does it take to complete a 90 degree turn, assuming 0 wind?
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Depends on his speed. Lets say he's doing 90 knots. At 90 knots, 60 degrees of bank, 90 degrees will take 4.3 seconds. At 80 knots 3.8 seconds.

120 knots 5.8 seconds.


I doubt he would be 80 knots or slower. At 80 knots in a 182 at 60 degrees of bank he would be 11 knots above stall.
 
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nauga said:
If he's at, say 85 knots, neglecting the time to roll in and roll out, about 4-5 sec. And a standard rate turn at those speeds is going to be closer to 10-15 deg bank than 30.

Nauga,
and his comparative performance estimate
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Turn around a point anyone? Flying correctly, a good pilot can make it so the car *never* leaves his field of view.

Though it's really going to be more of an ellipse, since the car is moving.
 
EdFred said:
Turn around a point anyone? Flying correctly, a good pilot can make it so the car *never* leaves his field of view.

Though it's really going to be more of an ellipse, since the car is moving.
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Right, tracking a car is not hard, I've tracked moving cars for a hour before and never took my eyes off them.
 
Stewartb said:
I don't know about down there but in Alaska? Law enforcement flights don't use FARs. They're exempt.
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I do not think they are exempt from all of CFR 14. They're exempt from a lot of it, as a lot of it specifies civil aircraft but not ALL of it specifies civil aircraft

I do not think the part Nick referenced scopes to civil aircraft only but I don't have the time now to look.
 
N801BH said:
Is that when you were arrested for stalking ???:dunno:.....:D
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The last time..someone was supposed to meet me at my hangar to help me with something. They were late. So I went up in the Flybaby and found them then tracked them around until they finally drove to the airport :)
 
FastEddieB said:
I always encouraged my trainees to let the little ones go - ties go to the driver.

There are enough good tickets and DUI's out there not to mess with the marginal ones.
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"When shooting fish in a barrel, make sure to only shoot the big fish"
 
SkyHog said:
My guess still remains: he measured one car violating, and somehow scrogged up the relay to the ground officer who stopped the wrong car.

One of my questions to both officers was "did you observe any erratic driving? Swerving, cutting into and out of lanes, etc." Both said no.

So how was I going 101 (I was wrong on the speed, it wasn't 108) in rush hour with traffic marked as "heavy" by the officers own admission without weaving in and out?

That's the mystery. But how do you prove that?
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How was the other car doing 101 if the traffic was heavy and he wasn't weaving? Was all traffic going 101?
 
jesse said:
...I've tracked moving cars for a hour before and never took my eyes off them.[emphasis added]
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10 seconds or so is usually all you need ;)

Nauga,
with a pickle, pause, and pull.
 
N801BH said:
...the courses were at Amelia Airhart park in North Miami...
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Small world.

Me getting (very) muddy at Amelia Earhart Park:

8754931358_ccc5a35fe4_z.jpg
 
FastEddieB said:
Small world.

Me getting (very) muddy at Amelia Earhart Park:

8754931358_ccc5a35fe4_z.jpg
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Yup.. Small world for sure..... Altho it looks like the open space across the street we called " Government Property" The year is rained that much was the same year to officer from Coral Gables was racing and was killed on the front stretch of the race track..:dunno:...

I am getting old though....:confused:
 
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Flying Viking said:
How was the other car doing 101 if the traffic was heavy and he wasn't weaving? Was all traffic going 101?
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Start clock on car #1, make a turn, watch car #2 that looks a lot like car #1 from 1000 AGL, stop clock and ticket car #2 while car #1 drives past 10 seconds later. Nobody weaves, and nobody is going 100mph.
 
Matthew said:
Start clock on car #1, make a turn, watch car #2 that looks a lot like car #1 from 1000 AGL, stop clock and ticket car #2 while car #1 drives past 10 seconds later. Nobody weaves, and nobody is going 100mph.
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That is probably what happened too...:mad2::mad2::mad:
 
SkyHog said:
4. I intend to demonstrate that entering the interstate at Mile Marker 163, then accelerating to 108MPH within 1/2 mile, maintaining that speed long enough to be measured by an aircraft, then slowing to a reasonable speed in time to be engaged by the officer on the ground, then entering the right lane where I determined that the officer was pulling me over, then stopping within sight of Mile Marker 165 - 2 miles away from my entrance, would be a very difficult task in the normal traffic load that is encountered during morning rush hour on I-25 to Denver.
5. I plan to ask for a summary judgment before closing arguments based on the state's lack of evidence.

What do you guys think? Good plan?
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What kind of car where you driving? In order to get timed doing 101mph you would have to cross the start and finish line doing 101mph. I think what you should of argued was the cars ability to reach 101mph before the first line and maintain that speed to the second line during rush hour traffic. This would of been made easy with a dash cam recording you at the same time the ticket was issued getting on the highway with the "flow" of traffic.
 
Matthew said:
Start clock on car #1, make a turn, watch car #2 that looks a lot like car #1 from 1000 AGL, stop clock and ticket car #2 while car #1 drives past 10 seconds later. Nobody weaves, and nobody is going 100mph.
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I think we have a winner.

"How were you able to tell there weren't any other vehicles matching my vehicle's description inside the painted lines throughout the timing?"

And get the number of vehicles matching the description of yours in the State entered as evidence from DMV.

Oh well.
 
My brother is a State Farm rep - he said that (at least in Florida) you have a ticket with 3 digits they drop you from auto insurance and your rates go pretty high
 
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