Today should be fun

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Clip4

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Cli4ord
Those who read my posts, love em or hate em, know I am critical of both the minimum FAA experience and certification standards for CFI applicants.

So this week I started polishing an inexperienced CFI with a few instructional hours to get him to the standards required work at a high quality flight school.

We started with review of a few maneuvers. Oh boy - I got my work cut out. But, I am really looking forward to this.
 
You could probably be a little more specific.
 
Flight one completed. Maybe these days I expect a lot, but shouldn’t a new CFI be able to at least demonstrate all the private pilot maneuvers to private pilot standards? I am not even talking about instructing them, just do them.
 
Clip4 said:
Flight one completed. Maybe these days I expect a lot, but shouldn’t a new CFI be able to at least demonstrate all the private pilot maneuvers to private pilot standards? I am not even talking about instructing them, just do them.
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I remember back when the ink was still wet on my temporary FII certificate. I had a total of something around 275 hours. I had just finally learned to hit my intended landing spot on the runway twice in a row...

Lot of landings on all types of surfaces since then....except grass.

What is a high quality flight school.??
 
Zeldman said:
I remember back when the ink was still wet on my temporary FII certificate. I had a total of something around 275 hours. I had just finally learned to hit my intended landing spot on the runway twice in a row...

Lot of landings on all types of surfaces since then....except grass.

What is a high quality flight school.??
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One where 90% of the instructors have more than 2000 hours and are not looking for airline jobs.
 
Clip4 said:
One where 90% of the instructors have more than 2000 hours and are not looking for airline jobs.
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So are only 90% of the instructors high-quality now? If you got a CFI that can’t do basic maneuvers that seems like a bad hire. Do you charge that guy dual for instruction?
 
Landing Fees said:
So are only 90% of the instructors high-quality now? If you got a CFI that can’t do basic maneuvers that seems like a bad hire. Do you charge that guy dual for instruction?
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90% are very high time profession pilots, about 10% have lesser time and are closely supervised.

Each applicant has to pass a 141 instructor check ride to the flight school standard before he will be hired on a probationary status, and closely supervised.

in this case, we may offer to train up this applicant, and yes he is being charged.
 
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Don’t hire that one guy that won’t pay dual rates cause he ain’t a student anymore.
 
Landing Fees said:
Don’t hire that one guy that won’t pay dual rates cause he ain’t a student anymore.
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You mean when the instructor isn’t even in the plane?
 
Clip4 said:
One where 90% of the instructors have more than 2000 hours and are not looking for airline jobs.
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How much are you paying them?

Sounds inline with what FSI looks for ground/sim guys, think they are around 100k a year with a pretty good benefit package and normally a “free” type rating or two.

Doc Holliday said:
Just curious, are you an older version of James?
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Ahh doc, let’s have a group hug
 
Clip4 said:
Not enough high timers to meet student demand.
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Sure there are!

Just a matter of making it worth their time, but still being pallatible to students.

So... ether you’re down with a low time hour builder, or you’re down to pay $200hr for a multi thousand hour CFI, or you’re down to fly at the whim of a high time pilot who CFIs on the side, OR you’re calling a old retired guy who’s a hobby pilot with a few thousand hours of burger runs over half a century highly experienced, now you also have the unicorn retired high time professional pilot who still wants to CFI as a retirement job.

Free market has shown the hour builder wins for flight schools.
 
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Depemds of qualifications and contract, but the top rate is $100 an hour plus per diem.

And no, we don’t take dead beats off the street. You need to be referred by another IP.
 
Doc Holliday said:
So what do you pay? Is it a secret?
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Speaking of secrets, you seriously manually set who can or can’t see..... your POA profile?
Guess I wasn’t worthy lol

4-AF4-FB24-4-A78-460-F-84-D7-559-F25-AA9532.jpg
 
Clip4 said:
It depends of qualifications. $35 for entry CFI
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But that’s only for a tiny minority of your CFIs right? Think you said 10%?

So real world big picture you’re paying $100hr plus per diem to your CFIs, what do you bill them out for and what’s your average cost, say for a 60hr PPL?
 
James331 said:
But that’s only for a tiny minority of your CFIs right? Think you said 10%?

So real world big picture you’re paying $100hr plus per diem to your CFIs, what do you bill them out for and what’s your average cost, say for a 60hr PPL?
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For PPL, Instr, and commercial training the rate is $40 for the experienced folk billed at $50. The rest is govt contract, CSIP, and advanced training.
 
Clip4 said:
For PPL, Instr, and commercial training the rate is $40 for the experienced folk billed at $50. The rest is govt contract, CSIP, and advanced training.
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So the experienced guys are paid $100 but billed out at $40 or $50, what about the $50-60 loss you take not even counting the markup between what they are paid out to billed out as?

Or are you saying you use the low time $35hr CFIs for PPL-CPL

And only use the experienced $100hr guys for the .gov, cirrus and advanced training?
 
James331 said:
So the experienced guys are paid $100 but billed out at $40 or $50, what about the $50-60 loss you take not even counting the markup between what they are paid out to billed out as?

Or are you saying you use the low time $35hr CFIs for PPL-CPL

And only use the experienced $100hr guys for the .gov, cirrus and advanced training?
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no, we have a lot of retired guys who instruct part time $40 an hour, several doing the CSIP thing, also so,e take part in a number of other contracts that are annual and temporary. Different jobs, different pay scales, different durations. None of the low experienced folks get the better paying stuff.
 
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Clip4 said:
no, we have a lot of retire guys who instruct part time $40 an hour, several doing the CSIP thing, also so,e take part in a number of other contracts that are annual and temporary. Different jobs, different pay scales, different durations. None of the low experienced folks get the better paying stuff.
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That makes more sense, do you get much turmoil with the large differences in pay in a small school?
 
James331 said:
That makes more sense, do you get much turmoil with the large differences in pay in a small school?
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Zero. Some of it is qualifications, some seniority. I was lucky to be asked to work for the company when it first formed.
 
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