To cross or not to cross?

[AvNavCom]

Hi guys,

Figured I'd run this one by the group for opinions regarding post-run-up taxi technique. The three pictures below are from 16L/34R at Manassas, a class delta airport. I'm new to the airport and trying to figure out how things are done. I thought this was an interesting one.

The 16L run-up area (picture #1) has a solid line and a dashed line, which we all know indicates that you can cross from the dashed side to the solid side without permission, but the reverse isn't true. The 34R run-up area (picture #2) has a simple dashed line, indicating transit in and out of that area without further permission. The taxiway running parallel to the runway is Bravo. Part of the East ramp and the various taxiway options to 16L are shown in picture #3. All of the following would start on the East ramp.

Scenario #1
"Taxi to runway 34R via Bravo" -- Non-event. Routine practice would be to taxi via Bravo to the run-up area, complete the run-up, and then taxi to the hold-short of 34R to contact tower for take-off.

Scenario #2
"Taxi to runway 16L via Bravo" -- Now trickier. Permission is given to the runway but technically you leave the movement area if you taxi across the line into the run-up area and presumably (based on a strict reading of the regs) would require explicit permission to cross it again into the movement area.

Scenario #3
Use the circuitous route (visible in picture #3) to taxi to the run-up area and perform your run-up, *then* call Ground for permission to taxi the twenty feet to the hold-short line. As you never actually cross into the movement area, until you cross a dash-solid line, there's no requirement to talk to ATC prior to that moment.

Here's the twist: I actually called ATC prior to start-up to ask them if they wanted me to call Ground again after my run-up since I was crossing that solid-dash line. He sounded non-plussed for a moment, and then said "No, you can just proceed directly to the runway and call ready for take-off after your run-up is done."

As PIC, it's obviously my rear-end if I violate a reg. So I put this question to the group: do you think that exiting and then reentering the movement area over that line is within the bounds of the original "taxi to" instruction, or do you think that exiting the movement area requires renewed permission to reenter it again?

For this flight, I made the decision that ATC was aware of my intentions and had explicitly instructed me to taxi to the hold-short after my run-up, so the safety intent was met. But it still raised the hairs on the back of my neck a bit. It also occurred to me that standard practice isn't necessarily legal practice, and potentially this might be a normalization of deviance for the sake of convenience. This time, I had made a phone call to the recorded tower line, so I could prove that I had permission to taxi back across that line, what if next time I get a "taxi to" instruction, cross that line again, and someone calls me out on it? I wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

So what say you? What would your practice be given the above?

 

[BillTIZ]

I'm not local to HEF.

Looking at your photos, the lines you appear to be asking about are give the appearance of being black/white. ATC directed Movement Area, Non-Movement Area, designated lines are painted in yellow. The B/W dashed lines appear to have no significance.

Looking at the HEF Airport web site, there are "Special Taxi Instructions" that are more concerned with not blocking taxiway access between the ramp areas and the ATC controlled taxi routes.

https://www.manassasva.gov/Airport/HEF%20-%20Special%20Taxi%20Instructions%20(8-11-21).pdf

Below is the Rwy 29 area at KBED, Hanscom Field, Bedford Mass. Note the normal taxi line that corporate jets use, smaller GA aircraft will line up to the right of that. The area to the right of the dashed lines is used for runup. No clearance required to move in and out of that area. All painted lines are yellow.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Offhand, I would say if the instruction is to “taxi to 34R,” with nothing more, you may enter and exit the box. “Taxi to the runup area” would be different. So would an ATIS blurb instructing to contact Ground after run up. Real world, I walk up to a local CFI and ask what the local procedure is.

The black and white dashed lines are informational. Stay inside the box to avoid blocking the access to B.

 

[AvNavCom]

All of the lines are yellow, although I agree that the pictures make it appear otherwise. In person, they are very obviously the yellow solid-dashed lines that separate movement from non-movement, which is obviously necessary as there's a taxiway between that area and the runway. No white markings anywhere.

 

[asicer]

“Taxi to the runup area” would be different. So would an ATIS blurb instructing to contact Ground after run up.

I've heard "taxi 28L, charlie, bravo, alfa; advise run-up complete", which I took to mean 'don't leave the box without talking'.

 

[bflynn]

Scenario 2, you were given instruction to taxi to the runway. The fact that you cross a non movement area on B isn't relevant, you’re going to 34R.

If you’re given 2 and you need to stop and do the run up, then respond by saying that - “I need to stop at the run up area”.

Typically if I’m in a run up area and done, I’ll just tell ground “At run up, ready to taxi for takeoff”. You’ve been stopped for a while and heads down, you should check in that they haven’t made other plans because you were stopped.

 

[midlifeflyer]

All of the lines are yellow, although I agree that the pictures make it appear otherwise. In person, they are very obviously the yellow solid-dashed lines that separate movement from non-movement, which is obviously necessary as there's a taxiway between that area and the runway. No white markings anywhere.

That solves part of it! Thanks for the color information.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I've heard "taxi 28L, charlie, bravo, alfa; advise run-up complete", which I took to mean 'don't leave the box without talking'.

KAPA in Colorado has something similar. At both ends of runway 17L/35R. The standard ATIS advises to “contact ground when runup complete.”

 

[flyingcheesehead]

In any case, it's always best to err on the side of caution. I'd agree that 34R is pretty standard, but for 16L I'd tell them I need a runup, and I"d call back when I was done before re-entering the movement area, unless there's something published in the chart supplement or recorded on the ATIS saying otherwise. There are some airports, usually class D, where they have local procedures that differ from the norm, and of course as the PIC you're always going to be the one held responsible, so always make sure you are 100% clear about what you're doing and what they expect of you, and if you don't know, ask.