Time to come clean.

N

Notsurewhattodo

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Jan 12, 2020
Messages
13
Display Name
Display name:
Notsurewhattodo
First, I am aware the decisions that I made may cost me my career. Every decision that I made was to provide for my family, but that doesn’t make them right. Second, It is time to come clean and I am looking for the possible ramifications(monetary, judicial, loss of ratings, loss of medical), so I can plan to continue to provide for said family. Third, I am looking for the best way to “come clean” and rid myself off this damn guilt.

Here we go....

I have had classic migraines with aura (visual disturbance in both eyes for 10 mins, followed by headache) for years at ~8 per year. Although they are a huge pain in the butt, I don't find them incapacitating. Luckily, I have never had one in the airplane. About 4 years ago I went to a neurologist and got an MRI. I was prescribed a triptan that seems to work fine with no side effects. They reduce the migraine to a minor headache within ~20 mins. I have failed to disclose these on previous class 1 medical applications.

I have asked around the cockpit on trips and non-disclosure is clearly a very taboo topic in the industry. I have resigned to asking advice from strangers on an Internet forum! Thanks in advance for any advice (good or bad) you may have.
 
What is it with lack of integrity nowadays? Not just in aviation, but everywhere.

As for the OP, what’s you’re desired outcome, and are you amenable to that not working out for you?
 
So, if you did not find them incapacitating, as you indicated, then why did you seek attention and prescription drugs for it? You wouldn't be in this predicament and you would be just like everybody else who occasionally gets a headache.. no?

As far as what to do, what is your sudden moral obligation for "coming clean"?
 
^ps, my post above is meant to illustrate the FAA approach to this is not always logical.. is the pilot above who sought treatment for headaches actually less safe than a pilot who is not seeking treatment for similar headaches?

I worry that the "lessons learned" from threads like this are basically to not ever go to the doctor...
 
TCABM said:
What is it with lack of integrity nowadays? Not just in aviation, but everywhere.

As for the OP, what’s you’re desired outcome, and are you amenable to that not working out for you?
Click to expand...

I am professional pilot with decades of work pumped into this career. My desired outcome would be to continue this career on a guilt free capacity at some point. If that is not possible I accept it and will find another way to support the family.
 
Tantalum said:
So, if you did not find them incapacitating, as you indicated, then why did you seek attention and prescription drugs for it? You wouldn't be in this predicament and you would be just like everybody else who occasionally gets a headache.. no?

As far as what to do, what is your sudden moral obligation for "coming clean"?
Click to expand...

great question. Although they are not incapacitating, they are distracting, and would not be pleasant in the cockpit. I have had one while driving and was able to operate but as I indicated I do have some visual disturbances for about 10 or so mins. I have let it take its course with and without the prescription meds and the meds basically cut the aura time in half.

I struggle with the guilt of it. It is sketchy and not right to secretly carry an abortive medication with me everywhere I go. After much discussion with my wife we have decided that fessing up and getting this off my back os worth whatever repercussions come with it. It has been a burden on me for a while.
 
Are you sure "coming clean" is really best for your family?

Sometimes what's best is to learn to live with your guilt.

Why not simply quit your flying job and start a new career?

I see no good outcome by moving forward with confessing - and you obviously don't want to keep up the lie.

Besides the legal trouble, how do you see ever getting back in the cockpit when you still have the condition?

You're going to lose your job if you confess and you'll probably spend thousands in legal fees. What's the point? Why put your family through this? You still won't be able to fly with your condition.

I vote for eating your guilt, start a new career, and sin more.
 
Last edited:
It sounds like you are part of a crew, so you've been 'covered' at this point if it had happened in the cockpit. Single pilot would seem to be a no-go for sure.
 
Notsurewhattodo said:
great question. Although they are not incapacitating, they are distracting, and would not be pleasant in the cockpit. I have had one while driving and was able to operate but as I indicated I do have some visual disturbances for about 10 or so mins. I have let it take its course with and without the prescription meds and the meds basically cut the aura time in half.

I struggle with the guilt of it. It is sketchy and not right to secretly carry an abortive medication with me everywhere I go. After much discussion with my wife we have decided that fessing up and getting this off my back os worth whatever repercussions come with it. It has been a burden on me for a while.
Click to expand...
Well good on you for listening to your conscious, whatever you decide, good luck..
 
BrianNC said:
It sounds like you are part of a crew, so you've been 'covered' at this point if it had happened in the cockpit. Single pilot would seem to be a no-go for sure.
Click to expand...

Yes, crew airplanes. This has kept me living with this lie for this long.
 
Lndwarrior said:
Are you sure "coming clean" is really best for your family?

Sometimes what's best is to learn to live with your guilt.

Why not simply quit your flying job and start a new career?

I see no good outcome by moving forward with confessing - and you obviously don't want to keep up the lie.

Besides the legal trouble, how do you see ever getting back in the cockpit when you still have the condition?

You're going to lose your job if you confess and you'll probably spend thousands in legal fees. What's the point? Why put your family through this? You still won't be able to fly with your condition.

I vote for eating your guilt, start a new career, and sin more.
Click to expand...

Trust me there have been years of going back and forth over coming clean vs hiding. Obviously hiding it won out until now. I do fear that if the FAA finds out somehow that I have a script and hiding it the outcome will be much worse. I know you can fly with migraines. I also plan on exploring every option under the sun for figuring these things out once I have come clean. I won’t have to tip toe around the doc office or pay with cash or any of that BS.
 
Stewartb said:
It sounds like internet BS to me. Any career pro pilot would know how to figure this out.
Click to expand...

Think what you want, it’s a very taboo subject. I have reached out to other pilots, union, my next step is a consult with an AME.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Mi-ikke!
@AggieMike88
Click to expand...
s-l300.jpg
 
idahoflier said:
You need to have professional expert opinions on this to know what you're facing and make the appropriate decision
Click to expand...
+1 to this concept.

Instead of SGOTI's in an aviation forum, seek out the proper professionals to guide you: Aeromedical, legal, union...... You need to find the right folks who can guide and possibly protect you.
 
Tantalum said:
^ps, my post above is meant to illustrate the FAA approach to this is not always logical.. is the pilot above who sought treatment for headaches actually less safe than a pilot who is not seeking treatment for similar headaches?

I worry that the "lessons learned" from threads like this are basically to not ever go to the doctor...
Click to expand...
bbchien said:
How many omissions? It matters
Click to expand...

I believe 5.

Edit it looks like I started seeing the neuro with meds in 2018, so 2 omissions.
 
Last edited:
Thank you everyone for the replies. I obviously need to get some legal representation if I move in this direction. I know I am not the only pilot to have made this mistake. Heck, I personally know many. It is a messed up system.

that said, any good recs on aviation lawyers?
 
Last edited:
Notsurewhattodo said:
About 4 years ago I went to a neurologist and got an MRI. I was prescribed a triptan that seems to work fine with no side effects. They reduce the migraine to a minor headache within ~20 mins.
Click to expand...

I'd be more concerned about underlying cause than the pharmaceutical.

It seems here https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/designees_delegations/designee_types/ame/fasmb/media/201101_mcarticle.pdf that the drug issue allowed with a 24 hour grounding after taking (caveat, no Dr I'm an engineer) but I'm sure you've seen that.

With 8 episodes a year how many happen on duty?



 
Pugs said:

I'd be more concerned about underlying cause than the pharmaceutical.

It seems here https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/designees_delegations/designee_types/ame/fasmb/media/201101_mcarticle.pdf that the drug issue allowed with a 24 hour grounding after taking (caveat, no Dr I'm an engineer) but I'm sure you've seen that.

With 8 episodes a year how many happen on duty?
Click to expand...
Luckily I have never had an episode on duty. It’s only a matter of time though. God forbid they get worse or more complicated.
 
I think if the OP is really that concerned about providing for his family he should let sleeping dogs lie and eat the guilt. He created this situation, and he alone should suffer for it. That assumes his medical condition doesn't interfere with his duties as an Airman.
 
steingar said:
I think if the OP is really that concerned about providing for his family he should let sleeping dogs lie and eat the guilt. He created this situation, and he alone should suffer for it. That assumes his medical condition doesn't interfere with his duties as an Airman.
Click to expand...
That leaves open the possibility that his condition will be discovered at some point in the future and he will suddenly be facing loss of income and possible legal issues. I think that at the very minimum the OP needs to begin researching and/or training for a new career. Just in case. If he finds an acceptable job that will support him, he should consider changing careers sooner rather than later. Much better that he do it on his own schedule than being forced into it suddenly at an inconvenient time.
I
 
Ethics aside for a second. Curiosity questions.

Does the outcome change if you come clean vs. being found out?

How many years until retirement?
 
DFH65 said:
Ethics aside for a second. Curiosity questions.

Does the outcome change if you come clean vs. being found out?

How many years until retirement?
Click to expand...
I certainly think so. That is part of me coming clean. Pull off the bandaid now and deal with a minor wound vs 10yrs from now and be missing a leg.

In my late 30s
 
Getting on an internet forum and discussing this shows a lack of good judgement. You're just digging the hole deeper.
 
Nothing is TRULY anonymous but in this case I doubt anyone is going digging that hard. Anyway, a few things to consider...

1.) Are you going to kill someone? Seriously, how serious is it or not? If you are risking other people's lives you don't have that right. If not, and you are confident in that then maybe there a legal way to keep your job?

2.) Is there an FAA approved medication you could take instead?

3.) Do you want to punish yourself? Coming clean now might accomplish that and only that. If according to question one might actually kill someone than it might be for the best but if not you stand nothing to gain from incriminating yourself.

4.) Did you seek professional advice on this? Other doctors who specialize in aviation might have alternative options that could save your career. Attornies might know more on the inner workings of enforcement and know if you are in imminent trouble or just got away with something and might be OK if you cut it out sooner rather than later. Also if you have Union or higher ups in your organization that you trust.. they might be able to help you more than you think. If you have a good relationship with them and you are an asset to the company they might fight hard for you believe or not.

5.) Do you want to keep flying? Is it the only career you know? Do you enjoy it? If it's worth fighting for than fight for it! If not really than make a quiet exit that you can keep a good resume with. No need to shame yourself.

6.) What are your odds and your outs? Do you have a plan to keep flying that is safe? Do you have a plan for a different career if you can't be legal/safe? If you do nothing, eventually, what will be the outcome?

7.) Is your condition getting worse or better? If it's getting worse you have a medical battle ahead of you and that should be your focus. If it's getting better you might actually be better off pretending like it never happened dishonest as it may be. If it's staying the same then you know where your at and what you are risking.

Maybe these are some of things you are looking for answers to and why you are asking on here. If not maybe they should be the things you should think about.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
To the OP:

Meet with a HIMS AME that you are comfortable with and discuss. Put it all out there in its entirety to your AME. IF you become part of a FAA investigation for any reason, you are likely toast. Don't just think bent metal, could be something as simple as a missed radio call that resulted in a loss of separation. Especially in the 135/121 arena. If you disclose your omission and come clean, it seems unlikely that you will be referred to the OIG.. however, you may still have your certificates revoked. If the FAA finds out of their own accord, they will be more harsh in punishment.

A bit of advice regarding this message board. It will leave you with an anxiety disorder if you let it. The members that frequent this board are probably not the best source for sound advice. They have read from the gospel of the 2 AMEs who routinely post here and now think that they themselves are fit to answer any and all complex medical certification questions.

Go see your trusted AME. Be honest. With full details presented, ask him or her the question.... What are my options? Should I retire? Should I get a lawyer? Will I likely get prosecuted? Don't ask these questions of random people on the net.

Go now and never return to this thread.

Regards,
Some Guy On The Internet
 
Thank you for getting me in the
Fire2 said:
To the OP:

Meet with a HIMS AME that you are comfortable with and discuss. Put it all out there in its entirety to your AME. IF you become part of a FAA investigation for any reason, you are likely toast. Don't just think bent metal, could be something as simple as a missed radio call that resulted in a loss of separation. Especially in the 135/121 arena. If you disclose your omission and come clean, it seems unlikely that you will be referred to the OIG.. however, you may still have your certificates revoked. If the FAA finds out of their own accord, they will be more harsh in punishment.

A bit of advice regarding this message board. It will leave you with an anxiety disorder if you let it. The members that frequent this board are probably not the best source for sound advice. They have read from the gospel of the 2 AMEs who routinely post here and now think that they themselves are fit to answer any and all complex medical certification questions.

Go see your trusted AME. Be honest. With full details presented, ask him or her the question.... What are my options? Should I retire? Should I get a lawyer? Will I likely get prosecuted? Don't ask these questions of random people on the net.

Go now and never return to this thread.

Regards,
Some Guy On The Internet
Click to expand...

noted. I have spoke with the union medical and legal guys and they echoed the same. My reach out for info on here was 100% counter productive (with the exception of a few reply’s)

to everyone, thank you for your time. Don’t ever get in the sitch that I am in. Have a great life.
 
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 365 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.
Back
Top