Throw away your paper charts...

TangoWhiskey

TangoWhiskey

Touchdown! Greaser!
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OK, I'm not really suggesting that you throw away paper charts. There's something... comforting... about a chart medium that doesn't require batteries and won't "blue screen" on you.

However, with a new AC91-78 released this week, titled "Use of Class 1 or Class 2 Electronic Flight Bag", the FAA is officially sanctioning the use of electronic charts on portable or installed cockpit displays in lieu of paper charts.

AC 91-78 said:
6. REMOVAL OF PAPER FROM THE COCKPIT FOR OPERATIONS UNDER PART 91.

a. EFBs/ECDs can be used during all phases of flight operations in lieu of paper reference material when the information displayed meets the following criteria:

(1) The components or systems onboard the aircraft which display precomposed or interactive information are the functional equivalent of the paper reference material.

(2) The interactive or precomposed information being used for navigation or performance planning is current, up-to-date, and valid.

NOTE: Supporting reference material such as legends, glossaries, abbreviations, and other information is available to the pilot but is not required in the cockpit during operation.

b. The in-flight use of an EFB/ECD in lieu of paper reference material is the decision of the aircraft operator and the pilot in command. Any Type A or Type B EFB application, as defined in AC 120-76A may be substituted for the paper equivalent. It requires no formal operational approval as long as the guidelines of this AC are followed.

c. It is suggested that a secondary or back up source of aeronautical information necessary for the flight be available to the pilot in the aircraft. The secondary or backup information may be either traditional paper-based material or displayed electronically.
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Cool stuff. I was reading somewhere (possibly Flying magazine) that Jeppesen had quite a role in the discussion about this Advisory Circular with the FAA.

The company my dad flies for uses dual EFBs in the Citations and they work pretty well for SIDs, STARs, and IAPs, but they're pretty crappy for enroute charts. He still carries his own set of Jepp hi altitude enroute charts because you can't easily/quickly find things on the enroutes via tablet PC.

Paper will always be there in the cockpit, the question is really just to what extent.
 
Now if only the 430 would give me MDAs and DHs...
 
This may bring software changes for even the G1000. One can hope! I'd rather have chart data integrated with existing data. That makes a lot more sense than have a separate EFB. Then paper or an EFB could be the back up.
 
I've always wanted to be paperless. I like the eFlybook, but I'm a Jeppesen guy.
 
So what kind of devices have they got for this paperless cockpit? Can you get approach plates AND nav charts or what?

I assume there will be subscription fees out the wazoo too...
 
Subscription fees, not necessarily; the NACO charts are public domain.
 
I like the idea of paperless. I always buy the danged approach plates for IFR X/C, use them maybe once, then toss em. Waste of paper.
 
I've been out in the middle of the Pacific with no juice. NONE. I like paper. It cannot fail.
 
bbchien said:
I've been out in the middle of the Pacific with no juice. NONE. I like paper. It cannot fail.
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I'm with Bruce -- I can lose all my aircraft electrical power, and still get down with my paper charts, ICOM handheld comm, and Lowrance handheld GPS. Unless I'm flying something with a multibus electrical system and redundant power sources, I'll choose paper.
 
bbchien said:
I like paper. It cannot fail.
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Didn't the dog ever eat your homework? :D

I've had the capability to be paperless for a bit over a year now, with Chartview on my MX20 and Chartcase on a tablet. But I can't seem to leap all the way to paperless yet. I'm with Jason's Dad in finding the electronic enroutes hard to use. And I prefer shooting an approach off a paper plate rather than a tablet - much easier to handle and it doesn't spontaneously go into "standby" on you - so I print out my expected approaches and alternates. I don't expect this AC will change my in-cockpit routine much.

Regards,
Joe
 
The people at eFlyBook say: "eFlyBooks have low power consumption and are usable for days on a single charge."

I started to look at this solution. The tablet can display any PDF and gives you a surface to write on them. I was thinking I could print my JeppView's routepack with strip charts to PDF then use the eFlyBook to display the trip.

It's spendy at $1500.
 
I am also with Bruce and Ron... I wouldn't want to be without a paper back up, but on a day that I'm flying IFR and it's certain that it'll be VMC, and there's no chance of IMC (it could happen), I'd like to not have to buy 200 pages of plates that I won't use.
Shoot, I have about a half dozen out dated NACO plates that are still in the shrink wrap.
 
I toyed with the idea of getting an EFB recently (before I bought the 496) and decided that I'm not ready to make the jump to an electronic device for this role....not yet at least.

I like the simplicity and reliability of grabbing the paper charts.

That said, I think this AC paves the way for more people to start using it as their primary resource (without paper backup) and I will be interested to hear the experiences.
 
Gee, I'll go out on a limb here and agree with Ron and Bruce. ;)

I've had too many weird computer issues occur, be they desktop, mainframe, handheld, Windows, Mac, Palm, CP/M (yeah, that's an oldie), VAX/VMS, yada yada, yada, to trust my only life to a computer. Sure, I fly a G1000 cockpit, but that's more for resale value. Gimme a paper backup anytime.

I've thought about EFBs now and again. I just haven't seen, for me, a convergence of utility/convenience/price yet.
 
jdwatson said:
The people at eFlyBook say: "eFlyBooks have low power consumption and are usable for days on a single charge."

I started to look at this solution. The tablet can display any PDF and gives you a surface to write on them. I was thinking I could print my JeppView's routepack with strip charts to PDF then use the eFlyBook to display the trip.

It's spendy at $1500.
Click to expand...

I like the concept - But, I won't be blowing any money on one anytime soon. The biggest issue, IMHO, is that the screen is too small to display an entire plate, and the screen updates very slowly so you can't necessarily see every part of the plate with a quick glance.

I love gadgets, but this one is WAY too 1.0 (or even 0.8) for my tastes. I had a lengthy conversation with them at OSH and they're supposed to be adding a "zoom" feature as well as enroute charts in the next few months. This time next year, it might be a very nice product.
 
I didn't know you couldn't see the whole plate. Ewww. That would be a deal breaker for me. I'm looking for something the same size as my Zuluworks kneeboard. I like to scribble so it's gotta be writable, Jeppesen compatible too. I don't mind having to "print" everything to PDFs, but they have to be viewable without too much scrolling around.

Thank for the report !
 
I have been plateless for nearly a year now. I have an MX20 with chartview and JeppView on a tablet. The chances of both failing are about the same as the charts being sucked out the window. It's more likely that the electronic info will be up to date than a traditional jepp subscription.

Frankly, I see no particular reason as a non-commercial operator why I needed this AC (or it's restrictions). There's no specific regulatory requirement for charts to begin with.
 
flyingron said:
I have been plateless for nearly a year now. I have an MX20 with chartview and JeppView on a tablet. The chances of both failing are about the same as the charts being sucked out the window. It's more likely that the electronic info will be up to date than a traditional jepp subscription.
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Concur with all of the above. Since the tablet has a separate power source, I'd be OK with this set-up.
 
I bought a ChartBook from Flightprep last week. I concur that a backup is needed. It was a little over $2000 for the entire setup. This includes a convertible laptop running Windows XP, power adapter for 12 and 24 volt systems, a bluetooth receiver for the laptop, a bluetooth GPS receiver, a kneeboard mount for the laptop, and a copy of Flight Prep Chartcase which can be installed on up to 3 computers (one on the laptop, one on my work laptop, and one on my work desktop).

So, many of you are probably familiar with the free version of their software. With the full Chartcase version, you can print out a "trip kit" before you go. This includes sectionals/tacs/wacs/enroute and so on. Its slick because the sectionals are printed out on 8.5x11 pages, with your route printed on them. You end up with several pages, each covering a bit of your route.

It also has the approach plates, where the entire thing is visible on the screen at once, though you can zoom in. The GPS receiver lets you plot your position and track on any of the charts, including the plates.

I havent been up in the air with it yet, but I have tested it on X-Plane, a flight simulator I have at home. The cool part is that you can fool the Chartbook into thinking it is in the cockpit, but it is just getting GPS data from the computer running the flight simulator. Very cool - much cheaper/safer to learn the system in my living room than in the plane.

So far I am very pleased with the setup. The laptop is convertible, that is, the screen rotates and then flops on top of the keyboard. With the touchscreen you can operate the thing in "in flight mode" using the route you planned earlier on the ground with the keyboard.

I'm not aware of any other solution that is so affordable. There is a similar program out there called Voyager which looks a bit more capable than Chartcase, but not much. Also, Voyager looks like it needs to run on a powerful tablet costing maybe $3000 itself. Chartbook is a simple little computer designed by Intel for use by school kids. Flight Prep takes the computer and upgrades it in a few ways to make it fast enough to run their software, so the hardware is relatively affordable.

Has anyone else out there used this setup? I would like to hear about your experiences using this package in the air.

--Brent
 
btorrenga said:
I bought a ChartBook from Flightprep last week. I concur that a backup is needed. It was a little over $2000 for the entire setup. This includes a convertible laptop running Windows XP, power adapter for 12 and 24 volt systems, a bluetooth receiver for the laptop, a bluetooth GPS receiver, a kneeboard mount for the laptop, and a copy of Flight Prep Chartcase which can be installed on up to 3 computers (one on the laptop, one on my work laptop, and one on my work desktop).

So, many of you are probably familiar with the free version of their software. With the full Chartcase version, you can print out a "trip kit" before you go. This includes sectionals/tacs/wacs/enroute and so on. Its slick because the sectionals are printed out on 8.5x11 pages, with your route printed on them. You end up with several pages, each covering a bit of your route.

It also has the approach plates, where the entire thing is visible on the screen at once, though you can zoom in. The GPS receiver lets you plot your position and track on any of the charts, including the plates.

I havent been up in the air with it yet, but I have tested it on X-Plane, a flight simulator I have at home. The cool part is that you can fool the Chartbook into thinking it is in the cockpit, but it is just getting GPS data from the computer running the flight simulator. Very cool - much cheaper/safer to learn the system in my living room than in the plane.

So far I am very pleased with the setup. The laptop is convertible, that is, the screen rotates and then flops on top of the keyboard. With the touchscreen you can operate the thing in "in flight mode" using the route you planned earlier on the ground with the keyboard.

I'm not aware of any other solution that is so affordable. There is a similar program out there called Voyager which looks a bit more capable than Chartcase, but not much. Also, Voyager looks like it needs to run on a powerful tablet costing maybe $3000 itself. Chartbook is a simple little computer designed by Intel for use by school kids. Flight Prep takes the computer and upgrades it in a few ways to make it fast enough to run their software, so the hardware is relatively affordable.

Has anyone else out there used this setup? I would like to hear about your experiences using this package in the air.

--Brent
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I have a Samsung Q1 (Ultra Premium) tablet PC which I use for IFR approach chart backup running Jepp's FlightDeck. I also have Jepp approach charts on the MFD in my panel and carry Jepp lo-enroutes in paper form. I don't have a lot of time with the Q1 and FlightDeck so far but I'm starting to get used to it. I'm not using it for enroute charts since I rarely need those and the paper charts don't take up much room.
 
In the G1000 airplanes with either Chartview (NACO) or Jeppview (Jepp) charts I am happy with them in lieu of paper procedure charts. However, I still prefer the paper enroute charts, particularly when I get a reroute and have to look on the chart to make sure I understand and can accept the new route - it's tough to do that quickly on-screen if the reroute is several hundred miles away.

I get my NACO plates on a DVD every two weeks, and print hard copies as needed. Much easier than dealing with the paper, and I always have the tablet in the cockpit if I have to go somewhere else and don't have the chart printed.
 
I seem to be headed to the Chartbook. I've been asking about it on a separate EFB thread. Glad I found this. Here's the link: http://www.flightprep.com/rootpage.php?page=HomeEFB

I've used Chartcase pro on a laptop in the past as a back up, so, I know how it works. My Dell laptop is too big to effectively use in the cockpit, so, it was just a back up.

I still plan to have my approach chart printed, but really need high and low altitude enroute charts; terminal charts, VFR charts and approaches. I've found on long, cross country flights, I don't want to carry all those for all the states I fly over. So, this would be an excellent solution. Also, I have had to divert in the past and didn't have approaches for an area I needed (never expected to have to go there). I've also had the pilot shop run short of something I needed or it was closed when I had to go at the last minute. So, I really like having a national subscription with all charts. I still buy some and print the approaches where I plan on going with an alternate.

Thanks for the insight. With these, the 430/530 and 496, I feel pretty confident.

Best,

Dave
 
Likewise, I always have a paper chart with me if I'm doing a cross country ... Even if i've flown it a bunch of times before and have a GPS with me. I may never pull the chart out ... but I don't trust technology. There's No such thing as a computer system with 100% uptime.

Even 99.999% uptime is still 5 minutes of Downtime per year. With my luck that 5 minutes will kick in a mile outside of a TFR, or something.
 
mbond said:
Likewise, I always have a paper chart with me if I'm doing a cross country ... Even if i've flown it a bunch of times before and have a GPS with me. I may never pull the chart out ... but I don't trust technology. There's No such thing as a computer system with 100% uptime.

Even 99.999% uptime is still 5 minutes of Downtime per year. With my luck that 5 minutes will kick in a mile outside of a TFR, or something.
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I have a Flight Cheetah FL150 on the way, should be here this week. Coupled with the 430, All I need is paper to scratch down clearances. If the FL150 proves to be a bit small, I was told w/in 30 days I can upgrad to the 190 with just the price difference betwen then two required. Sort of a 30 trial-to-upgrade period. The chances of both systems failing at the same 5 minutes during the year, pretty much never going to happen.
 
bbchien said:
I've been out in the middle of the Pacific with no juice. NONE. I like paper. It cannot fail.
Click to expand...

I like paper too!, but everything has an exception, A friend had an old airplane that the door popped open once in awhile, guess what got sucked out the door.
In the scheme of things batteries or electrical systems fail more often than a door latch:rolleyes:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I like the concept - But, I won't be blowing any money on one anytime soon. The biggest issue, IMHO, is that the screen is too small to display an entire plate, and the screen updates very slowly so you can't necessarily see every part of the plate with a quick glance.

I love gadgets, but this one is WAY too 1.0 (or even 0.8) for my tastes. I had a lengthy conversation with them at OSH and they're supposed to be adding a "zoom" feature as well as enroute charts in the next few months. This time next year, it might be a very nice product.
Click to expand...

I've got a zoom feature for my paper charts---- I go from 1.50 to my 3.00 pair of reading glasses. I also have a lighted magnifing glass (I suppose the battery could crap out on that)
I like my steam gauges and paper
 
the TV isn't on the dining room table, but that table has doubled as a workbench in the past. How many of you could get away with cutting plywood in the dining room with a skilsaw? Out comes the shop-vac, easy peasy lemon squeezie.

You're just jealous you have to get everything cleared through a committee. :D
 
EdFred said:
the TV isn't on the dining room table, but that table has doubled as a workbench in the past. How many of you could get away with cutting plywood in the dining room with a skilsaw? Out comes the shop-vac, easy peasy lemon squeezie.

You're just jealous you have to get everything cleared through a committee. :D
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Nah, not moi.

I shake my head when I talk about bikes or planes or shooting and some poor sap says, "Your wife lets you do that?"

:frown2:
 
EdFred said:
the TV isn't on the dining room table, but that table has doubled as a workbench in the past. How many of you could get away with cutting plywood in the dining room with a skilsaw? Out comes the shop-vac, easy peasy lemon squeezie.

You're just jealous you have to get everything cleared through a committee. :D
Click to expand...

i can. except it was a circular saw. and i was cutting 2x4's not plywood.
 
dmccormack said:
Nah, not moi.

I shake my head when I talk about bikes or planes or shooting and some poor sap says, "Your wife lets you do that?"

:frown2:
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Go ahead, turn the kitchen and dining room into a workshop for three days and let me know how things work out with the wife, Ward.
 
EdFred said:
Go ahead, turn the kitchen and dining room into a workshop for three days and let me know how things work out with the wife, Ward.
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I did for three weeks when I remodelled the kitchen.

But it's far easier to work in one of our three outbuildings -- the garage, the barn, or the large shed. :D
 
I'm not talking a remodel. I'm talking using the countertop in place of a couple of sawhorses and plywood. LMK.
 
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