Thoughts on a Cherokee 140 as a learner & 1st plane

iamtheari said:
You can also open it while taxiing and stick your hand out to scoop in fresh air. Some planes have a flip-out plastic scoop that is mounted to the window that serves this purpose without sticking your hand out there.
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Not sure if they ever had a factory scoop but this is the one I have. Just remember to close it for take off and don't try to use it in flight.

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Chesterspal said:
Wondering if I can get some input on buying a Cherokee 140 to earn my PPL in and then have as my own plane afterwards?

From what I've read, it seems to be an easy plane to fly and even easier to land, offers decent economy fuel wise and reasonable repair and overhaul costs.

The con I'm concerned about is it is supposedly underpowered. I assume that means it has a hard time getting up to altitude??

What can you folks tell me about this issue?

Let me add that, for the most part, I would be flying alone with my dog, Chester, so not using those tiny rear seats for much but some clothing, etc.

Thanks
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I instructed at a Piper school that had a fleet of PA-28s and ferried a number of them from Florida to Seattle, crossing the Rockies with plenty to spare. It is an excellent choice for a first plane.

Bob Gardner
 
What can I expect to pay for a pre-buy inspection on a 140 if the plane had it's annual within the last, say, six months?

I see where some say to "make it an annual" when you do the pre-buy. Cannot see how you can do this unless you have paid for the plane.

Is there an online directory of mechanics that do this or is it a matter of calling around the specific area to find someone and hope for the best?
 
Chesterspal said:
Is there a standard form used to purchase a used plane? Something that states each others responsibilities?

Also, if I find a plane I like, how to I go about holding it until I can get it inspected, etc. Is there a certain deposit amount and is it refundable should the deal fall through?

Thanks!
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By now you should be a member of AOPA - there are sales forms and many other useful documents on the website.
 
Chesterspal said:
What can I expect to pay for a pre-buy inspection on a 140 if the plane had it's annual within the last, say, six months?

I see where some say to "make it an annual" when you do the pre-buy. Cannot see how you can do this unless you have paid for the plane.

Is there an online directory of mechanics that do this or is it a matter of calling around the specific area to find someone and hope for the best?
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Anyone with an FAA cert (pilots, flight attendants, ATC, and A&Ps) are all in the FAA Airmen database. But.....you want to find one close to you with good reputation. Find other cherokee/piper owners in your area and ask for recommendations. And who to stay away from, is often more important!

https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/AcftRef_Inquiry.aspx

You can also download the entire FAA database into excel and slice & dice to find an A&P in your area:
https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/releasable_airmen_download/
 
I just flew a Cherokee from Benton, AR to Hammond, LA to Vicksburg, MS and back to Benton, AR this past Sunday. 534miles round trip. Did it VFR at altitudes ranging from 6,500' - 8,500'. It was an amazing experience. As much as I hate only having one door and having to crawl over seats, I can't really recommend a better value for your money.
 
A new wrinkle...

Some 140's have toe brakes, some do not and some only on the left side.

I ran this by my CFI and he said (along with sending me the links to the FAA regs so I have these already) he was fine teaching me with toe brakes only on the left side but there could be an issue down the road should I need to find another CFI for some reason or if the FAA inspector for my check ride or two-year re-certification is not comfortable in a plane with no toe brakes on the right side.

Comments
 
Chesterspal said:
A new wrinkle...

Some 140's have toe brakes, some do not and some only on the left side.

I ran this by my CFI and he said (along with sending me the links to the FAA regs so I have these already) he was fine teaching me with toe brakes only on the left side but there could be an issue down the road should I need to find another CFI for some reason or if the FAA inspector for my check ride or two-year re-certification is not comfortable in a plane with no toe brakes on the right side.

Comments
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Hand brake works fine. As for the DE, not all airplanes have toe brakes, so if they won’t flyin an airplane without them, find someone else. It’s your money.
 
Chesterspal said:
A new wrinkle...

Some 140's have toe brakes, some do not and some only on the left side.

I ran this by my CFI and he said (along with sending me the links to the FAA regs so I have these already) he was fine teaching me with toe brakes only on the left side but there could be an issue down the road should I need to find another CFI for some reason or if the FAA inspector for my check ride or two-year re-certification is not comfortable in a plane with no toe brakes on the right side.

Comments
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As far as I know most/all Cherokees have a handbrake so toe brakes aren't even needed since the steering is done much different than Cessna. I have never had to use the toe brakes while steering the Cherokee. In fact, one of the Cherokee's I fly doesn't have toe brakes on either side. We just use the handbrake to stop. Really should be a non factor with any CFI/Examiner.
 
Mike Moon said:
As far as I know most/all Cherokees have a handbrake so toe brakes aren't even needed since the steering is done much different than Cessna. I have never had to use the toe brakes while steering the Cherokee. In fact, one of the Cherokee's I fly doesn't have toe brakes on either side. We just use the handbrake to stop. Really should be a non factor with any CFI/Examiner.
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My father learned to fly in 140's back in the late 60's. IIRC none of the "Flite Liner" versions were equipped with toe brakes. I don't recall anyone ever thinking it was an issue.

Interesting here we are 50 years later and people are still flying them.
 
Love the Cherokee 140. I think it is a fantastic choice for training as well as general flying.
 
alfadog said:
https://www.savvyaviation.com/home/savvy-services/savvyprebuy/
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I've read a bunch of very useful and helpful articles by Mike Busch, and based upon that I respect him a great deal, so I feel awkward making the following comment... but I will anyway. I clicked on that link, and it probably is a very useful service, but the $750 typical charge he quotes for his assistance based on the information at that link doesn't actually include the inspection.. just logbook inspections, review and guidelines to protect the seller's interest, and ASSISTANCE with finding a competent person to perform the inspection with his guidelines. You'd still have to pay for the inspection on top of the $750 bucks. I don't know how much a prebuy inspection typically costs, but, negating any squawkds or required repairs, my annuals cost less than $750. For someone with deep pockets investing in a high dollar aircraft, spending the extra $750 up front probably makes sense, and may even make sense on a "lowly" (I own one.. it's not a value judgement or negative) Cherokee if a buyer truly can find no one to trust in the area or places a very high value on complete security. However, would it not double or triple the price of a typical prebuy inspection?
 
MuseChaser said:
I've read a bunch of very useful and helpful articles by Mike Busch, and based upon that I respect him a great deal, so I feel awkward making the following comment... but I will anyway. I clicked on that link, and it probably is a very useful service, but the $750 typical charge he quotes for his assistance based on the information at that link doesn't actually include the inspection.. just logbook inspections, review and guidelines to protect the seller's interest, and ASSISTANCE with finding a competent person to perform the inspection with his guidelines. You'd still have to pay for the inspection on top of the $750 bucks. I don't know how much a prebuy inspection typically costs, but, negating any squawkds or required repairs, my annuals cost less than $750. For someone with deep pockets investing in a high dollar aircraft, spending the extra $750 up front probably makes sense, and may even make sense on a "lowly" (I own one.. it's not a value judgement or negative) Cherokee if a buyer truly can find no one to trust in the area or places a very high value on complete security. However, would it not double or triple the price of a typical prebuy inspection?
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I did not look that closely at what he is offering but I don't have a beef with $750 to coach a new buyer through the purchase process. We all know there are expensive pitfalls out there. That said, $750 for a $800K Cirrus or a $20K Champ sounds a bit arbitrary. Perhaps he is negotiable. Still, again, I do not think the $750 is terrible, even for the Champ.
 
To answer Chesterspal questions about prebuys and annuals...The Piper PA28 Service Manual has an entire chapter devoted to each type of maintenance (Section III) - 50 hr & 100 hr. This is the list that a reputable shop will use AS A STARTING POINT for prebuy and/or annual. I've attached the first page as an example.
 

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