This upset me more than maybe it should have

cowtowner

cowtowner

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Cowtowner
Flew up to Illinois to a small town grass strip Christmas Eve to visit my parents.
We flew out Christmas Day because Sunday there was supposed to be some weather coming in.

There was a 172 tied down on the field and the wife and I parked next to them. They were still there when we left. This is a small town, everybody knows everybody. Straight out of a Norman Rockwell painting.

Today the airport manager called me (he and I have become friendly) to see if I had seen the guy in the 172 on Christmas Day. Told him I hadn't and he then told me the FSDO called him today.
Seems the guy didn't make it home. They were wondering what fuel he got at the airport. Manager told him that he filled up with mogas from the station in town.

Fuel starvation in IFR conditions and he wasn't rated. Killed him and his wife.

He was in this little town for the same reason I was. Visiting his parents for the holidays

The weather in the Midwest was unseasonably warm, but with that came a strong southern wind. Made it great going to Illinois, but I made two stops heading home for fuel because of the headwinds.
I don't even like letting my Cherokee get below 15 gallons. Plus I like to stretch my legs and go to the bathroom

This crash has me mad at this guy and sad for his family. I told my wife about it today and she's really upset. Listening to his ATC calls I wonder why he didn't just turn back north with the wind at his back and find fuel. Maybe it was too late by then.

 
It won’t let me watch it without signing in and I refuse to sign into Youtube.

But I can see that upsetting someone, it would have me.
 
I can't see listen to it either.
But yes, it would upset me, too.
 
Simulation and the ATC recording does not match up which makes it a bit odd to listen to.
this was fuel starvation??
 
In some way or another, your reaction merely indicates that you’re wiser for knowing.

painful though it may be.

it’s the price you pay for wisdom. Easy stuff is free...
 
Yeah that would have upset me also. I’m not real close with my dad but he’s flown commercial around the world (mostly bush and cargo). Listening to him share stories of the pilots he knew that bought the farm is … frightening in a sense.
 
I heard of this case, and it upset me as well ( I flew IFR in the same area that day, and the weather was horrible). But, I think it upset me for a different reason, and I'm not going to say it here because the guy is dead, and I'm not going to bash a dead guy more than just to say his flight was truly unbelievable.
 
cowtowner, I keep my plane at the small airport that you and the accident airplane were visiting and just heard about this accident last night. It is hard to understand how the pilot got into this situation. Prayers go out to his family.
 
Country Flier said:
I heard of this case, and it upset me as well ( I flew IFR in the same area that day, and the weather was horrible). But, I think it upset me for a different reason, and I'm not going to say it here because the guy is dead, and I'm not going to bash a dead guy more than just to say his flight was truly unbelievable.
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I'll say it. If it turns out fuel exhaustion was the issue, it's a stupid reason to die. We need to stop.being so stupid. Add to that non rated instrument flying? Luckily he didn't take any innocent life, outside of his own ac with him.
 
Rgbeard said:
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Nothing to be upset about. It’s a predictable outcome.
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Maybe, but it is infuriating to see pilots put themselves and others in these types of predicaments. These types of accidents are wholly avoidable, but the pilots involved either don't understand, or don't respect, the risks involved.

I had a older gentleman once come to me for a Flight Review and IPC. He literally had not flown at all in the last two years, longer since doing any appreciable instrument work. I warned him up front, I did not foresee this being a one flight kind of deal given the amount of time since he had last flown. He in turn was not very happy with the younger CFI telling him he was not capable of flying his own airplane, that he had flown for the last 20 years. The entire reason for his desire to get current was to undertake a trip half way across the country, into mountainous terrain, and he had no qualms about flying that trip with his wife in IMC.

We ultimately went out and flew, with the expected result. When I refused to sign off either the FR or IPC without further training, he told me he was going on this trip in two weeks, whether I signed him off or not. I said that's fine, but if you kill yourself and your wife, it won't be with my signature in his logbook.
 
PaulS said:
I'll say it. If it turns out fuel exhaustion was the issue, it's a stupid reason to die. We need to stop.being so stupid. Add to that non rated instrument flying? Luckily he didn't take any innocent life, outside of his own ac with him.
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Darwin wins. I think it’s more case it makes rest of us look bad and destroys a perfectly good airplane.
Survival of the less stupid. I say. We seem to be getting a lot new people into the hobby and some of them don’t know what they don’t know and don’t care to ask.
upload_2022-1-11_11-13-48.jpeg
 
Texan Pilot said:
Unfortunately, the pilot took his girlfriend’s life as well.
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2021/12/accident-occurred-december-26-2021-near.html
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He was texting in the middle of an emergency? Wondering if it was his girlfriend texting on his phone...
The Fulton County (Arkansas) Sheriff’s Office was provided copies of text messages the pilot sent to a family member while in flight. One text message stated, “ran into weather can’t see anything” and another text message later stated, “out of gas in air.”
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midwestpa24 said:
Maybe, but it is infuriating to see pilots put themselves and others in these types of predicaments. These types of accidents are wholly avoidable, but the pilots involved either don't understand, or don't respect, the risks involved.

I had a older gentleman once come to me for a Flight Review and IPC. He literally had not flown at all in the last two years, longer since doing any appreciable instrument work. I warned him up front, I did not foresee this being a one flight kind of deal given the amount of time since he had last flown. He in turn was not very happy with the younger CFI telling him he was not capable of flying his own airplane, that he had flown for the last 20 years. The entire reason for his desire to get current was to undertake a trip half way across the country, into mountainous terrain, and he had no qualms about flying that trip with his wife in IMC.

We ultimately went out and flew, with the expected result. When I refused to sign off either the FR or IPC without further training, he told me he was going on this trip in two weeks, whether I signed him off or not. I said that's fine, but if you kill yourself and your wife, it won't be with my signature in his logbook.
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Yes, as a flight instructor, you have a different position in the game than that of a casual observer.

I don't have the kind of relationship here that you would with a FR candidate/student/learner.

I could walk by someone unknown to me, throwing knives in the air, trying to learn to catch them bare-handed, and simply think to my self: this will probably end poorly for them.

I see nothing to be upset about past the bad marks this leaves on General Aviation, and what it's bound to do to the insurance rates.
 
This guy was from near my home town. I didn't know him nor do any of my friends who still live in Bono. As a kid, I hunted deer on nine mile ridge where the crash site was located.
 
Morgan3820 said:
Darwin wins. I think it’s more case it makes rest of us look bad and destroys a perfectly good airplane.
Survival of the less stupid. I say. We seem to be getting a lot new people into the hobby and some of them don’t know what they don’t know and don’t care to ask.
View attachment 103638
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Or listen and take heed if they do
 
Dana said:
Gethomeitis.
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What I was thinking. Reinforces for me the idea that "got to stick to the rules": what weather is acceptable and what is not, alt landing options, never fly when you have to, accept honest accurate self assessment and assessment from others (CFI) on what you can and can't do with your proficiency today, etc.
 
I have a hard time understanding fuel exhaustion in GA.
I have watched some of the air safety videos. One in particular was I think IFR rated guy, ortho surgeon I think, missed approach after missed approach he ran out of fuel.
Any idea how long this guy was in the air? I looked at FlightAware and couldn’t really get a feel for time and flight track. Looks like a lot of data missing. Getting mogas off field sounds like it makes it hard to truly top off the tanks right?
 
midwestpa24 said:
Maybe, but it is infuriating to see pilots put themselves and others in these types of predicaments. These types of accidents are wholly avoidable, but the pilots involved either don't understand, or don't respect, the risks involved.

I had a older gentleman once come to me for a Flight Review and IPC. He literally had not flown at all in the last two years, longer since doing any appreciable instrument work. I warned him up front, I did not foresee this being a one flight kind of deal given the amount of time since he had last flown. He in turn was not very happy with the younger CFI telling him he was not capable of flying his own airplane, that he had flown for the last 20 years. The entire reason for his desire to get current was to undertake a trip half way across the country, into mountainous terrain, and he had no qualms about flying that trip with his wife in IMC.

We ultimately went out and flew, with the expected result. When I refused to sign off either the FR or IPC without further training, he told me he was going on this trip in two weeks, whether I signed him off or not. I said that's fine, but if you kill yourself and your wife, it won't be with my signature in his logbook.
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Do you know if he took the trip anyway? What happened?
 
I listened to it start to finish. It is not as scary or off-putting as some other ATC conversations I've heard. The pilot, while dealing with a higher stress level than normal didn't seem to be in a panic. He realizes that he's out of fuel in one tank, and a minute or two later the other as well. He repeatedly states that he needs to try to get to where the weather is better. Probably a decent lesson for all of us: If the weather (as you can reference from the ground) is going to be such that when you're up there you want to get to where it's better, either go where it's better to begin with or don't go.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
That’s got to be the most hacked site in the internet…apparently they don’t have a good web service.
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I think this was more to do with it being an age restricted video. I couldn't view it embedded in PoA, but I could once I went to the video in youtube (where I was already logged in)
 
Many years ago, also while flying back home after the holidays, I listened as a non-rated twin ran out of fuel after ATC attempted to talk him thought the cloud layer several times. I could tell how terrible it was for the controller as he told her that his last engine had quit. I did check the news feeds later and all survived with only minor injuries. The bases were about 1000' MSL, so he had a little time to get his act together and pick an impact location.
It's always the holidays...
 
flyingpreacher said:
I listened to it start to finish. It is not as scary or off-putting as some other ATC conversations I've heard. The pilot, while dealing with a higher stress level than normal didn't seem to be in a panic. He realizes that he's out of fuel in one tank, and a minute or two later the other as well. He repeatedly states that he needs to try to get to where the weather is better. Probably a decent lesson for all of us: If the weather (as you can reference from the ground) is going to be such that when you're up there you want to get to where it's better, either go where it's better to begin with or don't go.
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The pilot saying "shut up" at 29:58 is pretty priceless.

I believe his GF understands what's about to happen more than he does.

https://archive.liveatc.net/karg/KARG1-ZME-Dec-26-2021-2300Z.mp3
 
I didn't try to watch the video, but if he was talking with a controller, I feel terrible for the controller. I'm sure they did every possible thing to try to rescue the guy out of his own problem, but they'll be second guessing that conversation forever.
 
Jim_R said:
But what's that got to do with Kathryn's Report?

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Because Kathryn's Report is hosted on a blogger domain from the looks of the layout, and blogger is owned by Google.

ETA: You do not have to be logged into Google or blogger to view content on a site hosted by blogger, but it may try to get you to log in if it thinks you have an account.
 
Jim_R said:
But what's that got to do with Kathryn's Report?

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Oops! I failed to notice that the link being referred to was Kathryn's Report, and not the video linked in post #1. :redface:

It looks like SkyChaser's answer is the correct one. When I go to that site and scroll down to the bottom where it says "Enter your comment...", it knows that I'm already signed into my Google account.
 
Albany Tom said:
I didn't try to watch the video, but if he was talking with a controller, I feel terrible for the controller. I'm sure they did every possible thing to try to rescue the guy out of his own problem, but they'll be second guessing that conversation forever.
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Well said.
I started to listen to the audio but stopped - I heard all I needed to in the first few minutes. Complacency? Laziness? I can do no wrong?
 
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