This is why GA is going to die ...

[Palmpilot]

If you think documentation = quality, or if the parts with the FAA sticker don't come off the exact same machine and the exact same assembly line, we're done here...

Have you got a mouse in your pocket?

 

[Henning]

If you think documentation = quality, or if the parts with the FAA sticker don't come off the exact same machine and the exact same assembly line, we're done here.

Enjoy that alternator belt with higher "quality" because someone wrote a PMA number on it with a sharpie and threw it in the other box.

We can discuss further once you figure it out.

It does not guarantee it, you cannot provide a guaranty over criminal behavior, you can only do what you can to protect against it, and this is really the only practical way to facilitate that.

We are looking at more rule changing that will exempt certain aircraft in non commercial applications from required participation in that protection service and allow owners to take quality control of their parts supply into their own hands relieving them of the liability. Until then though, they have the liability and can be sued, and that would cost the taxpayers.

You can assume this liability right now really. There's no one particular checking if your plane is in annual (or that entries are genuine), or for uncertified identical replacement parts, unless you have an accident. You can even make it through a ramp check with no problems unless you have obvious stuff wrong going on. You just can't insure that liability. Hopefully that will change soon.

 

[denverpilot]

It does not guarantee it, you cannot provide a guaranty over criminal behavior, you can only do what you can to protect against it, and this is really the only practical way to facilitate that.



We are looking at more rule changing that will exempt certain aircraft in non commercial applications from required participation in that protection service and allow owners to take quality control of their parts supply into their own hands relieving them of the liability. Until then though, they have the liability and can be sued, and that would cost the taxpayers.



You can assume this liability right now really. There's no one particular checking if your plane is in annual (or that entries are genuine), or for uncertified identical replacement parts, unless you have an accident. You can even make it through a ramp check with no problems unless you have obvious stuff wrong going on. You just can't insure that liability. Hopefully that will change soon.

Operating illegally is not the point of the conversation.

And that sharpie number on the part from the same bin that NAPA pulls them from doesn't guarantee a damn thing. You only think it does.

It's a lovely feeling little white lie. Emotional content only. No substance.

 

[denverpilot]

Here, let's expand. Show me mathematically where writing that number on the NAPA part significantly changed belt failure rates.

 

[N3368K]

AC 23-27 is a good read on this subject if you are maintaining a plane whose TCDS was approved prior to January 1, 1980...which most our planes are.

Regarding belts, batteries and bearings specifically...

Jim R
Collierville, TN

N7155H--1946 Piper J-3 Cub
N3368K--1946 Globe GC-1B Swift
N4WJ--1994 Van's RV-4

 

[denverpilot]

AC 23-27 is a good read on this subject if you are maintaining a plane whose TCDS was approved prior to January 1, 1980...which most our planes are.

Regarding belts, batteries and bearings specifically...

Jim R
Collierville, TN

N7155H--1946 Piper J-3 Cub
N3368K--1946 Globe GC-1B Swift
N4WJ--1994 Van's RV-4

Which actually makes my point. No difference.

 

[txflyer]

Here's another example of STC PMA'd madness...

Cessna spring clip brake line retainer for C-180G gear leg. $250.00 each.




My friend and local RV-8 builder made one in less than thirty minutes. No charge. And he made it look exactly like the OEM part. It's still working after ~20 hours flying....

I primed and painted them red for some color and corrosion, and it helps you notice if they're on or off ... Next on my wish list are new stainless covered brake hoses and re-paint the calipers or blast them and leave them raw ... haven't made up my mind on that yet. :wink2:

 

[Bill]

Identical design maybe. Identical quality, not a chance. Certified aviation parts have to be fully documented down to the nuts and bolts as well as the metal suppliers and the quality of metal.

We manufacture hermetic electronic packaging, are AS9100 certified, and often get orders for parts that need certification. The amount of documentation/testing/measurement is extensive, basically the manufacturer HAS to provide proof of materials certification, testing, and dimensional measurement for every note and every dimension on the drawing. Also, many PO's are accompanied by a quality document, some 15-20 pages long. ALL of the quality provisions in these documents must have a paper trail verifying compliance. It's a lot of work.

Our "base" price for AS9100 cert is $5k, and it goes up from there depending on complexity. AS9100 also requires flowdown, so any subs you use must do similar certification and that cost of course flows back up.

Thus, the $9000 hammer, etc.

 

[James331]

The FAA is selling Cessna parts??

Wow, who would have thunk it?

Another golden nugget of sage knowledge.

...You know exactly what he was saying about the FAA.

 

[Henning]

Operating illegally is not the point of the conversation.

And that sharpie number on the part from the same bin that NAPA pulls them from doesn't guarantee a damn thing. You only think it does.

It's a lovely feeling little white lie. Emotional content only. No substance.

As I said, I believe it guarantees nothing. Where do you think I buy my Gates belts? Guess what, that's not operating illegally, that's an owner produced part cross referenced as identical.

 

[Henning]

AC 23-27 is a good read on this subject if you are maintaining a plane whose TCDS was approved prior to January 1, 1980...which most our planes are.

Regarding belts, batteries and bearings specifically...

Jim R
Collierville, TN

N7155H--1946 Piper J-3 Cub
N3368K--1946 Globe GC-1B Swift
N4WJ--1994 Van's RV-4

Glad you posted that. I was trying to explain the battery deal to a guy who was lamenting that one or the other brand battery did not list his plane. I told him if it was the same series he was good to use whatever brand he pleased, but I couldn't remember where that reference was.

 

[Henning]

Here's another example of STC PMA'd madness...

Cessna spring clip brake line retainer for C-180G gear leg. $250.00 each.




My friend and local RV-8 builder made one in less than thirty minutes. No charge. And he made it look exactly like the OEM part. It's still working after ~20 hours flying....

I primed and painted them red for some color and corrosion, and it helps you notice if they're on or off ... Next on my wish list are new stainless covered brake hoses and re-paint the calipers or blast them and leave them raw ... haven't made up my mind on that yet. :wink2:

And there is not one FAA inspector who will ever give a rat's ass either. People worry about too much irrelevant bull****.

 

[Stewartb]

The flapper itself is nowhere to be found with a price posted. Part #0750133-7

So all you Cessna carburetor flyers out there treat your airbox heat flappers like gold.

We're going to drill out and re-rivet new gasket material around it while we're at it. Cut and create our own, because the metal is good.

Did you expect your air box to last longer than 50 years? No offense but most owners would have the entire air box overhauled occasionally. Mine was done at engine swap. The motor mount was repaired and re-certified at the same time. From my observations I'm pretty typical. It's what guys do.

 

[txflyer]

Did you expect your air box to last longer than 50 years? No offense but most owners would have the entire air box overhauled occasionally. Mine was done at engine swap. The motor mount was repaired and re-certified at the same time. From my observations I'm pretty typical. It's what guys do.

Not necessarily, but I don't expect a wing nut for it to cost $200 either.

We are re-building it. Ourselves.

I ordered a kit for it. The kit comes with two new bushings, the through rod, and a new arm for the rod and retaining pin.... it was $300.00 for the kit. The new bushings are nitrile or some kind of plastic type seated bushing. It's supposed to cut down on vibration wear, so that this does not happen as quickly as the old metal bushings.

 

[N801BH]

Not necessarily, but I don't expect a wing nut for it to cost $200 either.

We are re-building it. Ourselves.

I ordered a kit for it. The kit comes with two new bushings, the through rod, and a new arm for the rod and retaining pin.... it was $300.00 for the kit. The new bushings are nitrile or some kind of plastic type seated bushing. It's supposed to cut down on vibration wear, so that this does not happen as quickly as the old metal bushings.

..........

 

[Henning]

Not necessarily, but I don't expect a wing nut for it to cost $200 either.

We are re-building it. Ourselves.

I ordered a kit for it. The kit comes with two new bushings, the through rod, and a new arm for the rod and retaining pin.... it was $300.00 for the kit. The new bushings are nitrile or some kind of plastic type seated bushing. It's supposed to cut down on vibration wear, so that this does not happen as quickly as the old metal bushings.

Is that the kit from McFarlane?

 

[txflyer]

Is that the kit from McFarlane?

Affirmative.

All I can say is, the carb airbox on these older Cessna's is like gold.

If I lived in Arizona or some dry climate and had some land, I might be thinking I want to become the Sanford and Son of aircraft ...

 

[txflyer]

I got a picture of the actual bracket today.

It saddles and rivets to the rod. As you can see, it would not be an easy part to fabricate to spec because of the saddle.

But still, $250.00 for one is a bit much ...

 

[Henning]

I got a picture of the actual bracket today.

It saddles and rivets to the rod. As you can see, it would not be an easy part to fabricate to spec because of the saddle.

But still, $250.00 for one is a bit much ...

But there is a complete aftermarket overhaul kit with both in it for less than the cost of the brackets alone. So really, the overall situation to be able to support it isn't that bad. Do you go to the dealer to buy parts for your field truck?

 

[txflyer]

But there is a complete aftermarket overhaul kit with both in it for less than the cost of the brackets alone. So really, the overall situation to be able to support it isn't that bad. Do you go to the dealer to buy parts for your field truck?

The overhaul kit has only the rod, side bearings, and rod lever in it that we found. And it was $300.

I would be very interested if you could show me a link to a kit with all the parts including the brackets in it for less than one bracket...

And no I don't get any dealer to buy my field truck parts. That would be silly.

 

[Geico266]

Okay, two 4-place EAB. Still...

Velocity.

BTW, an RV-10 doesn't cost $200K to build.