This Feels so Intrusive!

J

Joe Doe

Guest
I'm looking to vent and see if any of you have had this experience....

I recently went to my AME to have my class 3 medical updated (why I did not go with basic med is beyond me, just my luck I guess). Anyways, this is where I'm at now..

During the pandemic my doctor prescribed me an SSRI, I obviously was truthful because I felt I had no reason NOT to be...Welp, bad move apparently, now I'm in this total loop of paperwork that the FAA is requiring of me. Thankfully, my AME was very helpful and referred me to a HIMS AME. After meeting with the HIMS AME, I found out that I have to produce documents from my doctor...ALL DOCUMENTS regarding my health. I also now have to take a cognitive exam with a HIMS Phys (don't get me started on the price here)...however, the paperwork for the doctor is so...well, INTRUSIVE...I get the idea that they want to check my brain and stability...but why do I need to (and WHY should I) give them all this information regarding my family, childhood, doctor visits..etc...

I'm only renewing my class 3 medical, not trying to go pro. I don't mind answering anything that pertains to me, but my brother/mother/grandma...c'mon!! I'm half expecting the FAA to dig up my deceased father and attempt to ask for his medical history. What on earth is going on here?

I really do not feel comfortable diving into all of this information. I've been seeing my PCP for about 5 years (when I finally was hired to a job with insurance). No issue producing these documents for them. But this questionnaire I have, I'm half tempted to skim over these little details as I don't feel that is' the government's business to know every aspect of my medical life from birth until today...
 
As you are a pilot, I wish you would have known you cannot take a SSRI and fly without a SI. IMHO, You need to participate in the cognitive testing process fully.
 
OP are you unhappy? Because that makes the FAA happy. Seriously the FAA medical system is a mess. If I were king the first reform I would make is the ability to convert to a lesser class "medical" (Basic Med or LSA) assuming you are qualified even if you can't get a higher class. Like in your case it makes no sense that a kid with serious depression who has been on SSRIs since he was in high school can fly LSA but a person prescribed them for a short time can't. While we are wishing in one hand...Basic Med should always be an option without a prior medical. Again, it makes no sense that you have to have held a medical once then after that you only need to go back if you have one of the big three.

Personally I plan to never deal with the FAA again for a medical at all if there is any way to avoid it. I will go Basic Med until I can't then LSA until I can't.

Sorry you got bit. Pilots need to have more training on the FAA medical stuff. Any time a doctor even thinks about prescribing you something you need to make sure it isn't on the no go list.
 
DFH65 said:
OP are you unhappy? Because that makes the FAA happy. Seriously the FAA medical system is a mess. If I were king the first reform I would make is the ability to convert to a lesser class "medical" (Basic Med or LSA) assuming you are qualified even if you can't get a higher class. Like in your case it makes no sense that a kid with serious depression who has been on SSRIs since he was in high school can fly LSA but a person prescribed them for a short time can't. While we are wishing in one hand...Basic Med should always be an option without a prior medical. Again, it makes no sense that you have to have held a medical once then after that you only need to go back if you have one of the big three.

Personally I plan to never deal with the FAA again for a medical at all if there is any way to avoid it. I will go Basic Med until I can't then LSA until I can't.

Sorry you got bit. Pilots need to have more training on the FAA medical stuff. Any time a doctor even thinks about prescribing you something you need to make sure it isn't on the no go list.
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Even if the doctor thinks about it maybe it could be a problem if he writes something down. If you don’t know about this stuff it will bite you but if you do you might be reluctant to seek help which is a problem too. Like OP says, bad move to be truthful with your doctor. These days I’m more thoughtful about what I share with my doctor, no more offhand comment about how I’m a bit down because my sister died. But we don’t need people who really do need help afraid to say so because of certification hell.

It’s a mess but it’s a government bureaucracy so it’s a mess by definition.

Another unintended consequence of the lockdown. We are social animals. Isolation at home is bad for your mood, it’s a normal reaction for our species. Feeling threatened by constant media hysteria about the deadly plague, disrupted routines, kids at home, lost jobs and destroyed businesses, a whole lot of “adjustment disorder” and “situational reactions” going on. But apparently the FAA is going to apply the complete anal exam for all these cases too as if these were normal times. After all, there are suicides being caused by these situational reactions.
 
Does the reason for the script matter? I would agree that if you’ve been on an SSRI for some time that it was warranted at some point in your life. I would assume you’d need to prove you’re stable both on and/or off the meds.

However what if you were prescribed an SSRI, it was filled only once, never taken, and documented by pill inventory that it was never taken nor refilled. Would something like that still require the full psych process for a SI?
 
Beaker’s Flyin said:
Does the reason for the script matter? I would agree that if you’ve been on an SSRI for some time that it was warranted at some point in your life. I would assume you’d need to prove you’re stable both on and/or off the meds.

However what if you were prescribed an SSRI, it was filled only once, never taken, and documented by pill inventory that it was never taken nor refilled. Would something like that still require the full psych process for a SI?
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The reason for the scrip is why SSRIs are a red flag. They are prescribed for cases of ADD/ADHD. Even if you don't think you have it, even if the doc or whoever hands it out says, "Here, try this stuff and see if you feel better,", even if whatever, the doc or whoever writes down ADD/ADHD somewhere.
 
As a pilot who also prescribes I actually will bring up,when contemplating a med or when someone is requesting one, that if you EVER have aspirations to be a pilot that we really need to think about if this is really necessary. Too often ppl are looking for a pull fix. Trying to Fix normal reactions to an F’ed up situation.
 
benyflyguy said:
As a pilot who also prescribes I actually will bring up,when contemplating a med or when someone is requesting one, that if you EVER have aspirations to be a pilot that we really need to think about if this is really necessary. Too often ppl are looking for a pull fix. Trying to Fix normal reactions to an F’ed up situation.
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In my case I was reacting to a possible cancer diagnosis and was nervous about the initial indicators that were showing during some of the tests that were done. Granted I could have stayed away from Google and it helped once I accepted my fate. Expressing my concern to my doc led to a “why not try this” situation. I didn’t ask for it, I questioned what it was and suggested it could help with any anxiety I was having related to my situation. He sent the script direct to my pharmacy, I picked it up, actually read the pamphlet that came with the med, and said no friggin way. Called the doc, told him I’d prefer to ride it out. Kept all the pills that are still in the unopened bottle and staples pharmacy bag. Asked that my doc make a note in my record that I didn’t take it but it’s still on there. The whole situation is frustrating to say the least.
 
If you are a pilot you should know you can’t be going to a doctor and getting anti depression drugs. With that said, your problem was an adjustment disorder. Everyone has them. Spouse, parent, child dies, divorce, cancer diagnosis ect.
 
Clip4 said:
If you are a pilot you should know you can’t be going to a doctor and getting anti depression drugs. With that said, your problem was an adjustment disorder. Everyone has them. Spouse, parent, child dies, divorce, cancer diagnosis ect.
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And pilots should know all pertinent information about a flight before departing. And pilots should get the help they need medically and worry about flying later. :rolleyes:
 
Salty said:
And pilots should know all pertinent information about a flight before departing. And pilots should get the help they need medically and worry about flying later. :rolleyes:
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If you medical condition requires treatment, don’t be offended when the FAA wants to assure you are airworthy. Normally a person isn’t sent to HIMS for an adjustment disorder.
 
If your exposure to the SSRI was one time only in your life and it was less than a year, this is not hard to get certified.
 
Clip4 said:
If you medical condition requires treatment, don’t be offended when the FAA wants to assure you are airworthy. Normally a person isn’t sent to HIMS for an adjustment disorder.
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Sure, but the difference is the FAA’s strict efforts have a chilling effect on pilots being open & honest if they truly need help. People say “Get well, then worry about flying later”.

But that is a catch 22 for pilots who have depression, ADHD, anxiety, ect. “Getting better”/acknowledging the problem usually means thousands of dollars in tests, months of delays, and the non trivial amount of stress all that can cause.

And it’s such a bright idea to potentially ground pilots (unless they go through the HIMS path) who acknowledge they may have depression and seek treatment and take away a passion or even livelihood. That wouldn’t deepen their depression at all.

The FAA rewards silence, and seems to punish forthcoming people.
 
ProjectInfinity1 said:
The FAA rewards silence, and seems to punish forthcoming people.
Click to expand...

The FAA is also in a catch-22. Outside of HIMS, the FAA has no ability and no medical basis to perform the analysis that this is a onetime adjustment issue or something more chronic. Even if a onetime event they have no view into the severity and duration.
So how is the FAA supposed to evaluate the situation?
Also consider from the paper pusher side. If they tell you no, you are ****ed. If they tell the Germanwings pilot who committed suicide taking a lot of passengers with him a yes, the paper pusher will be crucified.
So relaxing the standard is all risk, and basically no reward for the FAA.
You combine that with a social attitude that all solutions are just a pill away and it is a recipe for disaster.

Tim

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
 
Joe Doe said:
I'm looking to vent and see if any of you have had this experience....

I recently went to my AME to have my class 3 medical updated (why I did not go with basic med is beyond me, just my luck I guess). Anyways, this is where I'm at now..

During the pandemic my doctor prescribed me an SSRI, I obviously was truthful because I felt I had no reason NOT to be...Welp, bad move apparently, now I'm in this total loop of paperwork that the FAA is requiring of me. Thankfully, my AME was very helpful and referred me to a HIMS AME. After meeting with the HIMS AME, I found out that I have to produce documents from my doctor...ALL DOCUMENTS regarding my health. I also now have to take a cognitive exam with a HIMS Phys (don't get me started on the price here)...however, the paperwork for the doctor is so...well, INTRUSIVE...I get the idea that they want to check my brain and stability...but why do I need to (and WHY should I) give them all this information regarding my family, childhood, doctor visits..etc...

I'm only renewing my class 3 medical, not trying to go pro. I don't mind answering anything that pertains to me, but my brother/mother/grandma...c'mon!! I'm half expecting the FAA to dig up my deceased father and attempt to ask for his medical history. What on earth is going on here?

I really do not feel comfortable diving into all of this information. I've been seeing my PCP for about 5 years (when I finally was hired to a job with insurance). No issue producing these documents for them. But this questionnaire I have, I'm half tempted to skim over these little details as I don't feel that is' the government's business to know every aspect of my medical life from birth until today...
Click to expand...
It's because you're a pilot. If you were trying for a less signficant, unimportant job like president, none of this would be necessary.
 
LesGawlik said:
If you were trying for a less signficant, unimportant job like president, none of this would be necessary.
Click to expand...

Which raises the question, what is the FAA's position on recently-approved Aducanumab? Grounding, because it is supposed to treat Alzheimers, or approved, because in clinical trials it doesn't seem to do anything at all?
 
tspear said:
How so?

Tim

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Government mostly adds rules, many of them unnecessarily restrictive or punitive. They rarely remove rules. It is AOPA's primary mission to enable people to fly. It should a low hanging fruit for them to get FAA to remove unnecessary rules.
 
MountainDude said:
Government mostly adds rules, many of them unnecessarily restrictive or punitive. They rarely remove rules. It is AOPA's primary mission to enable people to fly. It should a low hanging fruit for them to get FAA to remove unnecessary rules.
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LMAO. You are kidding right? AOPA tries to work with the FAA on BasicMed. The FAA blocked every attempt, so then it took over ten years to lobbying Congress to make it happen, as imperfect as it is.

The Part 23 rewrite only happened because NBAA, EAA and AOPA all pushed for it for years. Even the the FAA has dragged it's feet.

Tim

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
 
tspear said:
LMAO. You are kidding right? AOPA tries to work with the FAA on BasicMed. The FAA blocked every attempt, so then it took over ten years to lobbying Congress to make it happen, as imperfect as it is.

The Part 23 rewrite only happened because NBAA, EAA and AOPA all pushed for it for years. Even the the FAA has dragged it's feet.

Tim

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I was not kidding
 
Clip4 said:
We live in a society where too many people believe relief from emotional pain is just a pill away.
Click to expand...

This is an excellent observation and the truth goes beyond what is stated here. As a society we have sought to find a way to take away every pain, discomfort, or dislike that we can. I understand and agree that we should seek to relieve as much suffering as possible but there are times when the cost (not monetary) of relief is not worth the loss that comes with it.

The FAA has to hold a firm line (as noted above). I recently returned from a trip across the country involving several commercial flights. It's quite reassuring when you know all the pieces that are in place so that we can have such a tremendous safety record for commercial air carriers in this nation.

What that being said I do believe that some of what the FAA does with medicals is quite heavy handed. But at the end of the day I don't see a better approach ... considering the tasks they are given and the resources they have available.
 
Daleandee said:
This is an excellent observation and the truth goes beyond what is stated here. As a society we have sought to find a way to take away every pain, discomfort, or dislike that we can. I understand and agree that we should seek to relieve as much suffering as possible but there are times when the cost (not monetary) of relief is not worth the loss that comes with it.

The FAA has to hold a firm line (as noted above). I recently returned from a trip across the country involving several commercial flights. It's quite reassuring when you know all the pieces that are in place so that we can have such a tremendous safety record for commercial air carriers in this nation.

What that being said I do believe that some of what the FAA does with medicals is quite heavy handed. But at the end of the day I don't see a better approach ... considering the tasks they are given and the resources they have available.
Click to expand...

How about … hold a firm line when it comes to commercial operations but butt out when people fly recreationally ( fun fun/traveling etc) - pretty much like we have it set up for all other modes of traveling ..
 
Clip4 said:
We live in a society where too many people believe relief from emotional pain is just a pill away.
Click to expand...
Its true, many turn to meds as a quick fix. All to often, doctors are willing to offer it up without the patient asking. Along with the script is a silent diagnosis that lingers in a record ready to be eaten up by the FAA so it can spit out a denial. Now, hindsight for some, would want to know more about a rx before taking it. However, some people put trust in their doctors and probably had no idea they would want to pursue anything in aviation until later in life.
 
Warmi said:
How about … hold a firm line when it comes to commercial operations but butt out when people fly recreationally ( fun fun/traveling etc) - pretty much like we have it set up for all other modes of traveling ..
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That sounds plausible but the same FAA regulates the big & small players. If one were only flying solo then your proposal might work. Coming from the ultralight world into the Light Sport world we were taught that as far as the FAA was concerned, suicide was legal but homicide was not i.e. if you wanted the right to take a passenger then there were different rules to play by.
 
Warmi said:
How about … hold a firm line when it comes to commercial operations but butt out when people fly recreationally ( fun fun/traveling etc) - pretty much like we have it set up for all other modes of traveling ..
Click to expand...

Because you fly in a system and having airworthy pilots who meet standards make the system work.
 
Daleandee said:
That sounds plausible but the same FAA regulates the big & small players. If one were only flying solo then your proposal might work. Coming from the ultralight world into the Light Sport world we were taught that as far as the FAA was concerned, suicide was legal but homicide was not i.e. if you wanted the right to take a passenger then there were different rules to play by.
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Drivers kill thousands of passengers and other innocent motorists every year, yet there is no Medical requirement.
 
MountainDude said:
The fact that you had a misdiagnosed ADHD 30 years ago makes you not airworthy? No wonder we are where we are, when we have people thinking this makes sense.
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The FAA did diagnose the person, but the person is airworthy until the FAA says your not. I have had many students over the years where it was obvious they had various problems within the first two lessons. In your world you say let them fly. Medical or not, my signature for a solo or practical test would never be in their logbook and I agree with the FAA’s position. A person saying their condition was misdiagnosed 30 years ago doesn’t make it fact.
 
Clip4 said:
Because you fly in a system and having airworthy pilots who meet standards make the system work.
Click to expand...

There is absolutely no evidence that your typical Cessna driver presents any danger to the system .. regardless if he is rectally examined every so often by the system representative or not.
In other words the system is mostly designed to justify continuous existence of the system in the first place.
 
Warmi said:
There is absolutely no evidence that your typical Cessna driver presents any danger to the system .. regardless if he is rectally examined every so often by the system representative or not.
In other words the system is mostly designed to justify continuous existence of the system in the first place.
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Ah, but you do not know, since you are trying to prove a negative. Further, the FAA does not share the details of denials in such a way that you could then gather the data to attempt to prove your case.
The most significant counter argument is the occasional pilot who commits suicide in such a way that others are endangered.

Here is an older article on it. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2015/3/26/8294971/pilot-suicide-crash

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
 
Daleandee said:
Point taken. But the FAA don't regulate the roads.
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Which is a blessing. We would all need DOT medicals, our cars would require 100 hour inspections, we wouldn’t be allowed to do our own repairs, aftermarket air and oil filters would require government approval,......
 
Clip4 said:
If you are a pilot you should know you can’t be going to a doctor and getting anti depression drugs....
Click to expand...
I don't think that particular knowledge is a required part of the pilot training syllabus.
 
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MountainDude said:
Drivers kill thousands of passengers and other innocent motorists every year, yet there is no Medical requirement.
Click to expand...

Double standard, because most of the general public drive cars themselves and wouldn’t tolerate such invasion, but only a few elite “rich people” (cough) fly recreational aircraft so nobody objects to subjecting them to the strictest controls.

Add to that risk perception. When crashes are very common and affect a lot of people (ground vehicles), they tend to be ignored by the media and the public. When relatively few happen (airplanes) it makes big news and the public perception is, “it’s a big problem!” Exact opposite of reality: it’s actually the cars that are the public menace.
 
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