This could work. I need 9 people with ~$15k each and we are in business!

JoseCuervo said:
Again, you can't make snow this early.

Here is the forecast. You only have a few hours in the next 10 days below 32. And lots of much higher temps.

You likely are missing the issues with the ski area if you think snow making is the key to turning it into a successful venture.
Click to expand...

Jayzuz crispy christ! Do you bother to READ posts before replying?

if it's cold enough

I've done this before. Nowhere did I say this is the key to turning into a successful venture. It's a way to put snow at a snow ski area where there is no snow. Get it yet? Why don't you look up why they are struggling before blathering about snow making.
 
docmirror said:
Jayzuz crispy christ! Do you bother to READ posts before replying?



if it's cold enough



I've done this before. Nowhere did I say this is the key to turning into a successful venture. It's a way to put snow at a snow ski area where there is no snow. Get it yet? Why don't you look up why they are struggling before blathering about snow making.
Click to expand...


Or....


docmirror said:
If they want to open on turkey day, they need to start making snow right now.
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Again, you don't make snow in October in Idaho.

If you want to ski in Idaho on Thanksgiving, you need cold weather and a few storms the week before Thanksgiving. Only Sun Valley makes snow for Thanksgiving openings in Southern / Central Idaho.

If you want to be working on somethings in October, it should be maintaining lift equipment, greasing groomers, ordering food for the lodge, and hosting job fairs for enough people to run a resort from late November thru April 15.

Snowmaking on Soldier would be folly.
 
To get this place up and running for this year would have to be next to impossible...permitting, hiring staff, run inspections, lift inspections, new equipment, etc. etc. etc.

But if a realistic plan was put together I know myself and a few other investors who would be willing to pony up some cash. .....




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bigD1031 said:
To get this place up and running for this year would have to be next to impossible...permitting, hiring staff, run inspections, lift inspections, new equipment, etc. etc. etc.

But if a realistic plan was put together I know myself and a few other investors who would be willing to pony up some cash. .....




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...



Forest Service permit is likely not a big deal. The FS knows what is going on, and, assuming new operator wants to operate within the permit limitations in place, may not be much of an issue.

Bigger issues include the items you listed, and other issues like finding an insurer willing to write the policy, a banker willing to extend a line of credit for working capital, etc...

And smaller issues like clearing brush on cat tracks, runs, etc....

Making snow ain't an issue.
 
The challenge with Soldier is not getting snow on the mountain. It is getting skiers and snowboarders on the mountain.

Whoever gets the resort better have a viable marketing plan to put buts on the seats of the chairlifts. Not a plan for irrigating the hillsides in October.

Soldier will not be a destination or resort type of place in the near future, and likely, forever. The best chance for a destination type of visitor is 10-20 years off, if, and when, the FAA decides to build the replacement airport for Sun Valley / Hailey 40 miles from Sun Valley. A lot of opposition to moving the airport that far from the Valley.

People that want a destination resort will go to Sun Valley, not Soldier.

The second marketing challenge is that people from Boise won't go there. Boise has a better mountain 16 miles from town, with night skiing, and, most importantly, really cheap season passes.

If you can't get destination visitors, and you can't compete with Bogus for the Boise crowd, you are left with three groups to market: Military from Mt Home Air Base, Twin Falls residents, and local ranchers.

That is a small potential market, and a big potential challenge.
 
Published: Feb 15, 2015 at 6:34 PM MDT Last Updated: Feb 15, 2015 at 7:21 PM MDT

Soldier Mountain calling it a season after Monday»PLAY VIDEO
Soldier Mountain will close its chairlifts after Monday but will continue its backcountry ski trips for at least a couple more weeks.
FAIRFIELD, Idaho (KBOI) - One Idaho ski hill is turning off its chair lifts for the rest of the season after Monday.

"It does make me sad because I want to go again,' said one young skier.

Soldier Mountain will just rely on its backcountry terrain after the holiday weekend.

"The snow gets thin enough where we feel it's a danger to our skiers," said winter sports director Steve Mitchell. "It's time to close it down. It will expose dry patches and rocks. Without Mother Nature cooperating it is really hard for us to continue operations."

sigh,,,,,,,
 
Snowmaking is expensive. Don't know the details but Magic Mt in VT went through the usual bust new owner bust cycle and now run as a bargain ski area that is only open when there is natural snow. Guessing that model works if you don't have a big note to pay and there are people that will show up when it is good. I'd like to see someone buy it and run it as a speedflying specialty mountain. Add snowmobile hillclimb racing and the like. Screw trad skiers and boarders, embrace adrenaline snow sports and give them a place to play.
 
Phoenix said:
Snowmaking is expensive.

Don't know the details but Magic Mt in VT went through the usual bust new owner bust cycle and now run as a bargain ski area that is only open when there is natural snow.
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Yep.

Soldier's weakness is not a lack of snowmaking.

Even last year, as referenced above, when they shut down in Feb, Bogus also shut down early, in the middle of March. There is no way you can spend enough money irrigating ski runs in warm Feb and March weather and convince people to not go to Bogus and drive to Soldier.

The problem is not snowmaking.

The opportunity is not in the snow making.
 
On the other hand, partial list of CO ski areas that make snow almost every year:
Aspen
A-Basin
Breck
Copper
Crested Butte
Eldora
Keystone
Loveland
Ski Cooper
Steamboat
Sunlight
Vail
Winter Park

Note one more time please, making snow is not the point! having a PERMIT to make snow is the point. Last time, fini, now argue amongst yourselves.
 
docmirror said:
On the other hand, partial list of CO ski areas that make snow almost every year:

Aspen

A-Basin

Breck

Copper

Crested Butte

Eldora

Keystone

Loveland

Ski Cooper

Steamboat

Sunlight

Vail

Winter Park



Note one more time please, making snow is not the point! having a PERMIT to make snow is the point. Last time, fini, now argue amongst yourselves.
Click to expand...



Not a single one of those is within 8 hour drive of Soldier.

Soldier does not compete with Colorado ski hills.

All those you listed in Colorado also are located near places where you can buy legal pot, and that Coors beer product of all-Colorado ingredients.. Just as irrelevant to Soldier as a list of Colrado snow makers.
 
I google mapped the place and it looks like it's in the weeds. Boise is a long way and there's no town or city nearby.

So I'm leaning to agree with JC the problem is going to be putting butts in chairs even when there's good snow.

At that price, why not just buy it and have your own ski vacation home? That'd be pretty cool to have your own bug out vacation home in Idaho with a chairlift. :wink2:
 
What are the taxes on that place? (we can look up any assessed taxes in Tx; maybe possible in Id too?)
 
If you buy it, I'll take the winter off just to drive the groomer :D

I would put in 10% just to do that.
 
I received all the details as well yesterday and looked things over. The assets that convey are likely easily worth the price tag of $150K if you can snatch it up for that.

I have a feeling you will need to be on the inside to make this deal happen. Is there a reason a non-profit couldn't be setting this up for auction? Something just feels fishy about the way they are handling this.
 
JasonM said:
I have a feeling you will need to be on the inside to make this deal happen. Is there a reason a non-profit couldn't be setting this up for auction? Something just feels fishy about the way they are handling this.
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There can be a problem with a non-profit selling an asset below fair market value. This is more of an issue with insiders and I am not sure whether it could affect an unrelated buyer.
 
I still own two houses in Mountain Home from when I was stationed there. When the snow is good, Soldier is great. Short lift lines, cheap tickets and close to Mtn Home. The CAT skiing was great too.

A bunch of my friends from those years are also in the hunt to get this thing going.


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txflyer said:
At that price, why not just buy it and have your own ski vacation home? That'd be pretty cool to have your own bug out vacation home in Idaho with a chairlift. :wink2:
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This was my initial reaction when I found the info. I was just going to shut up and buy it, use it for my family and friends. However - I'm almost certain that you need to abide by the terms of the USFS permit. When I shopped the other ski area I was interested in the permit was for 'public use'. Which the USFS admin running the deal said that you didn't have to charge money, but it must be open to the public for xx days per year(I forget the number) snow permitting. I asked specifically about keeping it for personal use and he said 'no way'. Fairly sure this permit is going to be worded very similar. I'm not sure, but I think this was Bruce Willis idea as well, and he found out he couldn't shut it out to the public and just use it himself.

On a similar note, I found a chair lift for sale complete. I was looking for the right piece of land, out in the middle of CO somewhere that isn't on USFS land I could buy and just put in my own lift, but the logistics of doing that are pretty messy.
 
JasonM said:
I received all the details as well yesterday and looked things over. The assets that convey are likely easily worth the price tag of $150K if you can snatch it up for that.

I have a feeling you will need to be on the inside to make this deal happen. Is there a reason a non-profit couldn't be setting this up for auction? Something just feels fishy about the way they are handling this.
Click to expand...

According to the inside guy I chatted with(who will remain nameless) briefly they have > 200 qualified buyers right now. The process will come down to grooming ability, and a dedication to keeping it open no matter what. they can't legally discriminate, but there may be some shenanigans going on behind the curtain. Most of those buyers are cash guys like me, and they are strongly discouraging a financing package. They want someone who can pay cash, buy the grooming cats separate($120k), buy the magic carpet separate($60k), get the snowmaking equip rented or bought, and open in late Nov this year. That's the track they are headed for.

So, as I see it, the $149k gets you an invitation to the ball, but you still need another +$200k to make things happen and it needs to be done in a month. This is a commitment they are looking for. I said thanks but no thanks. If it was 10 years later, and I was retired I would move there, and get busy but it's not gonna happen for me.
 
Couldn't you just hire a kid to drive your snowmobile for less then reinstalling a chairlift.
docmirror said:
This was my initial reaction when I found the info. I was just going to shut up and buy it, use it for my family and friends. However - I'm almost certain that you need to abide by the terms of the USFS permit. When I shopped the other ski area I was interested in the permit was for 'public use'. Which the USFS admin running the deal said that you didn't have to charge money, but it must be open to the public for xx days per year(I forget the number) snow permitting. I asked specifically about keeping it for personal use and he said 'no way'. Fairly sure this permit is going to be worded very similar. I'm not sure, but I think this was Bruce Willis idea as well, and he found out he couldn't shut it out to the public and just use it himself.

On a similar note, I found a chair lift for sale complete. I was looking for the right piece of land, out in the middle of CO somewhere that isn't on USFS land I could buy and just put in my own lift, but the logistics of doing that are pretty messy.
Click to expand...
 
Phoenix said:
Couldn't you just hire a kid to drive your snowmobile for less then reinstalling a chairlift.
Click to expand...

Of course, but they all I have is a kid driving a snowmobile and not a private chair lift. :)
 
I worked a season as a snowmaker at Killington in the early 90's they claimed it cost $100,000 per day to make snow. Lots of energy, lots of money. Killington's snowmaking operation was VT's 5th largest polluter. Granted Killington ran more guns then most places, point is snowmaking ain't cheap. I'm not familiar with Western skiing, but my guess is if they are going for snowmaking it will be back on the market for the same or less in a year or two.:yikes:
docmirror said:
According to the inside guy I chatted with(who will remain nameless) briefly they have > 200 qualified buyers right now. The process will come down to grooming ability, and a dedication to keeping it open no matter what. they can't legally discriminate, but there may be some shenanigans going on behind the curtain. Most of those buyers are cash guys like me, and they are strongly discouraging a financing package. They want someone who can pay cash, buy the grooming cats separate($120k), buy the magic carpet separate($60k), get the snowmaking equip rented or bought, and open in late Nov this year. That's the track they are headed for.

So, as I see it, the $149k gets you an invitation to the ball, but you still need another +$200k to make things happen and it needs to be done in a month. This is a commitment they are looking for. I said thanks but no thanks. If it was 10 years later, and I was retired I would move there, and get busy but it's not gonna happen for me.
Click to expand...
 
Phoenix said:
I worked a season as a snowmaker at Killington in the early 90's they claimed it cost $100,000 per day to make snow. Lots of energy, lots of money. Killington's snowmaking operation was VT's 5th largest polluter. Granted Killington ran more guns then most places, point is snowmaking ain't cheap. I'm not familiar with Western skiing, but my guess is if they are going for snowmaking it will be back on the market for the same or less in a year or two.:yikes:
Click to expand...

I posted my list of ski areas in CO that make snow. I'm not going to debate this anymore. Here's the crawl on Keystone just put up this weekend: "Winter is around the corner!
Keystone Resort will open Friday, November 6th for winter. Buy your season pass now to enjoy skiing and riding all season long."

It's a SNOW ski area. No snow = no ski. Do, don't, make money, lose money.
 
docmirror said:
According to the inside guy I chatted with(who will remain nameless) briefly they have > 200 qualified buyers right now. The process will come down to grooming ability, and a dedication to keeping it open no matter what. they can't legally discriminate, but there may be some shenanigans going on behind the curtain. Most of those buyers are cash guys like me, and they are strongly discouraging a financing package. They want someone who can pay cash, buy the grooming cats separate($120k), buy the magic carpet separate($60k), get the snowmaking equip rented or bought, and open in late Nov this year. That's the track they are headed for.

So, as I see it, the $149k gets you an invitation to the ball, but you still need another +$200k to make things happen and it needs to be done in a month. This is a commitment they are looking for. I said thanks but no thanks. If it was 10 years later, and I was retired I would move there, and get busy but it's not gonna happen for me.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they weren't going to sell it to a guy that was trying to scrape together 9 other guys to raise $149k.

There are tons of people that can scratch a check for $149k without needing help, including many in the local area.


A non-profit, community organization's main criteria to selling it is to keep the hill open, and stable as a community asset. It is not "shenanigans" to evaluate the best proposal that meets the objective. The group was given the resort by Bruce Willis, they have a duty to the community.

The successful group that gets it will have already lined up their operating lines of credit, they will have already contacted the local radio stations for marketing rates, they will have an insurer ready to underwrite, etc.

I would be willing to bet that the eventual buyer already had somebody hiking the mountain this weekend to see the work needed in the next 40 days. The successful bidder has already contacted the last couple of General Managers to see if he can find a GM ready to step in that knows the mountain.

They already have proposal packets at the printer, ready to travel to Fairfield.
 
Phoenix said:
I worked a season as a snowmaker at Killington in the early 90's they claimed it cost $100,000 per day to make snow. Lots of energy, lots of money. Killington's snowmaking operation was VT's 5th largest polluter. Granted Killington ran more guns then most places, point is snowmaking ain't cheap. I'm not familiar with Western skiing, but my guess is if they are going for snowmaking it will be back on the market for the same or less in a year or two.:yikes:
Click to expand...


Unless things have changed, my understanding of snowmaking is that every day you run the guns, you lose money.

On Soldier, once it gets cold enough to make snow, you likely are getting storms that will provide the snow.

Also, fake snow has such a bad reputation, I don't think it would drive anybody to purchase lift tickets at Soldier. I can't imagine how it could.
 
EvilEagle said:
I still own two houses in Mountain Home from when I was stationed there. When the snow is good, Soldier is great. Short lift lines, cheap tickets and close to Mtn Home. The CAT skiing was great too.

A bunch of my friends from those years are also in the hunt to get this thing going.


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Good luck to your friends, and, if they are Mt Home-centric, then they might have a chance at success as they know Mt. Home people. I think the potential market is pretty concentrated in Mt. Home, Twin Falls, Jerome, Gooding, and the prairie for day trippers, casual skiers. Whoever is successful is going to do it by creating skiers and boarders out of families in those areas who are looking for an activity.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Yeah, they weren't going to sell it to a guy that was trying to scrape together 9 other guys to raise $149k.

There are tons of people that can scratch a check for $149k without needing help, including many in the local area.
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Well, if you're really that concerned, I can write the check. Since you are such a blowhole about this - I posted the thread as kind of a light hearted joke. All you've done is come in here and be the turd in the punchbowl of a funny thread. So, thanks ****wad for your posts, and reminding me why I really, really hate people sometimes.

Get a life.:rockon:
 
Well, back to the drawing board.

Angel Fire in New Mexico is very convenient for Texans. Pretty too. One of my uncle's had a place there back in the seventies when he had a GA plane.

Anytime I start down the path of owning a fun house it always comes back around to it's cheaper and easier on me to rent. Play and pay and then walk the hell away. I already have more than I can maintain practically. Renting also allows us to try different places. But the dream is always there to own a mountain cabin or a lake house or a canal house. I just need to hit that lotto. :wink2:
 
txflyer said:
Well, back to the drawing board.

Angel Fire in New Mexico is very convenient for Texans. Pretty too. One of my uncle's had a place there back in the seventies when he had a GA plane.

Anytime I start down the path of owning a fun house it always comes back around to it's cheaper and easier on me to rent. Play and pay and then walk the hell away. I already have more than I can maintain practically. Renting also allows us to try different places. But the dream is always there to own a mountain cabin or a lake house or a canal house. :wink2:
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You are so right. I got the mtn house near enough to Breck and Keystone already. Best skiing in the world now, and at 4pm, I take off the skis and it's over for the day. Go back tomorrow and ski again.

I don't worry about snow, or fixing the grooming cat, or the ski rental guy got stoned, and broke his arm when he fell down the stairs, or a small fight between the ski instructors, or a lift de-rope, or out of bounds skiers lost in the back canyon and hunting them down at 9 that night so they don't freeze. All things I had to do at Pajarito when I worked there.
 
docmirror said:
You are so right. I got the mtn house near enough to Breck and Keystone already. Best skiing in the world now, and at 4pm, I take off the skis and it's over for the day. Go back tomorrow and ski again.



I don't worry about snow, or fixing the grooming cat, or the ski rental guy got stoned, and broke his arm when he fell down the stairs, or a small fight between the ski instructors, or a lift de-rope, or out of bounds skiers lost in the back canyon and hunting them down at 9 that night so they don't freeze. All things I had to do at Pajarito when I worked there.
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Pajarito.....lol, that is one of my old stomping grounds. I lived in NM for 15+ years and besides skiing it, we also frequented Taos, Santa Fe, Ruidoso (in college), Red River and Angel Fire. Been a long time since Pajarito had a decent snow year...maybe this year with "el Nino".

I really like Taos as a mountain, (the ridge-which now has a lift) but always felt it lacked some of the fun things of being on a mountain (entertainment and places to stay close by.) We ended up buying land to build a cabin right across the street from Durango (which is a great place to ski and hang out) and hopefully will be able to build on it within the next few years.


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docmirror said:
Well, if you're really that concerned, I can write the check. Since you are such a blowhole about this - I posted the thread as kind of a light hearted joke. All you've done is come in here and be the turd in the punchbowl of a funny thread. So, thanks ****wad for your posts, and reminding me why I really, really hate people sometimes.



Get a life.:rockon:
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If you hate people, you likely aren't well served by trying to raise money from other people and providing a service to the public.

Probably a good thing for you that you didn't make the first cut to the 200 more credible buyers for Soldier. The community deserves someone who can bring people together and build a coalition to make a community asset into something that serves the community well.

Somebody will end up with the resort, it will be fun to see how they go forward trying to turn it around.
 
Last line of the article:

They will be honoring season passes already sold. Now, they are just praying for lots of snow.

Glad to see it in what looks like good hands. If I get up that way this winter, I'll go by and spend a day. Snow permitting, of course. hehehee
 
Sounds like the vast majority of their problems have been in dealing with government.

Saving us all from the evil capitalist couple trying to get people to slide around in relative safety on boards strapped to their feet in the snow.

Wouldn't want people just traipsing around the woods skiing wherever they felt like it now... Oh wait.
 
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