Thinking about going to a EFB

bgdriveway

bgdriveway

Pre-takeoff checklist
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bgdriveway
I am considering going to some sort of electronic system for my flying. So far, I have only done FAA paper charts, plates, etc. (I didn't like the Jepp plates and they cost more.) I have good using knowledge of computers and such devices, I am always asked "How do you do....X" but I have never had a smart phone or any Apple product. (Never needed a smart phone or wanted to foot the bill, though I am considering it now.) I tend to fly longer XC trips, 500+ miles usually IFR, but if convenient will do VFR. As such, it would be nice to have all the VFR/IFR charts etc on something, but as I tend to fly a lot of IFR a backup is a must. And if I am going to a EFB, why carry paper as a backup that still has to be positioned somewhere I can access it while flying?

It seems to me that primary options are

A - Ipad, with Foreflight or similar. (Yes I just read the IPAD thread)
B - Some version of the Android tablet, but then it might not be supported as well as the Ipad. How's battery life on these?
C - iFly GPS, a good reasonable price, though it is limited to GPS and charts, unlike the Ipad.

For a backup system

1 - If I had an Ipad, the Ifly might not be a bad backup system, but there is the cost, though still cheaper than buying a Garmin.

2 - Would a smart phone, such as the Galaxy SII or an iphone have functionality enough to hold charts etc, in case of a primary system failure? I realize the screen isn't huge, but this IS supposed to be the backup. Price again is a factor, but then if I get more than one function out of a device, that is good. Though I also hate to have a single point of failure.

3 - How about something like a Kindle or the like? Some sort of PDF viewer, I saw one about 3-4 years ago at oshkosh, before the Ipads/kindles/ etc came out. Was a plain jane reader, but only was about $100. Though the other downside to this is that the FAA is doing away with the free access

Comments, suggestions? Am I missing something for either primary or the B/U?
 
Here are two options:

1. iPad (primary), iPhone (backup), both running Foreflight (or other iPad aviation software). Foreflight allows you to have a "free" extra copy of the software for your iPhone if you buy the iPad software, for exactly this purpose. And of course you can use the iPad and iPhone outside of the aircraft.

2. Android tablet (primary), Android phone (backup). Many different choices here for hardware. The Xoom is a popular and effective tablet but there are certainly others. Similar to ForeFlight, the makers of the Avilution software allow you to run it on multiple devices for a single user license. The Avilution software is comparably capable to Foreflight, and in the same price ballpark.

Everyone I know who has flown with a tablet running decent EFB software has never looked back. It is so much more convenient, easier to use, and dare I say it - safer - than paper charts and plates. Continuous scrolling, zoom, own ship position, flight planning, bringing up A/FD information and plates at the tap of a finger on an airport, ... -- quite revolutionary.


I have a standard Kindle. It is awesome for reading e-books. It is no good for most PDFs including approach plates because the screen isn't big enough to show the whole page, and scrolling is intolerably slow due to the screen refresh time. I think the Kindle DX is big enough to use for plates, but frankly I would not bother since there is so much more capability in a true tablet.
 
In terms of backup, the limitation of using a smartphone or Kindle is the one you mention - size (although using a Kindle Fire is the equivalent of using an small Android tablet since it is one. On the base Kindle, I know a lot of folks were originally touting the larger DX as the plate reader of all time and at least one airline was moving in that direction for an EFB.

The worst case scenario in the case of a VFR loss of charts is just to get down to an airport where you can buy a paper chart. That lends itself to a lot of possibilities, including a simple call to Flight Service for a local frequency (assuming you're not already receiving FF).

IFR, you're talking a whole different story.
 
midlifeflyer said:
The worst case scenario in the case of a VFR loss of charts is just to get down to an airport where you can buy a paper chart. That lends itself to a lot of possibilities, including a simple call to Flight Service for a local frequency (assuming you're not already receiving FF).

IFR, you're talking a whole different story.
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Even IFR, it's quite possible for TRACON to read you the details of an approach procedure over the radio, but it is a bigger deal than losing your EFB VFR and it's prudent to carry some kind of backup. Luckily that's easy to do with either an Android smartphone or an iPhone.
 
Unless you're going to use Jeppesen's products, I'd hold off on any EFB decisions until the mess that is FAA charting gets settled. What was free/cheap may not be that way in the new year, and that can have drastic effects on which EFB products survive.


I wonder if Jepp realizes that if they sold a product cheap (say $200-400 per year depending on coverage) for iPads they'd probably get a LOT of customers that eschew them for "cheaper" solutions today.
 
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I use both, the Jepp isn't anywhere as good as ForeFlight app.
I do prefer Jepp charts.
Dave
 
Agreed on the VFR that if you had a problem, just land at a convenient airport. And you can even land NORDO... :wink2:. The exception to the VFR flights would be that I used to fly out of HWY, just outside the SFRA DC airspace mess. There you really ought to know exactly where you are or you will have an opportunity for some aerial photography of high performance jets. Right now, in AK, I have less airspace issues to worry about. (Except for over Anchorage...) But I don't see myself here for a whole lot longer.

Hadn't heard of the Avilution software, but then having not really researched programs for the Android market yet.... Gives me a good place to start.

Yeah I'm aware that a Tracon or whoever could read stuff off to you (or radar approaches), but the explanations are easier if you don't have to get into that with them. If my back up failed, then sure no problem...

So it seems that the answer is go with either an Ipad/Iphone combo, or an Android combo. I was wondering if that was the answer. Thanks for the info on Kindle's. With the description you provided, I think that it would be annoying for the purposes of a B/U on approach plates/charts.

Waiting might not be a bad idea, especially as I am in no rush right now. Though I think I do want to get something by May, as I have a trip planned. I don't really like the Jepp stuff, mostly layout/ personal preference thing. Maybe I'm just used to the FAA stuff.
 
I agree with Grimm. Since I have the Jepp electronic charts they through in the iPad app. It's flightdeck warmed over. Real spiffy when it came out on the PC ten years ago, not so much now compared to ForeFlight. Doesn't even georef the plates.

If you go with foreflight, your iphone can also back up your iPad. It's small but it will work.
 
I've been playing with FF and WingX I like WingX haven't flown it yet but the AeroNav debacle has me wondering if I should have just stuck with paper charts instead of investing over 1AMU in my iThingy, software and accessories.
 
I have an iPad 2 that I got strictly for flying, of course I'm typing on it now.;) But, I really like it with Foreflight, I print a paper copy of the approach plate at my destination before I depart, but for everything else it's all iPad! :D I just have the paper in case the poop hits the fan and the iPad croaks.:mad2:
 
I'm coming to the end of my first year using iPad/Foreflight as my EFB -- maybe 300 hours, including a lot of IFR. Wouldn't change a thing. Obviously, if the cost of Foreflight goes up ten-fold to be even with Jepp's EFB software and subscriptions, I might re-examine that decision, but until then, I'm sticking with what I've got.
 
Sure seems to be a lot of interest and different sources of info. I haven't used any of them and am not sure what they look like. If one has the G1000 with current data base information, is there any need for an iPad or FF, or whatever?
 
I'm decently familiar with the G1000 series, know the redundancies built in to the system. But I still don't like a single point of failure. I'd at least want a smart phone for the back up. And if one screen on a G1000 goes, can you still pull up a approach plate? I don't remember that part.
 
skidoo said:
Sure seems to be a lot of interest and different sources of info. I haven't used any of them and am not sure what they look like. If one has the G1000 with current data base information, is there any need for an iPad or FF, or whatever?
Click to expand...
Without getting into Part 121/135/91F/91K issues, only for preflight planning and filing flight plans. It's hard to carry that G1000 stuff into the FBO, and I don't know of a way to file a flight plan with it.
 
I'm running bot WingX and Foreflight for the year to see which I like better and which is more practical for me. On the WingX side, I really like the terrain option - living out west, altho not depending on it for mountain flying, there are still areas "out on the plains" where terrain is really handy. Other plus to WingX is the display of weather, winds aloft, etc.

On the other hand, I prefer the ForeFlight user interface and how the approach plates are managed.
 
bgdriveway said:
I'm decently familiar with the G1000 series, know the redundancies built in to the system. But I still don't like a single point of failure. I'd at least want a smart phone for the back up. And if one screen on a G1000 goes, can you still pull up a approach plate? I don't remember that part.
Click to expand...

If you have a two display G1000 installation, chartview is not available in reversionary mode.
 
A lot of iPad folks go to fore flight without trying some of the others. For $20 one time fee you get unlimited charts, app plates, diagrams, gps, nrst, basic flight planning with SkychartsPro.

I tried fore flight but didn't feel the need to pay for it because I usually fly a rental with a garmin 430.
 
skidoo said:
Sure seems to be a lot of interest and different sources of info. I haven't used any of them and am not sure what they look like. If one has the G1000 with current data base information, is there any need for an iPad or FF, or whatever?
Click to expand...

I have an MX20 with charts, that I "could" keep current, but I prefer the iPad, it's handy for lots of stuff beyond aviation, I used aviation as an excuse for buying it in the first place. ;)
 
I finally took the plunge a few weeks back, bought and iPad and paid for Foreflight. All I can say is, I really don't want to fly without it. The moving map feature is one of my favorites, because I don't have one in the planes I fly, and it's a bit like a "very poor man's glass cockpit". I also find that the iPad GPS is generally and surprisingly pretty darn accurate on heading and altitude, which was particularly nice on a longhaul flight (for me, 200nm+) I took in unfamiliar territory when the magnetic compass decided to lose its senses and was simply dancing back and forth the whole time (how can the damn thing even go bad, huh? it's the simplest darn "tech" in the entire plane). That, plus the ability to zoom in easily so you can "pilotage" your way around without having to fold and refold the chart and stick it up close to your face to see the faint markings denoting things like electricity lines and poles and all that... it's nice.
 
onwards said:
I finally took the plunge a few weeks back, bought and iPad and paid for Foreflight. All I can say is, I really don't want to fly without it. The moving map feature is one of my favorites, because I don't have one in the planes I fly, and it's a bit like a "very poor man's glass cockpit". I also find that the iPad GPS is generally and surprisingly pretty darn accurate on heading and altitude, which was particularly nice on a longhaul flight (for me, 200nm+) I took in unfamiliar territory when the magnetic compass decided to lose its senses and was simply dancing back and forth the whole time (how can the damn thing even go bad, huh? it's the simplest darn "tech" in the entire plane). That, plus the ability to zoom in easily so you can "pilotage" your way around without having to fold and refold the chart and stick it up close to your face to see the faint markings denoting things like electricity lines and poles and all that... it's nice.
Click to expand...

You did not put the ipad anywhere close to the compass did you?
 
Be aware that Annual subscr prices for EFB data will be increasing significantly ... Due to AeroNav beginning to charge for their data in April.

I am guessing that the annual fees will in the $250-$350 range.
 
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