Thinking about a Twin Bonanza

[mondtster]

I'd generally agree with you, though I think there is one available that can deliver a good dispatch rate and minimize time in the shop, but i'll never know until i do it.

@bradg33 how has dispatch been on yours?

The problem is, the dispatch rate will be fine until you need a hard to find part. The Aztec would likely be running the next day while the T-bone may not run for 6 months in a case like that (ask me how I know about things like this). Is that an acceptable amount of downtime for you?

Despite its appearance, the t-bone needs to be treated like the antique airplane it is. If they were more practical you’d still see more of them around.

 

[bradg33]

I'd generally agree with you, though I think there is one available that can deliver a good dispatch rate and minimize time in the shop, but i'll never know until i do it.

@bradg33 how has dispatch been on yours?

I'll answer that after the trip I'm leaving for this afternoon (don't need to tempt fate).

 

[bradg33]

The problem is, the dispatch rate will be fine until you need a hard to find part. The Aztec would likely be running the next day while the T-bone may not run for 6 months in a case like that (ask me how I know about things like this). Is that an acceptable amount of downtime for you?

Despite its appearance, the t-bone needs to be treated like the antique airplane it is. If they were more practical you’d still see more of them around.

That's nonsense. I don't think there's a single part on the TBone that is likely to need replacing that can't be found within a couple of days if you know where to look (and it's not that hard to figure out where to look). Lots of used parts and several vendors still have large stocks of 50- parts.

 

[mondtster]

That's nonsense. I don't think there's a single part on the TBone that is likely to need replacing that can't be found within a couple of days if you know where to look (and it's not that hard to figure out where to look). Lots of used parts and several vendors still have large stocks of 50- parts.

People say that of the early bonanzas too, yet mine sat down a couple of times for 6+ months at a time while looking/waiting for parts, and the parts I sometimes ended up with were only marginally better than what I had before.

I realize the t-bone community takes care of itself fairly well. But even within that group I recall the consensus being that the t-bone did not have the dispatch reliability or support to be viable for charter type service. The fact that Bemidji is the only operator I'm aware of using the QA/t-bone for revenue service reinforces this.

I realize that's not exactly what we're talking about here but it is hard to deny that there are fewer parts sources and options for a t-bone than there is for an Aztec. How many sources are there for new GO-435 or GO-480 cylinders? How many sources are there for parallel valve IO-540 cylinders? How many prop options are there for T-bones, are they available new, and what is their cost? I think the Aztec will start to look more practical when bigger parts are needed, but thankfully neither of them should need too many.

Believe me, I would really like to have a twin Bonanza or queen air but I don't need another flying project to keep after. I suspect it would be a nearly full time job to keep it in the shape I prefer. I'll stick with twins a couple of decades newer, they're bad enough.

 

[MIFlyer]

People say that of the early bonanzas too, yet mine sat down a couple of times for 6+ months at a time while looking/waiting for parts, and the parts I sometimes ended up with were only marginally better than what I had before.

I realize the t-bone community takes care of itself fairly well. But even within that group I recall the consensus being that the t-bone did not have the dispatch reliability or support to be viable for charter type service. The fact that Bemidji is the only operator I'm aware of using the QA/t-bone for revenue service reinforces this.

I realize that's not exactly what we're talking about here but it is hard to deny that there are fewer parts sources and options for a t-bone than there is for an Aztec. How many sources are there for new GO-435 or GO-480 cylinders? How many sources are there for parallel valve IO-540 cylinders? How many prop options are there for T-bones, are they available new, and what is their cost? I think the Aztec will start to look more practical when bigger parts are needed, but thankfully neither of them should need too many.

Believe me, I would really like to have a twin Bonanza or queen air but I don't need another flying project to keep after. I suspect it would be a nearly full time job to keep it in the shape I prefer. I'll stick with twins a couple of decades newer, they're bad enough.

Mondtster, what do you fly? I appreciate the perspective

 

[mondtster]

Mondtster, what do you fly? I appreciate the perspective

I've owned a Cherokee, early Bonanza, and a Mooney. I currently own an old Stinson.

In addition to what I own I also maintain a small fleet of airplanes for a friend of mine, who in turn lets me play with them. Among the fleet, he has a few rare airplanes that require extra time and research to properly care for them. To maintain them at the level he prefers it really is a full time job although I just do it in my free time. He also owns an Aztec so I'm quite familiar with what it takes to maintain and fly them.

We've been discussing what to upgrade into from the Aztec for a while now. I've seriously thought about suggesting a T-bone or QA but that wouldn't be a significant enough upgrade to make it worth it. I expect the next single or twin he buys will be pressurized and likely turbine. The big hang up is a 2500' turf runway with 90' trees on three sides that we regularly visit. The Aztec is a great short field airplane that covers this job well but the stuff we're looking at probably won't do it.

 

[MIFlyer]

I've owned a Cherokee, early Bonanza, and a Mooney. I currently own an old Stinson.

In addition to what I own I also maintain a small fleet of airplanes for a friend of mine, who in turn lets me play with them. Among the fleet, he has a few rare airplanes that require extra time and research to properly care for them. To maintain them at the level he prefers it really is a full time job although I just do it in my free time. He also owns an Aztec so I'm quite familiar with what it takes to maintain and fly them.

We've been discussing what to upgrade into from the Aztec for a while now. I've seriously thought about suggesting a T-bone or QA but that wouldn't be a significant enough upgrade to make it worth it. I expect the next single or twin he buys will be pressurized and likely turbine. The big hang up is a 2500' turf runway with 90' trees on three sides that we regularly visit. The Aztec is a great short field airplane that covers this job well but the stuff we're looking at probably won't do it.

Thanks. good perspective on your experiences. The Aztec has a LOT to recommend it, but I might be able to convince the family to fly longer and more if they can hang out in the lounge vs sitting in seats

 

[MIFlyer]

it does look like it needs a lot more runway, so that's a consideration

 

[Ted]

Don't fool yourself - any of these airplanes are old and antiques. Yes, the Aztec has better support than the T-Bone, but Piper couldn't care less about the things overall, and they've been out of production since... I'm pretty sure before I was born. None of them are new, they're all older than you and I are (unless you're a good bit older than I think you are). Even Twin Cessnas can be down for extended periods of time if the right part breaks, ask me how I know. The MU-2 is the best supported airplane I fly, but not all parts are available for it, either. Frankly part of why it's so well supported is because of the number of planes that have been scrapped and are now being cannibalized for parts.

The real benefit to the Aztec is the engines and props are extremely easy to support. The rest of the airframe is hell for stout, so is the T-Bone.

The thing is, you're looking at something that's not a business for-profit tool. So I think the risk is acceptable.

 

[GRG55]

I’ve never walked across a ramp to look at an Aztec.........just sayin’.

Ya, but they have great personalities. Just sayin'

And what's with that Jimmy Doolittle era tail on the Tbone anyway?

 

[flyingron]

I've looked at Arthur Rosenburg's wonderful Aztec on a number of occasions. I just have to watch out when he's around my wife.

 

[Fearless Tower]

And what's with that Jimmy Doolittle era tail on the Tbone anyway?

It identifies as a DC-4

 

[GRG55]

I've looked at Arthur Rosenburg's wonderful Aztec on a number of occasions. I just have to watch out when he's around my wife.

I've admired that plane on the grass at OSH several times.
Yes, I do recognize only another Aztec owner would "admire" an Aztec.

 

[MIFlyer]

I've admired that plane on the grass at OSH several times.
Yes, I do recognize only another Aztec owner would "admire" an Aztec.

View attachment 66427

that's a sharp looking Aztec

 

[GRG55]

Thanks. good perspective on your experiences. The Aztec has a LOT to recommend it, but I might be able to convince the family to fly longer and more if they can hang out in the lounge vs sitting in seats

Depends on how many seats you need, but many of us pull out the RH seat from the 2nd row, which provides a good size open area to facilitate both ingress/egress and conversation during flight for the 3 remaining seats in back.

 

[Kristin]

So, why not a T-bone? There's an active group on Beechtalk, but i wanted to get some broader perspectives.

I'm torn between an Aztec and a T-Bone, and it seems like for a little less money, I can get a big, easy to fly plane that would be super comfortable for family trips.

thoughts? I know the IGSO 480 is geared and requires special care and handling, but wht do folks think?

A T-Bone is god's way of telling you that you have too much money in the bank.

 

[GRG55]

that's a sharp looking Aztec

It's a 1965 'C' that he's owned for a long time. In 1998 he flew it across the North Atlantic and did a two month tour around Scandinavia, east & west Europe and a side trip to Marrakech. Hence all the flags.

 

[MIFlyer]

Depends on how many seats you need, but many of us pull out the RH seat from the 2nd row, which provides a good size open area to facilitate both ingress/egress and conversation during flight for the 3 remaining seats in back.

Thanks GRG (PS, still looking for a tour and/or ride in yours). mostly we'd be 4 up, but there are several profiles I have for using all that weight/space a few times a year.

 

[MIFlyer]

A T-Bone is god's way of telling you that you have too much money in the bank.

Ha, not to worry, it's actually just GSO 480 on this one. No simmons fuel injection.

 

[GRG55]

Thanks GRG (PS, still looking for a tour and/or ride in yours). mostly we'd be 4 up, but there are several profiles I have for using all that weight/space a few times a year.

We'll get back to RNT at some point I expect. Was at YXX last weekend to see the Blues. But the smoke across the PNW right now is unbelievable. I was at 14,000 crossing the rocks and it was like being in an ashtray most of the trip. Not pleasant at all.

 

[MIFlyer]

We'll get back to RNT at some point I expect. Was at YXX last weekend to see the Blues. But the smoke across the PNW right now is unbelievable. I was at 14,000 crossing the rocks and it was like being in an ashtray most of the trip. Not pleasant at all.

Yes, I've been running back and forth between Renton and Kelso in the 182 to take the kids back and forth to grandma's house and I've had to drive a couple due to smoke.

Had my first special VFR return to Renton on one of them, but had a safe out (Thun was clear 5 minutes behind me)

 

[flyingron]

It's a 1965 'C' that he's owned for a long time. In 1998 he flew it across the North Atlantic and did a two month tour around Scandinavia, east & west Europe and a side trip to Marrakech. Hence all the flags.

And Arthur is a hoot. He's about 5' tall and 80 years old and has been making a play for my wife for as long as we've known him. He gave me one very good piece of information once:

Women are like parking spaces. The good ones are all taken and the rest are handicapped.

 

[Kenny Phillips]

I've admired that plane on the grass at OSH several times.
Yes, I do recognize only another Aztec owner would "admire" an Aztec.

View attachment 66427

Step 1: Look at a Pontiac Aztek
Step 2: Admire the beauty that is a Piper Aztek
It's the old theory that one should hang around with people less attractive to one's self, to appear thus more desirable.

 

[MBDiagMan]

I don't know nuthin about them except that callin an airplane T-bone sounds like Bad Juju

Plus, using such slang makes him sound hip and cool, but excludes some from commenting because they don’t know what plane he is referring to. People like myself.

 

[flyingron]

I don't know, T-Bone sounds way cooler than Twinkie.

 

[MIFlyer]

Plus, using such slang makes him sound hip and cool, but excludes some from commenting because they don’t know what plane he is referring to. People like myself.

Sweet Jiminy cricket. Sorry, it’s a Beechcraft B50 Twin Bonanza


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[luvflyin]

Plus, using such slang makes him sound hip and cool, but excludes some from commenting because they don’t know what plane he is referring to. People like myself.

Uh, there is that “Twin Bonanza” thing in the thread title

 

[luvflyin]

Plus, using such slang makes him sound hip and cool, but excludes some from commenting because they don’t know what plane he is referring to. People like myself.

Speaking of T-bone being cool

 

[GRG55]

Plus, using such slang makes him sound hip and cool, but excludes some from commenting because they don’t know what plane he is referring to. People like myself.

@Ted DuPuis, clearly we need a translation table from ramp slang to plain English. Maybe someone can convince Garmin to include that as a new feature in the next GNS/GTN update?

 

[Pilawt]

@Ted DuPuis, clearly we need a translation table from ramp slang to plain English. Maybe someone can convince Garmin to include that as a new feature in the next GNS/GTN update?

Look for it in the next Foreflight update ...

 

[MIFlyer]

@Ted DuPuis, clearly we need a translation table from ramp slang to plain English. Maybe someone can convince Garmin to include that as a new feature in the next GNS/GTN update?

ummm, it's TARMAC slang. i don't know what a ramp is.

 

[luvflyin]

Look for it in the next Foreflight update ...

Noooo!!!!! Don’t give them any ideas. DELETE that post

 

[skmoore63]

Would I know him? Grey T-Bone?

Not sure, His wasn’t gray from what I remember. Goes by “Doc”.

 

[MIFlyer]

I'll answer that after the trip I'm leaving for this afternoon (don't need to tempt fate).

well, how was the dispatch?

 

[bradg33]

well, how was the dispatch?

7 hours round trip, no (new) squawks.

 

[MIFlyer]

7 hours round trip, no (new) squawks.

Very cool. I’ve got to get this past the budget committee. It’s too good to miss


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[bradg33]

Very cool. I’ve got to get this past the budget committee. It’s too good to miss


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I find it best to simply bypass the budget committee all together. TBone expenditures don't need that kind of scrutiny.

 

[MIFlyer]

I find it best to simply bypass the budget committee all together. TBone expenditures don't need that kind of scrutiny.

problem, it's a little big to hide behind the garage.

she said yes after sitting in big green at PWT last weekend, but is pushing to wait a year. my opinion is that the one currently for sale is a really good fit for our priorities and will be much cheaper than buying something else later and doing a lot of the work ourselvesl

 

[labbadabba]

Is there any significant difference between a Twin Bo and a Queen Air?

 

[MIFlyer]

Is there any significant difference between a Twin Bo and a Queen Air?

same wing and spar as I understand. Initially they used the same engines, then updated to the GSIO540's. the fuselage is bigger (good) and heavier (bad) so OEI performance, and short field are compromised.

i haven't looked into them too much