Thinking about a Lathe and Milling Machine

These guys will have most anything you'll need:
https://machinerypartsdepot.com/?ma...oX0vtEmIDkJuXEM00UmkWbiTIm6ff2VhoCNIgQAvD_BwE

I'm guessing you already know this, but most motors that can run on multiple voltages have a diagram in the junction box showing which wires to connect for which voltage/ direction. The wires generally have little numbered labels. If that's all missing you'll have to turn to the internet. My experience with 3ph motors is fairly limited.
 
Oh dear… I’m SO sorry… I didn’t realize you had THAT sort of space. Changes my recommendations significantly! Ha!

If ya want, gimme a shout about wiring it up. I can talk ya through a lot of it.
 
On all my equipment aside from the 1947 12' Cincinnati shear (weighs 23,000 pounds and makes a wallop on 3/8" steel plate) there's jumpers for different voltages phases. Our shop has high leg delta instead of wye and that bastard stinger leg has thrown some for a loop. New shop will be 480 wye. Much smoother for the welders and lower amperage for the new xpr300 plasma.
 
You still need a shaper... because... uhhh... help me out here PoA
 
Well ya… duh… who DOESNT need a shaper? How else ya recondition the table on that b-port?

Gonna need a surface plate about 4’x6’ as well. Don’t worry, that can double as a GREAT pizza dough or fudge making countertop. Just sayin…

Not that I want to peer pressure you (not, that’s totally what I’m doin here) but mine is a teeny tiny 36” open sided Rockford.

(how’d I do?)
 
Racerx said:
1947 12' Cincinnati shear (weighs 23,000 pounds and makes a wallop on 3/8" steel plate)….
Click to expand...

I’m not worthy… I’m not worthy… I’m not worthy
 
Mtns2Skies said:
What a hoss. How are the ways in the center vs the end of travel?
Click to expand...

I haven't run the X and Y axes the full way back and forth. The X I moved some and I can feel some grit for the exposed portion of the threaded rod. Given that it was sitting in a shop, it needs cleaning. I think that should take care of it.

I did use the Z axis, which was needed to make the thing fit on the trailer properly. The bed is wide enough that it had to get raised all the way up to clear the side rails. That worked just fine and smoothly.

Tools said:
A drop deck trailer? Cheating….
Click to expand...

Admittedly this wasn't my idea. I copied what they did in the Grassroots Motorsports article a couple months back. It was definitely worth doing it that way.

I do put my machines on 4x4 feet so I can pallet Jack around the shop until they get comfortable.

Then of course the plan is to remove, jack hammer out the floor, pour a proper pad and foundation, level, grout…. Which has never happened. I get used to the extra height!

Now congrats?!!
Click to expand...

Before unloading the mill I'd spent a good bit of time thinking about where it was likely going to go. The way the shop is set up, there are options but really only a few that were going to make logical sense. Once we started taking measurements of the mill itself and looking at those options, it was pretty clear that corner was going to be the best spot.

It'll get moved probably a foot or so from where it sits, but that's going to be pretty close to where it goes. I will check to see how level it is, but really it should be pretty close, certainly close enough for my work.

I'm really excited to learn more about the machine.
 
Oh… I misspoke… the Rockford is a planer, the shaper is a 16” Cincy heavy universal.

Very underutilized machines.

Lest anyone think I’m grand standing, EVERY ONE of my machines was intercepted on the way to the scrap yard.

Just seemed inhumane. Had to save them!
 
My voice: Bought a band saw and sander for the hangar this week!

POA voice: I got a rock.

Nice score, Ted.
 
One of my friends had suggested getting a machinist stone to clean and remove any imperfections from the table on the mill. Any suggestions for how I go about that? The table is fairly grimey and does need a good clean.
 
If you’re talking burrs and such, just lay a file flat on it make a pass or two.

Generally you’re not gonna want to abrade it any more than necessary. Scrub with a solvent.

I get all kinds of flak on machinist forums, but just wire wheel it.
 
Ted said:
One of my friends had suggested getting a machinist stone to clean and remove any imperfections from the table on the mill. Any suggestions for how I go about that? The table is fairly grimey and does need a good clean.
Click to expand...
First, degrease it the old fashioned way with elbow grease and solvent. Then lightly re-lubricate to prevent rust. Take the stone and rub it over the surface to knock off any burrs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ted
I think I’m going to need a bigger container of solvent…
 
Ted said:
I think I’m going to need a bigger container of solvent…
Click to expand...

Think a guy at the airport and I are going to go in on a 55 gallon drum of mineral spirits. Man, has that stuff gotten costly!

Congratulations, Ted, on yet again realizing another of my random dreams.
 
Ted said:
I think I’m going to need a bigger container of solvent…
Click to expand...
Siphon spray gun. Air compressor oil cooler started leaking. What a gooey mess when the oil and dust mix. Spray. Scrub. Spray and rinse away.
 
Could do a dry-ice blaster. They're not cheap, but they sure are effective and I bet you'd have a lot of uses for one.
 
One thing I will have to figure out is a Y-axis lever. That broke off somewhere before I bought it. What's there does turn, at least to the point of backlash, but I didn't get the Y-axis to move, I think due to lack of leverage.
 
Ok, and another question. I want to buy a DRO. I'm happy to see that this one includes multiple languages including Germany:

upload_2022-11-4_10-1-1.png

@vontresc would be especially happy at that.

But this one as a 4-axis seems like it would probably be a decent value perhaps:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/224533772677

It seems like if I'm going to bother with a DRO, having the 4th axis for a quill measurement would be good. Per the Googles, my travel are 33.5" for X, 15" for Y, 16" for Z, and then 5" for quill.

Doesn't have to be super precise for what I'm doing. But, thoughts and recommendations?
 
On the y axis, make sure it’s unlocked. There’s a handle somewhere that tightens the gibs.

You got a mill. Once you get a lathe, you have everything you need to fix it very properly!
 
I need to get one of these to put above the mill:

41hEY8mDO7L._AC_.jpg
 
Hey Ted… don’t you worry, we got this all figgered out for ya…

Why yes, yes it would!
 
It works! And as it turns out, that spot is pretty perfect for it. I’ll move it a bit, but not today.

50483A4A-65B4-4521-BCBB-C4957EC2CB01.jpeg
 
Today I ended up spending most of the day getting the mill cleaned up and hooked up. I'm happy to report that everything works, and I seem to have a pretty good handle on how all the functions on it work.

It took about 3-4 hours of good old elbow grease to get all the gunk cleaned off of it. It's obvious it hadn't received a good cleaning at its primary shop in some time, and then sitting in a cylinder head machine/repair shop I don't think helped either. There was a lot of gunk, but I only found rust in one area - and that was the flats for the fore-aft adjustment of the head. That was surface rust, cleaned right off, and everything is good now. The full motion in all axes are good, as are the head angle adjustments. Really this machine is in pretty good shape it seems. After cleaning up the table it seemed pretty flat on the whole. I need to do another good check over on it, but I may not need to do much with it.

The data tag on the motor showed how it should be wired for 220 vs. 460, and despite the label saying it was wired for 460, it was actually wired for 220. I wired up my VFD controller which works beautifully, and also does a soft start and stop which is a nice feature. This already had a variable speed head so this doesn't necessarily add functionality for me, but it's neat to have.

The auto feed on the X-axis doesn't work, or at least doesn't seem to. I'm not sure that necessarily matters for me since I'm figuring I'll do things manually anyway. For the Y-axis I'll need to put on a proper handle and not a pair of vice grips, but those worked for working the axis back and forth and confirming everything works.

I need to confirm which collets it will need (I think R8), get those and some end mills coming, figure out what other accessories I need, and go from there.
 
Cool on the progress! I'll say again I've never worked on mills, but I have worked on equipment with power feeds and limit switches. You've probably already checked them, but mechanical limit switches used to be a common fail item, as they get beat up a lot in repetitive use. But they are pretty cheap to replace, and usually easy to open/jumper to test, too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ted
Albany Tom said:
Cool on the progress! I'll say again I've never worked on mills, but I have worked on equipment with power feeds and limit switches. You've probably already checked them, but mechanical limit switches used to be a common fail item, as they get beat up a lot in repetitive use. But they are pretty cheap to replace, and usually easy to open/jumper to test, too.
Click to expand...

At some point I was going to check and play around with that to see. But I think getting a DRO bought and set up is of a higher priority along with getting the tooling I need to start using this machine.
 
JOhnH said:
I've learned a ton from this thread. But the main thing I learned is that I now know that I know even less than I used to think I knew.
Click to expand...

I've learned a lot quickly. We didn't get any formal machine tool training in college, which was a shame because we did have a full and good machine shop and staff who were good and knew how to use the things. We basically were just left to our own devices. But the more I think about what this can do and how that pertains to various projects I have, the more I want to learn about using it.
 
There is a series of six small books written by a retired high school teacher Dave Gingery.
They detail how to make a entire machine shop from scratch, using NOTHING but basic, I mean REALLY basic, tools. The most exotic being a 3/8 hand drill.
First he sets up a small foundry! Casts and machines parts to build a lathe. A lathe is unique in that it can make itself! Then a shaper, a horiz mill. Then the most complicated, drill press, then accessories.
I do NOT recommend doing this. But getting those six books, less than $75 I think, and just reading them is WILDLY valuable in how to machine. Far better than any tech school books I’ve read. Just super practical. You’ll understand work holding, measuring, order of operations, everything.
Written well enough to understand as a story. And pretty much gotta read in order even though you probably have no interest in a shaper. You’ll learn a lot more about machines and what they do. How metal cuts metal…
Next book to have as a GREAT reference is South Bend’s “Care and operation of the lathe” or something close to that. Lastly get yourself a copy the Machinist’s Handbook”. I prefer 1940s to 1960s vintage. Not expensive.
And you haven’t mentioned the most important thing you need yet… METAL!
 
Tools said:
There is a series of six small books written by a retired high school teacher Dave Gingery.
They detail how to make a entire machine shop from scratch, using NOTHING but basic, I mean REALLY basic, tools. The most exotic being a 3/8 hand drill.
First he sets up a small foundry! Casts and machines parts to build a lathe. A lathe is unique in that it can make itself! Then a shaper, a horiz mill. Then the most complicated, drill press, then accessories.
I do NOT recommend doing this. But getting those six books, less than $75 I think, and just reading them is WILDLY valuable in how to machine. Far better than any tech school books I’ve read. Just super practical. You’ll understand work holding, measuring, order of operations, everything.
Written well enough to understand as a story. And pretty much gotta read in order even though you probably have no interest in a shaper. You’ll learn a lot more about machines and what they do. How metal cuts metal…
Next book to have as a GREAT reference is South Bend’s “Care and operation of the lathe” or something close to that. Lastly get yourself a copy the Machinist’s Handbook”. I prefer 1940s to 1960s vintage. Not expensive.
And you haven’t mentioned the most important thing you need yet… METAL!
Click to expand...

Good advice in there, thanks. I'll look for the books. Any suggested references as far as feed rates/speeds/etc. for different operations?

I have a lot of scrap metal around - I pretty much never throw metal away, and so I'll be able to practice various operations before I do them on parts I actually care about. I plans for different projects I want to work on.

The oiler on the side of the mill has a broken tank, I need to look at it closer to see if I can just replace the tank itself or if I need to buy a full new one. And I need to buy the appropriate oil to put into the various oiling holes on the head. I've got some shopping planned for the day.
 
Probably a Bijur, easy company to work with.

So there I was… restoring a 1940s Fray mill with a built in Bijur. I call them up, what the hay…

A woman answers on the first ring. Cool! “Uh, probably a wild goose chase, but I got this old mill ya da, ya da… need to talk to a tech”.

“Like I said, how can I help ya?” She snarked… ever so gently

Ok fine, it’s a 1940 Fray, built in integral way oiler, the pump is bad…

“Does it say this on the side?”

WHOA?!!!! Ya! Right off the top of her head! Dayam!

“You need this, $25, you need that, $15… does it have RFD 1 nozzles? They are $5/ea… where ya want this shipped?”

Nibbled a little crow and started readin off my bank card info! VERY impressed.
 
The gingery books will give you a great idea on feed rates, from a practical viewpoint. The machinists handbook has charts! A few worth blowing up and framing…
 
Ted said:
Good advice in there, thanks. I'll look for the books. Any suggested references as far as feed rates/speeds/etc. for different operations?

I have a lot of scrap metal around - I pretty much never throw metal away, and so I'll be able to practice various operations before I do them on parts I actually care about. I plans for different projects I want to work on.

The oiler on the side of the mill has a broken tank, I need to look at it closer to see if I can just replace the tank itself or if I need to buy a full new one. And I need to buy the appropriate oil to put into the various oiling holes on the head. I've got some shopping planned for the day.
Click to expand...

Congrats on getting it up and running.
Go ahead and try and get the x axis feed up and running, while you can certainly do it manually, almost everything is easier with powerfeed and you'll get better results. Basically impossible to control feed speed accurately by hand.

Feeds and speeds:
https://www.cnccookbook.com/g-wizard-feeds-speeds-calculator-mill/
 
Ted said:
I've learned a lot quickly. We didn't get any formal machine tool training in college, which was a shame because we did have a full and good machine shop and staff who were good and knew how to use the things.
Click to expand...
I have fond memories of that shop! Never had an academic reason to use it, but the old guy who ran it (Clehouse, probably long gone by the time you were there) welcomed outside projects and would teach anyone who wanted to do them. First up was making weight belt weights since a couple of us had just gotten SCUBA certified. Made a wooden positive of the weight we wanted, then we sand cast an aluminum mold from that, then cast a ton of weights using lead retrieved from the school’s rifle range. I’m still diving with those weights.
We did some interesting gunsmithing projects after that.
 
GaryM said:
I have fond memories of that shop! Never had an academic reason to use it, but the old guy who ran it (Clehouse, probably long gone by the time you were there) welcomed outside projects and would teach anyone who wanted to do them. First up was making weight belt weights since a couple of us had just gotten SCUBA certified. Made a wooden positive of the weight we wanted, then we sand cast an aluminum mold from that, then cast a ton of weights using lead retrieved from the school’s rifle range. I’m still diving with those weights.
We did some interesting gunsmithing projects after that.
Click to expand...

Clehouse sounds familiar, but when I was there it was Mike Fulk. I think he would've taught anyone who wanted to learn, but I was also pretty bad in those days about asking for advice and help, instead I'd learn things the hard way. Oh, let me look at my left hand and see the scar from when I was using a drill press and got a piece of steel stuck and gone through my hand because I hadn't learned how to use a vice properly yet... :)

They were really good about letting us do any personal projects in there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top