Thinking about a Bus/RV

For those interested, the video on the sway bar upgrade:

 
What the heck is an “air tab”?
 
For RV work this evening I decided to add the driver's side seat heater. I don't enjoy disassembling seats, but it's done and working. I'll do the passenger side next.

I really like heated seats, and for how cheap the seat heater inserts are, it's something of a no brainer to add to something you're going to be sitting in any length of time. I even put them in the Cobra, and also put one on my Harley. I need to then go through and work on the heater hoses.
 
Ted said:
For RV work this evening I decided to add the driver's side seat heater. I don't enjoy disassembling seats, but it's done and working. I'll do the passenger side next.

I really like heated seats, and for how cheap the seat heater inserts are, it's something of a no brainer to add to something you're going to be sitting in any length of time. I even put them in the Cobra, and also put one on my Harley. I need to then go through and work on the heater hoses.
Click to expand...

I like the ones with the option to only heat the back and not the bottom. Makes it nice to get some warmth on a stiff back on long drives (or after a kid's basketball/baseball practice) without getting fully heated up.
 
CJones said:
I like the ones with the option to only heat the back and not the bottom. Makes it nice to get some warmth on a stiff back on long drives (or after a kid's basketball/baseball practice) without getting fully heated up.
Click to expand...

I agree, and if I was smart I would've rewired it to do that. These just have a low and high heat setting, and turn on both the butt and back the same. Really, it does well enough for the purposes of what I'm doing here. More than anything, it's nice to have a little extra heat.
 
Ted said:
I agree, and if I was smart I would've rewired it to do that. These just have a low and high heat setting, and turn on both the butt and back the same. Really, it does well enough for the purposes of what I'm doing here. More than anything, it's nice to have a little extra heat.
Click to expand...

Don't forget about those ventilated seats. Man, that's some nice stuff when you get into a car on a 100-degree day! Although if I had to pick only one, the heated seats would be it. Far more use out of those in winter months.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Don't forget about those ventilated seats. Man, that's some nice stuff when you get into a car on a 100-degree day! Although if I had to pick only one, the heated seats would be it. Far more use out of those in winter months.
Click to expand...

No argument from me. My Ram has ventilated seats and I love them. But it's a lot harder to retrofit those, whereas retrofitting the heated seats is much better.

Also, the RV really doesn't have that same issue of baking in the sun on a 100 degree day like the car. When we're out in it, it's got the AC running all the time. What it needs more than anything is a bit more AC capacity, which is another project.
 
Ted said:
No argument from me. My Ram has ventilated seats and I love them. But it's a lot harder to retrofit those, whereas retrofitting the heated seats is much better.

Also, the RV really doesn't have that same issue of baking in the sun on a 100 degree day like the car. When we're out in it, it's got the AC running all the time. What it needs more than anything is a bit more AC capacity, which is another project.
Click to expand...

Hope you don't mind me posting a couple pictures of our FL 112 toterhome. This was 2 weeks ago.
IMG_0876.JPG

IMG_0872.JPG



It was built to haul a 51' gooseneck race car trailer which we did for 6 years. Then in the last 12 years we have used it on vacations, sometimes pulling a open car trailer. Cat C12 505 HP turbo diesel heavy duty everything. Had it since 2002.
Sturgis%20Badlands%20and%20Yellowstone%202014%201250.jpg

Sturgis%20Badlands%20and%20Yellowstone%202014%20537.jpg

I have been a RVer from early on when I was able to borrow my Dads 73 360 dodge motorhome in the 1980s.
We love to "boon dock"(after I got my wife used to it, lol) since it is self contained just any RV. Amish built oak inside. It carry's 200 gals of fuel for the engine and genset.
We have been in many many camp grounds and we are always the only red RV in the place. lol We have a lot of fun in it.
Dream to drive on the open highway with it's long wheel base. The chassis was built by Freightliner for a RV.
 
Last edited:
Gary Ward said:
We love to "boon dock"(after I got my wife used to it, lol) since it is self contained just any RV. Amish built oak inside. It carry's 200 gals of fuel for the engine and genset.
Click to expand...

That sounds a lot like us and what we're thinking for the next one. Like you, we really like boondocking now that my wife has gotten used to it, and we want the next one to be something that can hold more fuel and go further remote. Very cool! :)
 
Ted said:
That sounds a lot like us and what we're thinking for the next one. Like you, we really like boondocking now that my wife has gotten used to it, and we want the next one to be something that can hold more fuel and go further remote. Very cool! :)
Click to expand...
Thanks,

I am second owner, original owner who ordered it and a 51' mini semi at the same time and had both painted red. Then traded it back in to the dealer after seeing and wanting a diesel pusher and stacker trailer.

I had previously bought a race trailer from this dealer.

The dealer offered it to me 6 months old with 4400 miles on it. It was so unique with big power I decided to keep it after getting out of racing.
It can pull anything.
Garys%20I%20phone%207-2015%20487.jpg
 
Last edited:
@Gary Ward , that is a unique and interesting rig, and I bet that 505hp Cat makes it fun to drive, lots of power!
 
Aside from finishing up the heated seat for the passenger seat in the RV, I also addressed another issue that’s been long standing. The RV bedroom had some smaller, brass, very builder basic 90s sconces on either side of the bed in the bedroom. The bigger problem with them than style was the fact that we both would constantly hit our heads on them. When redoing the bedroom we took them down and left them out, but bedside light is nice. So I added these puck lights from Amazon - $30 for the 4 of them, and I direct wired to the electrical system. Much improved.

FCAFAF59-9DDD-43CA-B7DE-E110E31AAF0E.jpeg
 
Tom-D said:
Our neighbor has a 37' coach with a C7 cat, he gets 6-7 miles per gallon. no matter what he's doing.
Click to expand...

I have a 2002 Cat C-12 with a auto trans with the top 2 gears are overdrive. No emissions on it. On level highways pulling a open car trailer I get double digit fuel mileage with 505 hp under my foot. It had 10K worth of optional engine accessories when ordered. I am second owner. It get's way better mileage than my pickup truck pulling the same trailer and car.
 
Last edited:
Ted said:
Aside from finishing up the heated seat for the passenger seat in the RV, I also addressed another issue that’s been long standing. The RV bedroom had some smaller, brass, very builder basic 90s sconces on either side of the bed in the bedroom. The bigger problem with them than style was the fact that we both would constantly hit our heads on them. When redoing the bedroom we took them down and left them out, but bedside light is nice. So I added these puck lights from Amazon - $30 for the 4 of them, and I direct wired to the electrical system. Much improved.

View attachment 100668
Click to expand...

Not a lot of garages have Ferrari and Caterpillar banners hanging side-by-side, I'll bet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ted
Gary Ward said:
I have a 2002 Cat C-12 with a auto trans with the top 2 gears are overdrive. No emissions on it. On level highways pulling a open car trailer I get double digit fuel mileage with 505 hp under my foot. It had 10K worth of optional engine accessories when ordered. I am second owner. It get way better mileage than my pickup truck pulling the same trailer and car.
Click to expand...

The C7 doesn't seem to get the best fuel economy in RVs. I think there's a couple reasons. First is that they're typically mated to mechanical fans with no clutch, so they're just spinning the big giant fan all the time. In diesel pusher RVs the theory is that you do always need that because you don't have the ram air that a rig like your Freightliner has, but I personally think it's a more complicated equation and will test that when I swap to electric fans.

The other thing is that when you look at RVs, those C7s have the 300-350 HP variants that are at the top end of what that engine can make, but they end up needing a lot of that power to keep the bus going down the road. So they're running at a high percent power, and a high RPM, which isn't very efficient (and turns the fan faster, which makes efficiency worse). Also, the Allison transmissions seem to really eat a lot of power once you get to higher RPM.

After going through the engine and making some improvements, something in that 7-8 MPG range is still what we get. We also are normally going 70+ and so that's part of it. We did get >10 MPG without the Land Rover attached on the 55 MPH roads in Michigan driving up to 6Y9. I think I calculated it at 11 at the pump, which was surprising. At that the engine is doing around 1500-1600 RPM at 55-60, as opposed to the normal 2000ish that we're doing at our 72-75 typical speed. Of course we weren't towing the Land Rover, although the Land Rover seems to mostly impact acceleration rather than fuel economy.

Personally, I think the C7 is best suited to 37' and smaller RVs. By the time you get to 40', a C9 or bigger is the right size. But, RV manufacturers are building to a cost, so pinching pennies matters. I've looked at a C9 swap just out of curiosity and I think it would be feasible. But, that's not high on the priority list, and I think by the time I convert to electric cooling fans that'll get me most of what I want performance wise. Or at least enough of it to not mess with it further.
 
Ted said:
The C7 doesn't seem to get the best fuel economy in RVs. I think there's a couple reasons. First is that they're typically mated to mechanical fans with no clutch, so they're just spinning the big giant fan all the time. In diesel pusher RVs the theory is that you do always need that because you don't have the ram air that a rig like your Freightliner has, but I personally think it's a more complicated equation and will test that when I swap to electric fans.

The other thing is that when you look at RVs, those C7s have the 300-350 HP variants that are at the top end of what that engine can make, but they end up needing a lot of that power to keep the bus going down the road. So they're running at a high percent power, and a high RPM, which isn't very efficient (and turns the fan faster, which makes efficiency worse). Also, the Allison transmissions seem to really eat a lot of power once you get to higher RPM.

After going through the engine and making some improvements, something in that 7-8 MPG range is still what we get. We also are normally going 70+ and so that's part of it. We did get >10 MPG without the Land Rover attached on the 55 MPH roads in Michigan driving up to 6Y9. I think I calculated it at 11 at the pump, which was surprising. At that the engine is doing around 1500-1600 RPM at 55-60, as opposed to the normal 2000ish that we're doing at our 72-75 typical speed. Of course we weren't towing the Land Rover, although the Land Rover seems to mostly impact acceleration rather than fuel economy.

Personally, I think the C7 is best suited to 37' and smaller RVs. By the time you get to 40', a C9 or bigger is the right size. But, RV manufacturers are building to a cost, so pinching pennies matters. I've looked at a C9 swap just out of curiosity and I think it would be feasible. But, that's not high on the priority list, and I think by the time I convert to electric cooling fans that'll get me most of what I want performance wise. Or at least enough of it to not mess with it further.
Click to expand...

Ted you are obviously a very wise RVer and more I am sure. You make some very good points about a pusher that I have never thought about since I have never owned one.
My rig tachs around 1200rpms at most legal highway speeds which I am sure helps fuel mileage. It will not go into top gear until I get to 72mph and then it just lunges forward wanting to go.
My gps has recorded 110 mph once out west somewhere and is the only time I had it going that fast. I am not a speeder(lol), speed limit was 85 this day.
MVC-826S.jpg

My old car at the top of Pikes Peak on July 30 and there was snow on the ground.
MVC-116S.jpg

Big red(RV) was at the bottom of the hill.
I keep the altimeter in the RV just for fun. I took it with me in the car this day.
MVC-117S.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ted
Gary Ward said:
Ted you are obviously a very wise RVer and more I am sure. You make some very good points about a pusher that I have never thought about since I have never owned one.
Click to expand...

Thanks. :)

It's been a learning curve. There are good reasons for the pusher layout, but it has a lot of compromises.

My rig tachs around 1200rpms at most legal highway speeds which I am sure helps fuel mileage. It will not go into top gear until I get to 72mph and then it just lunges forward wanting to go.
My gps has recorded 110 mph once out west somewhere and is the only time I had it going that fast. I am not a speeder, speed limit was 85 this day.
Click to expand...

That's a very nice setup, and clearly one that was more intelligently designed all around. At 1200 RPM the C7 is more or less worthless, and in fact Cat says not to run it at that low of an RPM under any significant load. If it was in a pickup truck it would be one thing to rev that low going down the highway (and probably could) but not in the 40' bus.

I'd also bet your rig has a clutch fan of some sort, and that the clutch rarely turns on, which helps further. That's a dream setup, no doubt.
 
Sometimes my wife shares driving duty.
MVC-084S-1.jpg

This was this past weekend 2021, antique hunting in small town America.
IMG_0978.JPG

Silver Beach St Joseph Mi this past weekend.
IMG_0973.JPG
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ted
On this evening’s drive in the RV doing about 70 and 1900 RPM, with a lot of foot-to-the-floor sections, I was strongly wishing for a bigger Cat engine. :)

Edit: specified engine brand
 
Ted said:
On this evening’s drive in the RV doing about 70 and 1900 RPM, with a lot of foot-to-the-floor sections, I was strongly wishing for a bigger Cat engine. :)

Edit: specified engine brand
Click to expand...
Isn't the solution always an LS-swap? Lol.
 
Ted said:
I'd also bet your rig has a clutch fan of some sort, and that the clutch rarely turns on, which helps further. That's a dream setup, no doubt.
Click to expand...

I hear the fan every time the jake brake comes on, stage2 jake really makes the fan howl. Other wise mostly during mountain driving do I hear the fan kick in on long climbs.

The original owner lived in the mountains and specked the RV for the mountains. BTW
The first 40K miles I pulled a 49' enclosed race trailer across the flat lands mostly and not many mountains. Then then last 55K miles were mostly towing that small open car trailer across the mountains. So the rig has had a easy life.

Also pulling a open car trailer with a classic car on it is way more fun than pulling a huge enclosed fancy race trailer.
The thumbs up we get with a open trailer and what's on it makes it fun.
 
Last edited:
SoonerAviator said:
Isn't the solution always an LS-swap? Lol.
Click to expand...

I think I’d need twin LS engines, and then my fuel economy would go to about 1.

Gary Ward said:
I hear the fan every time the jake brake comes on, stage2 jake really makes the fan howl. Other wise mostly during mountain driving do I hear the fan kick in on long climbs.
Click to expand...

I’m guessing yours has an electrically activated fan clutch, and it turns on the fan with the stage 2 jakes to provide more horsepower absorption. On RVs with electric fan clutches they do that. That’s also one thing I wonder about with the electric fan conversion since that’ll hurt my engine braking. I’ve also considered adding an electric fan clutch, which some people do.

Real jakes, something else I wish I had - another thing the 3126/C7 lacks. The exhaust brake works ok
 
I had enough trouble with c9's in cat tractors to leave a bad taste in my mouth. Also had a problem child c13 in a combine that probably took a couple years off my life. C15 in the big tractor was pretty good though.

Also had a turd of dt466e in a truck. The elevator had a couple of those dumpster fire maxxforce engines.....Just say "no" to heui engines.

In tractor applications, the deere 8.9 has been my favorite followed by the iveco 8.7l with the c9 being a distant third. Its lugging ability leaves a LOT to be desired compared to the other two. All three running around 320hp. Of course this has nothing to do with motorhomes.
 
Last edited:
SoonerAviator said:
That's it! New thread: Thinking about Skymaster conversion on the RV . . .
Click to expand...

It would be doable. The generator area up front could fit an LS. Replace the front axle with one from a 6x6 military truck or wrecker, and end up with a 4x4, twin engine RV.

It really makes no sense, and I like diesels over gassers for this application. Nope.

iamtheari said:
There's someone I'd like you to meet. I'm pretty sure you've never been introduced. I'm pleased to introduce you to my friend @Ted.
Click to expand...

:rofl: touché

Really what I more mean is that if I get to that point, we’d more likely get another bus. We’re always admiring the Prevosts going down the highway.
 
Jim K said:
I had enough trouble with c9's in cat tractors to leave a bad taste in my mouth. Also had a problem child c13 in a combine that probably took a couple years of my life. C15 in the big tractor was pretty good though.

Also had a turd of dt466e in a truck. The elevator had a couple of those dumpster fire maxxforce engines.....Just say "no" to heui engines.

In tractor applications, the deere 8.9 has been my favorite followed by the iveco 8.7l with the c9 being a distant third. Its lugging ability leaves a LOT to be desired compared to the other two. All three running around 320hp. Of course this has nothing to do with motorhomes.
Click to expand...

The HEUI is not a favorite system of anyone and does have its issues without a doubt. So far (knock on wood) this one has been working fine. The big thing with it is changing the oil at or before its change interval and clean fuel.

A C9 would be the natural upgrade to my 3126B if I did one, and it would fit. But I don’t think I’ll go that far.
 
Jim K said:
I had enough trouble with c9's in cat tractors to leave a bad taste in my mouth. Also had a problem child c13 in a combine that probably took a couple years of my life. C15 in the big tractor was pretty good though
Click to expand...

I dunno. I've seen how you treat your tractors. I'm not convinced this is on us. ;)
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I dunno. I've seen how you treat your tractors. I'm not convinced this is on us. ;)
Click to expand...
:rofl:

The wheels actually fell off the yellow tractors too. I blame Agco for that though. I think they cheapened up the design after Cat exited the ag business. The Cat 45 we had, actually built by Cat, was pretty reliable. The Challengers not so much.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I dunno. I've seen how you treat your tractors. I'm not convinced this is on us. ;)
Click to expand...

Was going to say, tractors aren’t exactly known for having on time (or any) maintenance performed. ;)
 
Ted said:
Was going to say, tractors aren’t exactly known for having on time (or any) maintenance performed. ;)
Click to expand...
I'm pretty fastidious about maintenance, especially on the big expensive stuff, but tractor engines definitely have a hard life, no denying that.

That said, I was just having a discussion with a school bus mechanic yesterday about how maintenance hungry trucks are. Seems like there's always something broken on them, and I spend way more time working on trucks than tractors.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ted
Jim K said:
I'm pretty fastidious about maintenance, especially on the big expensive stuff, but tractor engines definitely have a hard life, no denying that.

That said, I was just having a discussion with a school bus mechanic yesterday about how maintenance hungry trucks are. Seems like there's always something broken on them, and I spend way more time working on trucks than tractors.
Click to expand...

Oh I’m sure you maintain them w ll; I was jus giving you a hard time. :)

I think any of these heavy duty engines and applications have hard lives. School busses I think are some of the hardest (along with transit). My RV is running this engine at a high percent power all the time, but at least it generally has decent airflow. Tractors are running at a high percent power all the time with essentially no natural airflow, and what air there is is often dirty.

Speaking of dirty air, I need a mew air filter on my bus.
 
Ted said:
Tractors are running at a high percent power all the time with essentially no natural airflow, and what air there is is often dirty.
Click to expand...
They also never get to run at a constant load, they are constantly being lugged down and sometimes even killed. Especially those gutless c9's:p

Cars are really the only thing I can think of with understressed engines, which is probably why they last so long with minimal mx. That's changing though with hybrids and tiny turbo engines in everything these days.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ted
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top