No, the lack of ventilation in the engine compartment boils out the fuel if you're not moving. Rarely does a small boat have the blower capacity to deal with engine compartment heat after a hard run/shutdown cycle.
Thinking About a Boat
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No, the lack of ventilation in the engine compartment boils out the fuel if you're not moving. Rarely does a small boat have the blower capacity to deal with engine compartment heat after a hard run/shutdown cycle.
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Paying marina/fuel dock prices will get you alcohol free. Alcohol free is also available at your local rack, because that is where the alcohol is added. Your local fuel and oil company has access to it if you can't get it directly. If you have a tank that can accept their fill there is a good chance to buy direct, especially for cash. If not the same company that fills the service station will have a truck with a 1" or 2" nozzle to fill a tank. Just like with an airplane, you have to calculate usage against investment and the price differential between marina fuel and fuel truck fuel. The other advantage to fuel truck fuel over gas station fuel (if you can find alcohol free) is he can eliminate the road tax at purchase rather than having to file a rebate.
Come to think of it, a lot of gas station premium is alcohol free as that uses a different oxidizer. If that holds for your area that would work because you want the 92 octane for the loads you operate under.
docmirror
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I should add a note about trailered vs bottom painted.
That Sea Rey is in a slip, which means it's been bottom painted. Now, I may get some flak but for me, there is no way I want a trailer boat that's been bottom painted. Which is kind of funny cuz my current boat has bottom paint.
Trailer boats are supposed to stay on trailers, not in a slip with bottom paint. It's just another expense every 3-5 years that is pretty expensive. Anti-fouling paint is a good thing for boats which are slipped, and there is a thinking that boats in a slip are used more often. It might be true, but it's a pretty costly addition.
I looked at that Sea Rey, and it's kinda old, besides having bottom paint. Take a look at this if you are looking at 23' boats.
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/boa/4601742158.html
Maxum makes a decent hull and this one offers a lot of value for the money. The downside is that the 4.3L V6 is not going to make it fast, but it will pull a single skier with a stainless steel prop on it. As you can see, the engine bay will take the 5.7L Merc V8 but that's quite a bit of work for a boat that's currently running fine.
Here's something that will move some fiberglass down the lake.
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/boa/4623653826.html
That Sea Rey is in a slip, which means it's been bottom painted. Now, I may get some flak but for me, there is no way I want a trailer boat that's been bottom painted. Which is kind of funny cuz my current boat has bottom paint.
Trailer boats are supposed to stay on trailers, not in a slip with bottom paint. It's just another expense every 3-5 years that is pretty expensive. Anti-fouling paint is a good thing for boats which are slipped, and there is a thinking that boats in a slip are used more often. It might be true, but it's a pretty costly addition.
I looked at that Sea Rey, and it's kinda old, besides having bottom paint. Take a look at this if you are looking at 23' boats.
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/boa/4601742158.html
Maxum makes a decent hull and this one offers a lot of value for the money. The downside is that the 4.3L V6 is not going to make it fast, but it will pull a single skier with a stainless steel prop on it. As you can see, the engine bay will take the 5.7L Merc V8 but that's quite a bit of work for a boat that's currently running fine.
Here's something that will move some fiberglass down the lake.
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/boa/4623653826.html
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docmirror;1533149[URL said:
You do seem to place an emphasis on speed!
I enjoy a reasonable cruise, I can set my 4.3 at 3000rpm, and plane out at 28-30mph depending on conditions. At this setting, it is really easy on gas yet I'm still getting places and the engine is quiet.
Once in a while I am in a hurry and 4000 gets me 40mph but with substantially increased noise and fuel flow. I top out at about 49mph. Not super fast, but not slow either.
Ted
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So talked to the seller of this one:
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/boa/4597193410.html
Painted bottom, but that was done supposedly for a few year period when it was docked during summers. Hasn't been on the water this year, always kept indoors during winters. Yeah, some of the more expensive ones look cooler and have some nifty features, but we thing it looks decent for a starter and fits the criteria well for something to own a couple of years. Aluminum tank, which sounds like a negative.
Will ask about the fiberglass or wood molding and rot issues. What other boat questions I should ask?
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/boa/4597193410.html
Painted bottom, but that was done supposedly for a few year period when it was docked during summers. Hasn't been on the water this year, always kept indoors during winters. Yeah, some of the more expensive ones look cooler and have some nifty features, but we thing it looks decent for a starter and fits the criteria well for something to own a couple of years. Aluminum tank, which sounds like a negative.
Will ask about the fiberglass or wood molding and rot issues. What other boat questions I should ask?
There is nothing wrong with trail erring a boat with bottom paint. Some paints are poorly affected by air, some are not affected at all, get the correct kind. The thing to watch for with water stored fiberglass boats is blisters. Only Polyester boats will get blisters, Vinylester will not, nor will epoxy. You do NOT need to concern yourself with a blister smaller than your hand. Just grind the biggies out, dry, fill, and fair them. Do not do a whole bottom treatment on a bottom coved with a bunch of small blisters. There is only one way to cure a blistering problem nobody does it, so anything being sold as a cure is snake oil. You'll have a new batch shortly and be out thousands of dollars. The problem is that in the post 1972 formulation of Polyester curing at room temp with MEKP does not fully cure the styrenes and these pockets of uncured styrene is where blisters form. The only way to "fix" this issue is to post cure the hull to 90°C for about 15 minutes.
Higher quality boats will use Vinylester which costs twice as much as Polyester but doesn't have this problem. Epoxy is about twice as much as Vinylester and is use mostly with advanced carbon and aramid reinforced high performance hulls that need to be able to vacuum out the plastic to reduce weight and not have get too brittle.
Higher quality boats will use Vinylester which costs twice as much as Polyester but doesn't have this problem. Epoxy is about twice as much as Vinylester and is use mostly with advanced carbon and aramid reinforced high performance hulls that need to be able to vacuum out the plastic to reduce weight and not have get too brittle.
docmirror
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Better without the bottom paint entirely. Alum tank is a plus, but the teak accents are a minus. Teak went out of favor in the mid 80s for all builders except Sea Ray. You need to scuff it and use teak oil twice a year, or it's gonna look crappy.
I tell you what, take your wife to see the Sea Ray, and then the Maxum. She will be happy to pay the difference.
I tell you what, take your wife to see the Sea Ray, and then the Maxum. She will be happy to pay the difference.
sferguson524
Pattern Altitude
My catalina 30 had a TON of little blisters. dime size or smaller.. my diver told me not to even worry about them.
I'll let all the yacht and high end tender manufacturers know that teak went out of favor in the 80s.
docmirror
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I'll let all the yacht and high end tender manufacturers know that teak went out of favor in the 80s.
In case you hadn't noticed, we're in the ~20' trailer boat market. Find one except Sea Ray from the 90s that has Teak. Every time you post, you show your lack of experience with these boats. Go ahead, find one for me. While you're at it, leave your bottom paint blistered, and oh yeah - lets hear more about V drives in trailer boats, and jets that only use 10% more gas. I'm waiting with baited breath. Maybe stick to big iron...
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I'll let all the yacht and high end tender manufacturers know that teak went out of favor in the 80s.
Yeah, guys who own boats like this hire guys like you to ensure everything is Bristol.
docmirror
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Built-in car phones went out of style by 2000, but my 97 BMW still has one.
But I do understand the cosmetic MX aspect of teak.
I'm no great shakes at dates but; 97 - 98 - 99 - 2000? So, wouldn't the 97 car phone be in style then since it's before 2000?
Teak is easy to maintain, raw you just give it a light buff with a green or white Scotchbrite pad when washing and it stays nice and tan, ammonia takes out stains and oxalic acid crystals bring up color again. I can also provide it a coating that will give it a beautiful high gloss finish that lasts for many years with little more than wax. Teak was given up by cheaper lines because it added cost. Yes, there is a bit of maintenance to teak, but just a bit, and most owners take pride in it and enjoy the process. Even with a standard varnishing process, a scuff and a coat a year with a couple of coats of wax between will keep everything looking excellent for many years.
Ted
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I suppose my point was it's out of style today (not to mention useless), but I don't mind.
docmirror
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I have a 92 Porsche with a built in phone. The little square mic in the A pillar, and the clasp in the pax footwell wall.
Anyway, boats with a lot of Teak like the Sea Ray just take up time that is better spent elsewhere. Show your wife that Maxum, I'll be curious to know what she says.
All of the current small Chris Crafts are loaded with teak.
FormerHangie
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I'm looking at BoatTest.com, and I compared the fuel consumption of the Yamaha AR210 to a Sea Ray210 SLX, and once you're up on plane, the fuel consumption is very similar. The Yamaha uses more fuel at subplaning speeds, but I suspect much of that has to do with it being a twin.
docmirror
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Oh, I didn't know the AR210 had a big block Chevy pushing a Berkeley jet drive. My mistake.
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Quit with the negative waves, man.
Built-in car phones went out of style by 2000, but my 97 BMW still has one.
But I do understand the cosmetic MX aspect of teak.
It's also safer to tread on than gelcoat when boarding across the gunwale. And prettier than black non-skid, even raw.
Sigh, a 460 is a Ford, not a Chevy, and being a big block has nothing to do with with extra fuel consumption than a small block outside there is more horsepower available which requires more fuel if you elect to use that power. Naturally a small block will use less fuel producing 190-230 HP than a big block producing 270-330hp. The Berkeley drive is not substantially different than the one Yamaha uses in efficiency. The efficiency cost on the same hull switching between an Outdrive and a Jet Drive is 15%. Ted is knowledgeable about engines, he knows how to make them work efficiently. The Yamaha would be preferable, can you touch one for under $15k? $10k buys a lot of fuel in a starter boat.
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Ted
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If it weren't a 100 mile drive away, I would. Other aspect of having a 2 year old and pregnant with twins is that shopping must be kept semi-local. Otherwise, I absolutely would look at it, as I do think it's nice and like the features.
docmirror
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Yup, a Ford 460 is not a Chevy 454, that's true.
Sadly, the BSFC on the marine Ford is actually worse than the marine Chevy. Which means the Ford will use even more gas.
Oops.
Again.
Schools out. Have fun y'all!
Sadly, the BSFC on the marine Ford is actually worse than the marine Chevy. Which means the Ford will use even more gas.
Oops.
Again.
Schools out. Have fun y'all!
Ted
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Well, big block fuel consumption in my case is irrelevant since I'm not really interested in one right now. Maybe one day, but for now a small block is the way to go I think. I know how to make power and efficiency. I could always run LOP.
MyassisDragon
Line Up and Wait
Make sure to look at the stringers and bulk heads down in the bilge and engine mounting and transom for rot. Also look for foolish things like screws and mounts that have been screwed into stringers and not bedded that could let water in (causing rot under the fiberglass wrap). I had to completely tear out the engines and interior of my Trojan F32 to cut out and replace the stringers bow to stern cause the surveyor missed this little item on pre buy, and I didnt know any better.
I also would closely inspect the aluminum tank for repairs at the low corners, these are desirable yes, but I was surprised how fast my aux tanks corroded after my marine service switched to ethanol fuel and they started leaking on one of the corners at a low side where water settled, after about 3 years.
Regarding the teak...Some wives love teak (bad joke in there somewhere), but seriously, my wife took on the task of stripping all the caulk from the joints, sanding smooth, re caulking, and finishing the deck, cause the numb nuts before us decided to Varnish the whole thing. After that she called it "Her Deck" and had me ask permission before sitting down with my beer in hand on it.
See the attached pictures. By the way this boat was the worst investment I ever made, owned it for 10 years, put 1/2 the purchase price back into it and sold it for less than 1/4 what I had into it. But don't regret a thing. :wink2:
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FormerHangie
En-Route
Here's one for $11,900, but it's in Florida, I didn't look in Ohio:
http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2003-Yamaha-LX-210-Jet-Boat-102272695
Alexb2000
En-Route
Well, big block fuel consumption in my case is irrelevant since I'm not really interested in one right now. Maybe one day, but for now a small block is the way to go I think. I know how to make power and efficiency. I could always run LOP.
I would check that Searay transom and stringers for rot. The boat sat in the water for some of its life, is one reason. The other is it hasn't been in the water in at least a year, that would be a question in my mind. Might be nothing, or sometimes an owner with a wet boat will let it sit for a year or two to dry and then sell it.
Just remember, exhaust manifolds and risers are 5 year items. When they rust through internally, you typically lunch a long block assembly.
Ted
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Great points, thanks, Alex.
Good to know. So they won't have outwardly visible signs of wear? Why do they end up taking out the long block?
docmirror
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On a fresh water only boat, the manifold and riser will last 5-10 years or longer depending on use. They don't do any damage to the head or block when they go, because they are externally cooled by the incoming water, and the riser has the exhaust ported through it.
they just slowly rot in the water jacket. If you do your winterizing right, you drain them from the low point of the manifold, and it's never a problem.
Jim_CAK
Line Up and Wait
Ted -
Are you planning to use the boat on the Ohio river?
My brother lives in Cincinnati and used to boat on the river. He had some bad experiences, submerged logs, wing dams not on the charts, and eventually got discouraged and sold. You might try Brookville Lake in Indiana. It is a nice lake and close to your area. And you are not that far from Cumberland for extended trips.
I live in north east Ohio. I have had a 19' Searay for 27 years. It is a bow rider with a 140 hp. Merc I/O. I trailered for the first 7 years, then bought a house on a lake. It is great to have it docked a few feet from the house.
I used to ski behind the 140 hp (I am too old now!). It is "ok" for a full size adult but not ideal. Kids now are into tubing. It does fine pulling a bunch of college age kids on a tube. What is great is the low fuel consumption from the 140. It is about as economical as it can get with a power boat. It has the Chevy Iron Duke in it and has been very reliable. The boat is actually a 1984. It was three years old when I got it. It is dirt simple to work on. I don't work on my cars anymore but the boat is a dream to work on. I sit in the back jump seat and can change plugs and do tune ups without crawling into the bilge.
Someone can give you more history on Searay but I think they went through a lot of changes in the late 80's / early 90's. Brunswick bought them at some point and I got the sense the quality slipped. They also owned Bayliner - more of an entry level boat. At the time I bought, Searay still had a good reputation.
My brother had a Chaparral. It was a great boat - very well built.
Just an FYI - if you stay with something mainstream (Mercruiser) it easy easy to find parts / service at a small marina away from home. We don't quite have the number of marinas that Henning had near him in Florida!
Good luck with your search.
Are you planning to use the boat on the Ohio river?
My brother lives in Cincinnati and used to boat on the river. He had some bad experiences, submerged logs, wing dams not on the charts, and eventually got discouraged and sold. You might try Brookville Lake in Indiana. It is a nice lake and close to your area. And you are not that far from Cumberland for extended trips.
I live in north east Ohio. I have had a 19' Searay for 27 years. It is a bow rider with a 140 hp. Merc I/O. I trailered for the first 7 years, then bought a house on a lake. It is great to have it docked a few feet from the house.
I used to ski behind the 140 hp (I am too old now!). It is "ok" for a full size adult but not ideal. Kids now are into tubing. It does fine pulling a bunch of college age kids on a tube. What is great is the low fuel consumption from the 140. It is about as economical as it can get with a power boat. It has the Chevy Iron Duke in it and has been very reliable. The boat is actually a 1984. It was three years old when I got it. It is dirt simple to work on. I don't work on my cars anymore but the boat is a dream to work on. I sit in the back jump seat and can change plugs and do tune ups without crawling into the bilge.
Someone can give you more history on Searay but I think they went through a lot of changes in the late 80's / early 90's. Brunswick bought them at some point and I got the sense the quality slipped. They also owned Bayliner - more of an entry level boat. At the time I bought, Searay still had a good reputation.
My brother had a Chaparral. It was a great boat - very well built.
Just an FYI - if you stay with something mainstream (Mercruiser) it easy easy to find parts / service at a small marina away from home. We don't quite have the number of marinas that Henning had near him in Florida!
Good luck with your search.
Nope, they can look fine on the outside. They are water jacketed manifolds and risers and corrode between the exhaust and water jacket and fill the engine with water through the exhaust ports.
They're cheap, now the other consideration is a tuned exhaust... With turbos...
Seriously, that's a heavy boat for a standard 350. The other thing with that vintage is get a moisture meter on it. That was early in the foam core days for them and they had some teething issues for a few years. Really with that vintage if there is you'll know it on the tap test, but if it's been out of the water a year you might not and still see evidence of moisture problems with a meter.
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docmirror
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Manifold leakthrough in fresh water hasn't been a problem since 1986 when OMC and Merc both redesigned the manifolds:
Mercruiser 260 MIE GM 350 V-8 1987
Ref Part Num Description****************** Superceded 04/86
1 860246A15 MANIFOLD ASSEMBLY, Exhaust 87114A8
Ask around the marina, see if you can find anyone, in the past 25 years who has suffered a leakthrough to the engine. Sigh,,,,,,
Mercruiser 260 MIE GM 350 V-8 1987
Ref Part Num Description****************** Superceded 04/86
1 860246A15 MANIFOLD ASSEMBLY, Exhaust 87114A8
Ask around the marina, see if you can find anyone, in the past 25 years who has suffered a leakthrough to the engine. Sigh,,,,,,
Look at the vintage of the boat again why don't you. Most replacements were and still are cheap Chinese crap.