Thinking About a Boat

docmirror said:
Volvo DP is one of the best drives ever built. It'll take 300HP all day long. Double seals on the lower shaft, better turn radius than the Merc, and it's lighter. Check the shift selector cable latch, and the bellows. If they are ok, change the fluid and run it.



Start here. Do the raw water pump first.



http://www.jabscoshop.com/advice-and-support/jabscoshop-about-bronze-engine-cooling-pumps.htm
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I'm a fan of the 290DP. I bought the boat for about the value of a good used DP drive. I will put new zincs on it but never plan to leave the boat in the water for more than 2-3 days at a time. If I was leaving a boat in the water I would get straight inboards, or an outboard. Never an I/O

RWP is new, but they didn't bother to replace the horribly corroded pulley at the crank when they did the pump.




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I have a fairly long list of stuff including new fuel pump and lines, bilge pump, blower, thermostat and housing. Install thru hull water pickup for raw water cooling.

And rebuild the trim cylinders on the Volvo drive.

After that stuff is done I'm going to glass the deck flush and probably put down tuff coat. Then replace all lights with LED and put in some spreader flood and underwater lights.

Probably redo the 'panel' at some point too. Add radar.

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dell30rb said:
RWP is new, but they didn't bother to replace the horribly corroded pulley at the crank when they did the pump.
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Yeah, that pulley has to go. it's beyond help. I guess you know the manifolds will likely be junk too.
 
docmirror said:
Yeah, that pulley has to go. it's beyond help. I guess you know the manifolds will likely be junk too.
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Yeah I am figuring them for junk. They only have 80 hours on them, look good externally. I am figuring to replace anyway, as they are 8 yrs old.

Motor only has 80hours on it actually and it runs great. Still have a lot to do in order to get it really seaworthy. I plan on leaving it in dry storage at the outer banks and use for Gulf Stream runs


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This thread really makes me think. Here are guys on this thread buying and accepting rusted, rotting junk just so they can fix it up and either learn something, or just to entertain themselves. Everybody knows that getting old machines up and running almost always costs more than they are worth and that your are far better buying a good used, running example, so nobody is doing it to save money.

What if it were just as easy to buy a rotting airplane on Craigslist for not much money, tinker on it and get her going without tremendous expense and government paperwork? The ramps of America are littered with airplane projects where many of them look easier than these boat projects. We seriously, seriously need an Experimental / Factory Built category. How many folks out there that just wanted a project and wanted to learn would take on an airplane?
 
Dav8or said:
This thread really makes me think. Here are guys on this thread buying and accepting rusted, rotting junk just so they can fix it up and either learn something, or just to entertain themselves. Everybody knows that getting old machines up and running almost always costs more than they are worth and that your are far better buying a good used, running example, so nobody is doing it to save money.

What if it were just as easy to buy a rotting airplane on Craigslist for not much money, tinker on it and get her going without tremendous expense and government paperwork? The ramps of America are littered with airplane projects where many of them look easier than these boat projects. We seriously, seriously need an Experimental / Factory Built category. How many folks out there that just wanted a project and wanted to learn would take on an airplane?
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Nothing stopping you from doing that. You can do all the work you want, all you need is an A&P to sign off the work and an IA to sign off the annual. Th CRS I worked at had K-35 Bonanza the owner was restoring in it. He did most all the work with one of us lending a hand when an extra set was needed. I think most people wouldn't take it on as a learning experience because even cheap planes are relatively expensive to the car and boat projects people talk about, and the consequences of mistakes are scarier.
 
I don't know if I would ever take on a plane project. If someone gave me a plane that had been sitting in the hangar for 20 years, I might give it a shot. But to actually pay money for something rotting on the ramp... ehh don't know about that.

The boat project is okay because I can work on it in my driveway. I took it on because I could save money. I paid $5500 for the boat and trailer. Will have about $7500 in it when all is said and done. Value probably $12,000
 
Henning said:
Nothing stopping you from doing that. You can do all the work you want, all you need is an A&P to sign off the work and an IA to sign off the annual. Th CRS I worked at had K-35 Bonanza the owner was restoring in it. He did most all the work with one of us lending a hand when an extra set was needed. I think most people wouldn't take it on as a learning experience because even cheap planes are relatively expensive to the car and boat projects people talk about, and the consequences of mistakes are scarier.
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I think the larger problem is the people who own this junk won't sell it for what it's actually worth.

I personally won't pay over a thousand dollars for something that doesn't actually work. Maybe I'll raise that number later in life when I have more cash sitting around but paying 15k for a ramp queen, no thanks...
 
jesse said:
I think the larger problem is the people who own this junk won't sell it for what it's actually worth.

I personally won't pay over a thousand dollars for something that doesn't actually work. Maybe I'll raise that number later in life when I have more cash sitting around but paying 15k for a ramp queen, no thanks...
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If salvage value is that, how do you expect to buy it for $1000? Some engine cores fetch close to $15k.
 
Even if you do all the restoration work on a plane yourself, the limits on parts will be the killer. Otherwise, yes, there would be a lot more planes in the sky.

However, a boat is way more forgiving than a plane if you screw up...
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Even if you do all the restoration work on a plane yourself, the limits on parts will be the killer. Otherwise, yes, there would be a lot more planes in the sky.

However, a boat is way more forgiving than a plane if you screw up...
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Not sure about the 'way', but yes, they are somewhat more forgiving. Not every mistake on a plane is going to cost you your life either. It really doesn't take much to hold together to fly. Also the conditions a boat has to face are considerably more brutal, especially if you're in the middle or other side of the Gulf Stream and the wind picks up out of the NE.
 
I had no idea what I was doing, and mostly drove a boat around just fine with effectively no experience. I think success in a plane for that same sort of thing would be minimal, and that's what you'd see happen.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I had no idea what I was doing, and mostly drove a boat around just fine with effectively no experience. I think success in a plane for that same sort of thing would be minimal, and that's what you'd see happen.
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That's because minimum energy to float and maneuver a boat is near zero, not so in a plane. However, a boat is subject to much more energy from nature that you cannot avoid as easily as in a plane. The boat you're not driving around squalls due to speed and/or geographical limits, also your terminal energy on a boat is higher and you don't have a safety/restraint system.

Either one will get you killed if you don't understand what you're doing and know/respect the limitations. Plenty of people die in boating accidents every year.
 
Henning said:
Either one will get you killed if you don't understand what you're doing and know/respect the limitations. Plenty of people die in boating accidents every year.
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Absolutely, but I think my point still holds.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Absolutely, but I think my point still holds.
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Only to a point though, it's actually operating in the vertical dimension as well that takes learning in a plane because we have no natural experience with that, so we need to learn the new perspectives. Boats operate on the same plane with the same perspectives we have been learning since birth. Once that is learned then the hazards levels are about the same, the prime hazard being human stupidity and bad decision making, both in operations and maintenance.

Let me put it this way, next hurricane I'm in, I'd prefer to be in a plane.
 
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Henning said:
Let me put it this way, next hurricane I'm in, I'd prefer to be in a plane.
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Me too, but who does a first test of a new boat or plane in a hurricane? :dunno:
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Me too, but who does a first test of a new boat or plane in a hurricane? :dunno:
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None, however powerful squalls can kick up the same sea states amazingly quickly and can come about on what was predicted a beautiful day. The only difference physically between a hurricane and a 70kt+ "white squall" is how long you're in it. If you're offshore on a boat, you're not going to out run it unless you have a really fast boat.
 
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Henning said:
None, however powerful squalls can kick up the same sea states amazingly quickly and can come about on what was predicted a beautiful day. The only difference physically between a hurricane and a 70kt+ "white squall" is how long you're in it. If you're offshore on a boat, you're not going to out run it unless you have a really fast boat.
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Highest i've seen is 45 knots. It didn't stay that way for long.

Except for the microburst. I never got a chance to look at the anemometer because it came and went so fast, I was just trying not to fall out of the cockpit. The wind went from 15 knots to 60 or 70 with no warning at all.
 
dell30rb said:
Highest i've seen is 45 knots. It didn't stay that way for long.

Except for the microburst. I never got a chance to look at the anemometer because it came and went so fast, I was just trying not to fall out of the cockpit. The wind went from 15 knots to 60 or 70 with no warning at all.
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The Gulf Stream is good at building those when there's a cold front in the vicinity. Those get a lot of people hurt being tossed around. It only takes one good wave to send someone flying.
 
Henning said:
None, however powerful squalls can kick up the same sea states amazingly quickly and can come about on what was predicted a beautiful day. The only difference physically between a hurricane and a 70kt+ "white squall" is how long you're in it. If you're offshore on a boat, you're not going to out run it unless you have a really fast boat.
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Depends on where you're operating. People successfully pilot pontoon boats on inland lakes because the conditions are benign and you're never more than five minutes from shore. Only a crazy person would take one out in the ocean.

Operating a boat in a protected waterway doesn't require much skill.
 
FormerHangie said:
Depends on where you're operating. People successfully pilot pontoon boats on inland lakes because the conditions are benign and you're never more than five minutes from shore. Only a crazy person would take one out in the ocean.

Operating a boat in a protected waterway doesn't require much skill.
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Nope, yet a bunch of people get killed every year doing it.
 
Damn speaking of boats, I just lost my shore power inverter.:mad2: I can smell capacitor smoke from my bed. Gonna have to live off the generator for a while.:( This should be interesting to fix in Italy. Last time I had to fix one was in Indonesia and it ended up costing $10k.
 
Henning said:
Nope, yet a bunch of people get killed every year doing it.
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We've had something like five fatalities on one lake here. Most of them involve alcohol, or a nonswimmer falling out and drowning, usually at night.
 
Henning said:
Damn speaking of boats, I just lost my shore power inverter.:mad2: I can smell capacitor smoke from my bed. Gonna have to live off the generator for a while.:( This should be interesting to fix in Italy. Last time I had to fix one was in Indonesia and it ended up costing $10k.
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That's what you get for running the AC on the inverter. The power transistors blew in summer. I could send you some transistors, just read me the 2N number off the can. Caps blow because of the unreg power spikes.
 
docmirror said:
That's what you get for running the AC on the inverter. The power transistors blew in summer. I could send you some transistors, just read me the 2N number off the can. Caps blow because of the unreg power spikes.
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The entire boat runs on the inverter. This is a "take any power in, get 220/60hz split phase out which the boat is set up for. The shore power here is 380/50z 3 phase. What it does is converts the power to 700v DC and inverts it back to what the boat is set up for AC.

image.jpg
 
Henning said:
The entire boat runs on the inverter. This is a "take any power in, get 220/60hz split phase out which the boat is set up for. The shore power here is 380/50z 3 phase. What it does is converts the power to 700v DC and inverts it back to what the boat is set up for AC.

View attachment 35541
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Silly Wabbit. I know exactly what an inverter is. I worked on them for years. I also know what breaks. There's a large aluminum heat sink that runs the length of the unit somewhere inside. Bolted to that are going to be about 8-10 transistors, maybe more depending on the wattage of the unit. Find them, and get the 2N number off the can. If there's no 2N number, get the whole printing and I can find you replacements.
 
docmirror said:
Silly Wabbit. I know exactly what an inverter is. I worked on them for years. I also know what breaks. There's a large aluminum heat sink that runs the length of the unit somewhere inside. Bolted to that are going to be about 8-10 transistors, maybe more depending on the wattage of the unit. Find them, and get the 2N number off the can. If there's no 2N number, get the whole printing and I can find you replacements.
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Then why did you say this? "That's what you get for running the AC on the inverter." Like I have a choice?:dunno:
 
Henning said:
Then why did you say this? "That's what you get for running the AC on the inverter." Like I have a choice?:dunno:
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Turn off the AC, don't blow the inverter. Compressor surge does it. :nono:
 
docmirror said:
Turn off the AC, don't blow the inverter. Compressor surge does it. :nono:
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Turn off the A/C, are you nuts? You know what happens to these varnished interiors when you turn off the A/C besides making them unlivable? This unit is made to power it all up to a 150amp load, and my 'everything on' load is under 120amps on the surges, as we normally are we draw 63 amps with 2 compressors running for the chiller as well as normal lighting and galley loads. If I followed your instructions I could NEVER run the AC when on shore power because all the shore power feeds through it all the time. You obviously have no clue as to big boat systems.
 
Henning said:
Turn off the A/C, are you nuts? You know what happens to these varnished interiors when you turn off the A/C besides making them unlivable? This unit is made to power it all up to a 150amp load, and my 'everything on' load is under 120amps on the surges, as we normally are we draw 63 amps with 2 compressors running for the chiller as well as normal lighting and galley loads. If I followed your instructions I could NEVER run the AC when on shore power because all the shore power feeds through it all the time. You obviously have no clue as to big boat systems.
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Lol,,, That's kids play to what I used to work on. 120 amps is barely what our backup scram pump loads ran. Call me when you get to a 100KW system. :lol:

I see you're worried about wood varnish. That tells me all I need to know.
 
docmirror said:
Lol,,, That's kids play to what I used to work on. 120 amps is barely what our backup scram pump loads ran. Call me when you get to a 100KW system. :lol:

I see you're worried about wood varnish. That tells me all I need to know.
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I ask again, how will the AC ever be used at the dock? Of course I'm worried about the interior varnish, I'm paid very well to make sure this boat stays in spectacular condition. People don't like it when you let the interior of the $5MM dollar boat start to crack and peal from swelling in the humidity. Call me a silly wabbit, you're a Daffy Duck. I'm also sure the owner wants to sit and swelter in his cabin along with his guests...:rolleyes2:

That inverter is the cheapest system on this boat.
 
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Dav8or said:
What if it were just as easy to buy a rotting airplane on Craigslist for not much money, tinker on it and get her going without tremendous expense and government paperwork? The ramps of America are littered with airplane projects where many of them look easier than these boat projects. We seriously, seriously need an Experimental / Factory Built category. How many folks out there that just wanted a project and wanted to learn would take on an airplane?
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it is that easy. Every plane i've owned i brought home on a ferry permit or on a trailer. But no matter what, you dont lessen the expense. Its not about saving money. Its to end up with exactly what you want.
 
JHW said:
it is that easy. Every plane i've owned i brought home on a ferry permit or on a trailer. But no matter what, you dont lessen the expense. Its not about saving money. Its to end up with exactly what you want.
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Yep, that's the only reason to take on a project plane, be it cert or exp.
 
RalphInCA said:
How would you figure MPG on a jet ski? You are just going in circles!
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That is the general problem, yes. The best way under normal circumstances is to see what your GPH is and use a good cruise speed to do the math with.
 
RalphInCA said:
How would you figure MPG on a jet ski? You are just going in circles!
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It is hard for some to believe, but there are those of us out there that actually travel point A to point B on a Jet Ski. You can travel the rivers and oceans kind of like motorcycles. Plan your trips fuel dock to fuel dock. It's been years since I just sat on a beach and rode my ski in circles.
 
Henning said:
Nothing stopping you from doing that. You can do all the work you want, all you need is an A&P to sign off the work and an IA to sign off the annual. Th CRS I worked at had K-35 Bonanza the owner was restoring in it. He did most all the work with one of us lending a hand when an extra set was needed. I think most people wouldn't take it on as a learning experience because even cheap planes are relatively expensive to the car and boat projects people talk about, and the consequences of mistakes are scarier.
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My point is, making the process easier, cheaper and more accessible to people. How many people would buy and start kit planes if they had to hire an IA to sign off on each stage of the work and keep logs about everything, buy only FAA certified parts, keep all the paperwork straight and no modifications not approved by the FAA allowed? I believe that if the project appealed to the hobbyist as more doable and less red tape, more people would go for it.

You personally could buy that neglected Mooney and put an IO-470 in it and enjoy the fruits of your labor.
 
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