I don't use it instead, I use it in addition to, as in "9SA with you climbing through five thousand two hundred for seven thousand five hundred". I won't give up "Thanks, have a good day" either.
Things/Sayings You Hate Hearing On The Radio!
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I don't use it instead, I use it in addition to, as in "9SA with you climbing through five thousand two hundred for seven thousand five hundred". I won't give up "Thanks, have a good day" either.
denverpilot
Tied Down
I don't use it instead, I use it in addition to, as in "9SA with you climbing through five thousand two hundred for seven thousand five hundred". I won't give up "Thanks, have a good day" either.
As do many others. They're "useless words" that convey no additional information. Just take up air time. I use similarly "polite" phraseology when things are quiet, but when I hear folks doing it on ultra-busy frequencies it grates at my nerves. Because people are creatures of habit, they fall back to doing it under stress.
Cutting off the beginning if transmissions is also a speed/stress related behavior both on ATC radios and others. Police dispatchers learn to key on the word "fired" since "Shots" rarely makes it through the radio from the adrenaline-pumped Officer.
And Officers tend to repeat that phrase twice wasting time that's needed for a location. They also yell, which is a fully natural reaction to bullets whizzing by, making the transmission almost uncopyable almost every time the first time. Pilots have it easy compared to someone being shot at. We can hold ourselves to a higher standard with almost no extra effort.
I've listened to a LOT of Public Safety Dispatch tapes. Pilots fall somewhere in the amount of radio discipline and professionalism just above the snow plow and garbage truck drivers and are far more variable than almost any group of two-way users.. Controllers usually approach Public Safety Dispatcher levels of professionalism and get chatty only when things quiet down. Public Safety Dispatchers rarely get chatty.
Public Safety have almost all universally moved to troubled systems where dispatchers can override an incoming transmission and talk over it, something aircraft AM in it's current simplex form can't do since we hear other aircraft "direct". The conversations on message boards reminding new pilots that the controller may be working multiple frequencies for example. In the Public Safety world the receivers are patched back into the system transmitters so everyone hears exactly what the dispatcher is hearing. This requires split transmit and receive frequencies, which Aviation doesn't do.
The other useful feature of most dispatch systems that's been becoming popular in the last decade is the ability for the dispatcher to transmit a series of four or five repetitive tones as an "attention" signal to all listening. It helps interrupt the flow and gets people to listen when there's a "everybody shut up and pay attention" moment.
Public Safety radios themselves also now typically have a "panic button". On a trunked system with multiple receivers available this gives any user the ability to override what the dispatcher is hearing and be top dog for their attention also. Think "Mayday" here. Yes there's plenty of false alarms on these but it's better to have than not have.
There's lots of ways Aircraft radio full-system design could have been made better. FAA is off chasing the ADS-B dream instead. Aviation radio systems stopped being updated technologically sometime before LP records came out. There's already a couple generations who've never listened to one of those.
"With you" is under 1 second, "Thanks, God day" comes in just around 1 second, I've never been on a frequency that busy.
denverpilot
Tied Down
I have. Probably stems from flying out of one of the top five busiest GA airports in the country. Of course the problems there usually aren't "with you", they're far far dumber. Which usually jams up things worse than a couple words worth.
When I teach folks radio stuff, I just remind them that sounding like professionals helps assure better service for everyone and not all professionals are truly professional-grade.
Some people start out thinking every little detail is required... I don't call my wife on the phone and say, "Hello Karen, I'm with you here on the phone to tell you I'm at the corner of Singing Hills and Hilltop Road and I'm 15 minutes from making a right turn into the driveway and setting the parking break after deftly turning left and missing your pickup truck by a foot as I like up perfectly in the right hand parking location." I say, "Be there in 15 minutes."
MooneyDriver78
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Tom
I've heard ATPs do both.
I was at Orlando Exec, and was given a taxi instruction:
F K A, cross 31, A2 hold short 25
and read it back as
F K A, clear to cross 31, A2, hold short 25
The ground controller blasted me, "you haven't been cleared for anything", wanted to talk to my instructor, which I responded I was solo pilot, then he ranted on and on...
At which point a lear jet pilot cut in "if you are finished, we like to get our clearance", which knock the controller back on his heels and I eventually read it again and this time I didn't use the "clear to"
My CPI said that my read back was fine, we use that at my home airport, it's the only time I've heard a controller yell at someone, and hopefully the last time it happens to me
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Clark1961
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... I don't call my wife on the phone and say, "Hello Karen, I'm with you here on the phone to tell you I'm at the corner of Singing Hills and Hilltop Road and I'm 15 minutes from making a right turn into the driveway and setting the parking break after deftly turning left and missing your pickup truck by a foot as I like up perfectly in the right hand parking location." I say, "Be there in 15 minutes."
Yabut you prolly think it then post it on some board then make the call...
I have. Probably stems from flying out of one of the top five busiest GA airports in the country. Of course the problems there usually aren't "with you", they're far far dumber. Which usually jams up things worse than a couple words worth.
When I teach folks radio stuff, I just remind them that sounding like professionals helps assure better service for everyone and not all professionals are truly professional-grade.
Some people start out thinking every little detail is required... I don't call my wife on the phone and say, "Hello Karen, I'm with you here on the phone to tell you I'm at the corner of Singing Hills and Hilltop Road and I'm 15 minutes from making a right turn into the driveway and setting the parking break after deftly turning left and missing your pickup truck by a foot as I like up perfectly in the right hand parking location." I say, "Be there in 15 minutes."
The main problem I see in time is "aaaaah..." As in "Miami Approach aaaaaaaa 4XX is ahhhhhhh 10 thousand two hundred aaaaaaah down for three thousand ahhhh would like ahhhhhh the ILS ahhhh 09 Miami over."
m_t_d
Filing Flight Plan
I try to be very careful with the word "clear." Around Bravo airspace, particularly in the DC SFRA, you have the phrases, "cleared into the Bravo" and "remain clear of Bravo" which I think might be confusing with the use of "clear" in both phrases. I tend to prefer "remain outside Bravo" instead, in the same way "line up and wait" has been adopted to avoid confusion with "holding short."
dwalt
Pre-takeoff checklist
I'm sure this has been said but I can't stand:
"XXXX traffic, Cessna 12345, 3 miles from FIX, on the ILS runway XX"
I don't think these guys realize that the point is to make it easy for other traffic to find you
"XXXX traffic, Cessna 12345, 3 miles from FIX, on the ILS runway XX"
I don't think these guys realize that the point is to make it easy for other traffic to find you
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Velocity173
I've heard ATPs do both.
I was at Orlando Exec, and was given a taxi instruction:
F K A, cross 31, A2 hold short 25
and read it back as
F K A, clear to cross 31, A2, hold short 25
The ground controller blasted me, "you haven't been cleared for anything", wanted to talk to my instructor, which I responded I was solo pilot, then he ranted on and on...
At which point a lear jet pilot cut in "if you are finished, we like to get our clearance", which knock the controller back on his heels and I eventually read it again and this time I didn't use the "clear to"
My CPI said that my read back was fine, we use that at my home airport, it's the only time I've heard a controller yell at someone, and hopefully the last time it happens to me
Well you could have just readback "FKA hold short of 25" and you would have been good as well. Though the taxi instruction isn't technically a clearance, the controller did overreact in your case.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Oh that's a societal problem far bigger than just on the radio. You can turn it into a drinking game watching anyone speak including the President. I counted over 20 during the Governor's speech here after the floods.
"A crap-ton of water fell. We're going to work on cleaning it up. Any questions?" would have covered it.
Politicians get sexually aroused by hearing themselves talk, I swear.
denverpilot
Tied Down
They won't allow that anymore. You have to read back all the crossings along with the limit nowadays.
Tarheelpilot
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When someone says "last call" at the end of their last radio transmission on the unicom while departing the airport. Had not heard this one until earlier this summer from a corporate guy leaving the local airport. Confused me because my initial reaction was to order a scotch. Then I remembered I was not at the bar. Have heard it about a dozen times since. Always some transient jet jock departing an uncontrolled field after a pax drop. I have found a new thing not to like.
Why? It means he's leaving frequency and won't hear you if you try to call him.
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Oops didn't see the crossing runway. Correct, they're gonna want to hear the crossing runway as well.
bqmassey
Line Up and Wait
Yeah, what's the consensus on this call? I hear it a lot at the airport I fly out of now. At first it bugged me, probably because I'd never heard it, but I'm used to it now.
airguy
Cleared for Takeoff
I've heard it before a couple times, don't mind it really. It lets you know he's not coming around for a touch and go, he's departing the area and going off frequency. "Last call" is definitely a lot shorter than "Departing the area and going off frequency."
Pick your battles.
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It seems the .65 still only has the requirement to get a readback of the assigned runway and hold short instructions. Not sure if they'd fuss about a crossing or not. But I'd stick with the AIM and readback the crossing runway to be safe. Not really excess verbaige anyway.
Tarheelpilot
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It's not standard. Not in the pilot glossary and if you're leaving the airspace I don't need to talk to you. It bugs me.
dtuuri
Final Approach
I absolutely detest "go missed". Not when girls say it, but the guys. They sound like girls.
dtuuri
denverpilot
Tied Down
Why would I care? Unicorns are for announcements not chatting.
I want to let up and say, "We will miss you, cupcake."
ChrisK
En-Route
Ah the fabled announcement unicorn.
denverpilot
Tied Down
I really hate autocorrect tonight. LOL!
denverpilot
Tied Down
Note that "key" was autocorrected to "let" also. Argh.
GCA319
Cleared for Takeoff
Twr: Lakes Air 95X, contact ABQ center 132.8.
GLA95X: SEEEEEEEEEEYAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Like nails on a flippin chalk board. I feel for you guys that fly out of the DEN area and have to hear this more than twice per day.
GLA95X: SEEEEEEEEEEYAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Like nails on a flippin chalk board. I feel for you guys that fly out of the DEN area and have to hear this more than twice per day.
Clark1961
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Don't worry, DEN approach does it too but usually not so long and drawn out...
GCA319
Cleared for Takeoff
Whenever I hear Great Mistakes pilots do that, I want to key the mic and say, "You may sound cool, but I fly a single for a living and still make more money than you."
Clark1961
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It all balances out, at times they fly as well as they are paid...
MassPilot
Cleared for Takeoff
Believe it or not, I hear the Providence Approach controllers do this all the time.
PVD: 43X, contact Cape Approach 119.7
43X: 119.7 for Cape Approach, 43X good day
PVD: SEEEEEEEEEEYAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
It makes me laugh every time. If it was a pilot I'd probably roll my eyes, but I find it funny when I hear it from ATC.
ive actually been guilty of this a couple of times. now i just say n12345 would like to terminate radar services. BTW is this the correct thing to say? say you are on flight following and you dont want flight following anymore. can you just say what i wrote?
Clark1961
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I just say something along the lines of "cancel radar services please"
Swampfox201
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Todd W.
Topper
Pre-takeoff checklist
I like these threads, hopefully they keep me from sounding stupid on the radio. I probably would have said with you if if were not for previous threads. I just say my altitude. I omit "level" and figure they will assume that since I did not say climbing or descending.
The phrase I hate is "down and clear" I don't know why it bothers me. It conveys the necessary information, but I think it sounds stupid. There is an airport I fly into a couple times a week where someone must teach it. I prefer "clear of XX" I think it is more precise, however it does not bother me when someone states "clear of the active". I can't pinpoint why "down and clear" bugs me.
The phrase I hate is "down and clear" I don't know why it bothers me. It conveys the necessary information, but I think it sounds stupid. There is an airport I fly into a couple times a week where someone must teach it. I prefer "clear of XX" I think it is more precise, however it does not bother me when someone states "clear of the active". I can't pinpoint why "down and clear" bugs me.
One erroneous transmission on 121.5 like 'Podunk Jetcenter for execjet 124' (clearly someone who just double-tapped his flip-flop button on com2)
followed by:
'on guard'
'you are on guard !'
'on guard !'
'this is guard !'
'On guard'
followed by:
'on guard'
'you are on guard !'
'on guard !'
'this is guard !'
'On guard'
mcmanigle
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I was flying around in North Carolina a few years ago when somebody broadcast on guard (must have just been a flight following request or similar). It took him a while to figure out what was going on; he didn't know what the word "guard" meant, and eventually other pilots were trying to give him more explicit instructions to check his frequency and press his flip-flop button and check which radio he was transmitting on, etc. Eventually he went away (whether to the right frequency or just giving up, we may never know).
A few pilots made a sarcastic remark or two, until somebody with a rather Charlton Heston-esque voice said "may he who has not sinned cast the first stone." Things got fairly quiet after that. Pretty amusing overall.
dcmoser
Pre-Flight
My transition instructor for my Saratoga had some radio jargon that aggravated him to no end. He flew out of Sturgis, MI and he would be on the ground or just airborne and hear someone announce they were 25 miles southwest of the airport and will report left downwind for 16. It's a small airport and he said these pilots will pass over 3 airports before they get to to Sturgis. It annoyed him to no end. He said one time after such an announcement followed by the " any traffic in the area" phrase, he keyed his mike and announced Piper Nxxx is on a 60 mile final for Grand Rapids 35. He flew for FedEx for years and passed away a couple years ago. One of those guys you really miss.
Hmmm....how come I've never heard "......nd" over the radio? Always heard the full "ands" and "uhhs".
Because is it s a vestige from vacuum tube radios and not required on any modern equipment. Kind of like the magic three actuations of the prop control 'to get warm oil into the hub' and pulling through the prop 'to check for hydrolock' on horizontal opposed engines.