they towed a plane into our plane on the ramp.

No effing excuse for hitting a parked plane...

You are going to freak when you see the estimate.
 
One reason this likely happened is that this is NASCAR weekend at TEXAS MOTOR SPEEDWAY and KDTO is the next closes airport after KAFW that can handle the various biz jets that the teams and super fans travel in (runway, ramp, and hangar space). Right now we are 3 times as full as normal with the bigger jets, including Dale Jr's.

So having the FBO rappers moving a citation and not watching out for 6PC's little bug masher is sorta expected.
 
AggieMike88 said:
One reason this likely happened is that this is NASCAR weekend at TEXAS MOTOR SPEEDWAY and KDTO is the next closes airport after KAFW that can handle the various biz jets that the teams and super fans travel in (runway, ramp, and hangar space). Right now we are 3 times as full as normal with the bigger jets, including Dale Jr's.

So having the FBO rappers moving a citation and not watching out for 6PC's little bug masher is sorta expected.
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I highly doubt that it happened because someone didn't care about the plane. I'm sure whoever screwed up didn't want that to happen anymore than the plane owner.
 
MotoFlier said:
I highly doubt that it happened because someone didn't care about the plane. I'm sure whoever screwed up didn't want that to happen anymore than the plane owner.
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Yup, and I bet they feel terrible about it. I just hope someone doesn't lose their job over a mistake that any human being could make.
 
Cirrus. Pull the chute.
 
Kritchlow said:
Yup, and I bet they feel terrible about it. I just hope someone doesn't lose their job over a mistake that any human being could make.
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Being fired is usually the first thing that happens.
 
tumblr_nuf8epBkBP1s362b9o1_1280.jpg
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
Being fired is usually the first thing that happens.
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I hope not.

This particular young man is so respectful. I can never even get him to cut up and relax. Calls me Sir, hands me water bottles when I get out of the plane, always tries to refuse my tips. If I take off, he asks when I am returning and he will stay late / arrive early.

Really a true professional which is rare at his age (I would guess 22 maybe)

He's a good kid.
 
Well, that sucks. Sorry to hear about it. Let's hope the FBO is as stand-up as you believe they are.

Rich
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
The fbo towed a plane on the ramp into the back of our plane.
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A. Which plane? I think you have two.

B. See - this right here, is why Texas have guns.

Tow a plane into my plane and BLAM! Won't make that mistake again.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anyway, sorry to hear. Hope it's not too bad and you'll be on the road soon. In the mean time, fly the old thing.
 
Sorry to hear about this!!! Hope it's all patched up soon.
 
docmirror said:
A. Which plane? I think you have two.

B. See - this right here, is why Texas have guns.

Tow a plane into my plane and BLAM! Won't make that mistake again.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anyway, sorry to hear. Hope it's not too bad and you'll be on the road soon. In the mean time, fly the old thing.
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Sold the old thing.
Just have the Cirrus at the moment.

I should have my own plane in 2016 barring any interruptions to my financial plan.



Edit: sorry to use the word "Just" in that sentence. It is an amazing machine and I really am fortunate I can use it on a whim. It is a big deal to me and I don't take it for granted.
 
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Oh Well, shi- happens, Get it fixed send them the bill, and be sure to advise your insurance company.
 
Would someone please think of the tug? How does the tug feel about all this? Will the tug be able to tug again.???
 
Sorry to hear about your plane! Please keep us updated!!

Zeldman said:
Would someone please think of the tug? How does the tug feel about all this? Will the tug be able to tug again.???
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:yeahthat:
 
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Sorry for your troubles,hope all works out,hope you get compensated for the down time ,loss of use ,while they fix it.
 
Just that in itself would make it impossibe for me to get ****ed...humans make mistakes but there is still no excuse for hitting an aircraft with a tug...

The big question for me; Was he working alone?

If this kid is sincere(and I do think he is) this will be a teachable moment that will change his life. I, for one, appreciate your outlook on the kid.


SixPapaCharlie said:
I hope not.

This particular young man is so respectful. I can never even get him to cut up and relax. Calls me Sir, hands me water bottles when I get out of the plane, always tries to refuse my tips. If I take off, he asks when I am returning and he will stay late / arrive early.

Really a true professional which is rare at his age (I would guess 22 maybe)

He's a good kid.
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Replacing the elevator should straightforward.

If the horizontal stabilizer requires replacement, that is possible. I've seen a Cirrus in a shop with that removed already, in preparation for replacement. If you've ever built a Revell brand plastic airplane model you will have the idea. They insert the fiberglas horizontal stabilizer assembly into a reinforced slot that passes all the way through the tail of the fiberglas fuselage, where it is glued in place, then painted
 
AKBill said:
Then there was the time a portable out house came loose and landed on my right wing tip during a wind storm. $3000 and about a month to get replaced.
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I had no idea outhouses were that expensive. :rofl:

Bryan, this sucks... and if you have to have it repaired on the field (not safe to fly?) that will complicate things. Is there a good composite shop on the field at KDTO? A conversation with Cirrus Support is probably your best next move.

EDIT: After reading the thread, I see you have a Cirrus facility on field; this is a "good thing." And, love your attitude about the young man that made the mistake. Perhaps an appeal on your behalf to the management that nothing really bad happen to him, recounting his previous exemplary / professional behavior, would be in order. Despite his mistake, kids like that are a rare find these days. Would hate to see him lose his job, or them lose such a dedicated employee.
 
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TangoWhiskey said:
I had no idea outhouses were that expensive. :rofl:

Bryan, this sucks... and if you have to have it repaired on the field (not safe to fly?) that will complicate things. Is there a good composite shop on the field at KDTO? A conversation with Cirrus Support is probably your best next move.
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We are sorting that out.
The elevator is frozen full up so it can't be flown (for more than a few seconds anyway)

I expect some of the local cirrus representation to handle the repair.
We talk to their people on Monday to learn (and hopefully dictate a bit) how this process will work moving forward.

We have a cirrus mx in Denton and one at meechum.
They have an office inn Addison as well.
 
I completely agree with Troy about talking to mngmt, good word in for the ramper based on what you are saying. Many sm.biz managers are seeking that kind of input on situations and will listen to customers.
 
A story I heard from a cousin's in-laws. The mother-in-law's father owned an FBO and flight school. The rampies let the guy's 15 year old son drive the tug, I assume with an aircraft in tow. He drove it into three other airplanes, destroyed them all. Insurance balked, and the father was ruined. Blamed his son till the day he (the father) died.

Oh, and sorry about the damage. That sux
 
this just proves that the 6PC family needs a 2nd plane! c'mon flyin' bryin', put in some OT and get that plane!!

or, u know, start a gofundme account.
 
if the kid was moving a jet alone on a busy NASCAR weekend...

and...

if there's not a policy that dictates a wing walker (or two) when moving something as big as a citation...

...then I think the fault lies with management, not the kid.

Sounds like the FBO may have planned on scoring heavy on this weekend's revenues but didn't feel obliged to "ramp up" their staffing to keep their ramp safe.

If my above speculation is anywhere close to accurate then bad on them and this is an accident they asked for.

It's not the kid's fault...it's the FBO's fault.

OTOH, if they do have a policy that you don't move a jet solo then bad on the kid.

But it really sucks for you Brain!

As a point of reference, at my home base, no plane larger than a singe is moved solo. That's the FBO's policy (owned by the city).
 
eman1200 said:
this just proves that the 6PC family needs a 2nd plane! c'mon flyin' bryin', put in some OT and get that plane!!

or, u know, start a gofundme account.
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Believe me, I am working on it.
 
timwinters said:
if the kid was moving a jet alone on a busy NASCAR weekend...

and...

if there's not a policy that dictates a wing walker (or two) when moving something as big as a citation...

...then I think the fault lies with management, not the kid.

If my above speculation is anywhere close to accurate then bad on them and this is an accident they asked for.

It's not the kid's fault...it's the FBO's fault.
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:yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat:
 
I had my first experience with hangar rash yesterday myself (in almost 1.5 years of working here). CTLS winglet against an A/C fan box on a hangar wall, left a small nail-head sized flat spot against the tip. No structural damage, I felt it happen and immediately stopped.

When the hangar rash happened, I had a group of ~20 JROTC kids with me that I was showing around the hangar and letting them look at the planes (without touching). I got a call from a tenant asking to fuel his plane (CTLS) and I asked if the kids could spot me since we were going back that way anyway (they cleared the wings and looked like they were). I pushed the tail down and turned to get around a car parked in the middle of the hangar and the winglet rubbed into the A/C unit.

Dumb move on my part expecting someone else to spot me. I had been moving at light speed all day to that point. I work alone every weekend but rarely are they that outrageously busy. As soon as the rash happened, I looked to see how bad it was, got the car driver to move it out of the way (should have done first) and got the plane to the pump, whereupon another mess unraveled itself that I had to go solve solo. I didn't tell the boss immediately because 1) day off 2) it wouldn't change the damage 3) the guy was showing up in an hour or two and I would tell him about it before he left and 4) I was a bit preoccupied with the 8 other things on my list I had to do ASAP. Someone else told my boss before I did and now my trustworthiness is in question.

The owner looked at the spot and told me that I shouldn't sweat over it and that he isn't upset - things happen.

hNAyXPy.jpg


The damage sucks and you have every right to be upset with the tug driver, but thank you for being accomodating. I hate that I damaged someone else's plane in any way, and I should've not trusted the kids to watch or even asked them to do it in the first place.

I pulled a twin cessna through the grass a few weeks ago by accident because it was parked too close to the edge of the ramp nose first. It rained the night before meaning the tug would sink. I couldn't push it back on my own, but I could pull it (slight incline). Turned it to the farthest it would go and tried to line it up on the tug so I could push it backwards and it ended up going too far and rolling into the grass. I had to move it so I could get another plane out and there was no other way to do it. A 2nd person would have made it possible to push it back far enough to get the tug on it but it was first thing in the morning and no mechanics were around and I was alone. I told the boss to tell the owner about it and that it was my fault.

We do not have a policy about moving aircraft with wing walkers for hangar or ramp movement. The mechanics are sometimes able to help make sure I don't hit anything.

Thank you for being lenient.
 
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Some FBOs have this policy when moving an airplane in the hangar, but fewer do when moving it on the ramp. In any case, the spotters might have been looking more at the wings and tail of the Citation and not the tug.
 
Yep. For a wing walker to be effective, he has to be actually watching the wing and the tug driver or marshaller (in the case of taxiing incidents) needs to be watching the wing walkers. It is amazing how often this isn't done correctly. I have seen my share of the results.
 
NoHeat said:
I've seen a Cirrus in a shop with that removed already, in preparation for replacement. If you've ever built a Revell brand plastic airplane model you will have the idea. They insert the fiberglas horizontal stabilizer assembly into a reinforced slot that passes all the way through the tail of the fiberglas fuselage, where it is glued in place, then painted
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Yeah, that makes me want to run out and put my butt in a Cirrus...
 
I have seen some rentals where damage like that would be considered flyable!

(Just kidding)

(Well Sorta just kidding)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
kgruber said:
The big jet FBOs always have a wing walker.

They still have accidents.
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And your point?

Some women on birth control still get pregnant, but...

Some people still get killed wearing their seatbelts in cars with airbags, but...

Some people who have had a flu shot still get the flu, but...

And on the other side of the coin...

Thanks to beer, a lot of ugly people still get laid, but...
 
But towing the jet doesn't seem to be the issue since it was the tug that hit the Cirrus. Could have been towing a PA-28 and it still might have happened.
 
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