These folks need to be stopped.

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AviationObserver

AviationObserver

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This is from years ago. Also its not all bad ive heard the cockpit joke way to many times im fine with phasing it out. Language evolves standards change its why retard or gay as an insult fell out of favor if i can find a better way to do something I'll adapt.

Flightdeck accomplishes the same thing and less open to the hurdur cockpit jokes i have to hear so whats the downside?

I think institutions and people are smart enough to take the good and bad and adapt.

If i can do the same thing more precisely and with increased politeness then sign me up. Doesnt mean im going to torture language but if saying “hey everybody from the flightdeck it's captain falcon welcome aboard..." Works just as well as "hey guys from the cockpit..."

Outside of some terminally online anti woke looking to be offended theres no downside to using more neutral language where it fits just as well and is more polite.

Edit gotta love the bottom sceen text “pilots used to worry about safety now worry about the word cockpit" what a load of asinine crap. What kind of fakenews tabloid crap is that. Nothing but contempt for whoever put that in there. I guarantee not one alpa member has sacrificed one iotta of safety for this.
 
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eman1200 said:
pretty pathetic, as always. just ****ral attention seekers. maybe ignore them so they go away?

funny thing is, as usual they have no idea what cockpit actually means or it's origin. apparently some here don't either. sad.
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It seems that the attention seekers might be whomever generated the current amplified “news” article for clicks, pulled from an old 2021 pdf that doesn’t appear to be news.

The pdf is actually pretty tame and acknowledges the historical origin vs the “hurr-hurr, I said ‘cock’ ” blather that many folks would not want their daughter or wife to be part of.

While the word “cockpit” dates back to the 1900s, it has been and may be used in a derogatory way to exclude women in the piloting profession.​
​
Many women have heard a variation of “It is called a cockpit for a reason” by a male pilot, suggesting that women do not belong in the piloting profession. The intent behind the use of the word is important.​
​
Note: While airplane manufactures, company- specific publications, and manuals may contain the word “cockpit,” the trend in the aviation industry is to replace it with “flight deck.” Acronyms, such as CVR and CASS, appropriately reference the word “cockpit.”​
​
When addressing groups of people, whether through oral or written communications, please consider using “flight deck” to create a more inclusive environment.”​

 
Wikipedia:
The word cockpit seems to have been used as a nautical term in the 17th century, without reference to cock fighting. It referred to an area in the rear of a ship where the cockswain's station was located, the cockswain being the pilot of a smaller "boat" that could be dispatched from the ship to board another ship or to bring people ashore. The word "cockswain" in turn derives from the old English terms for "boat-servant" (coque is the French word for "shell"; and swain was old English for boy or servant).[2] The midshipmen and master's mates were later berthed in the cockpit, and it served as the action station for the ship's surgeon and his mates during battle. Thus by the 18th century, "cockpit" had come to designate an area in the rear lower deck of a warship where the wounded were taken. The same term later came to designate the place from which a sailing vessel is steered, because it is also located in the rear, and is often in a well or "pit".

More details here:
en.wikipedia.org

Cockpit - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
While I agree that language evolves, the fact that a few idiots use words in a derogatory way and some targets feel offended or diminished isn't necessarily a good reason to force evolution (which, by the way, can't really be forced). Maybe I'm an outlier (and I probably am), but if some idiot guy used the phrase "it's called a cockpit for a reason", I would, first, laugh him off as the jerk he is and, second, be even more determined to proceed to be a pilot (if I weren't one already). I've been distressed by what I perceive as the weakness of some women, but then again, I don't think I was raised the way most women, apparently, are--to blame themselves for men's idiocy when it comes to dealing with the opposite sex. Despite being in a male-dominated profession and enjoying male-dominated entertainments (flying, shooting, riding motorcycles), I've run into very little sexism despite the fact that when I started my profession, there were very, very few women in it--I'm that old. I've never been able to make up my mind whether it's because it's a lot less prevalent than so-called feminists claim or because I look like I could and would deck any jerk who'd try to pull something like that.
 
I hereby declare that the word "no", and any word that could be construed or used in place of "no", and any word that is used in any way so as to mean, suggest, or imply a negative answer, is extremely offensive to me.

I further declare that every one of you must forfeit all your bank accounts to me and allow me unfettered access to your airplanes.
 
judypilot said:
While I agree that language evolves, the fact that a few idiots use words in a derogatory way and some targets feel offended or diminished isn't necessarily a good reason to force evolution (which, by the way, can't really be forced). Maybe I'm an outlier (and I probably am), but if some idiot guy used the phrase "it's called a cockpit for a reason", I would, first, laugh him off as the jerk he is and, second, be even more determined to proceed to be a pilot (if I weren't one already). I've been distressed by what I perceive as the weakness of some women, but then again, I don't think I was raised the way most women, apparently, are--to blame themselves for men's idiocy when it comes to dealing with the opposite sex. Despite being in a male-dominated profession and enjoying male-dominated entertainments (flying, shooting, riding motorcycles), I've run into very little sexism despite the fact that when I started my profession, there were very, very few women in it--I'm that old. I've never been able to make up my mind whether it's because it's a lot less prevalent than so-called feminists claim or because I look like I could and would deck any jerk who'd try to pull something like that.
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spoken like a true rock star
 
murphey said:
Wikipedia:
The word cockpit seems to have been used as a nautical term in the 17th century, without reference to cock fighting. It referred to an area in the rear of a ship where the cockswain's station was located, the cockswain being the pilot of a smaller "boat" that could be dispatched from the ship to board another ship or to bring people ashore. The word "cockswain" in turn derives from the old English terms for "boat-servant" (coque is the French word for "shell"; and swain was old English for boy or servant).[2] The midshipmen and master's mates were later berthed in the cockpit, and it served as the action station for the ship's surgeon and his mates during battle. Thus by the 18th century, "cockpit" had come to designate an area in the rear lower deck of a warship where the wounded were taken. The same term later came to designate the place from which a sailing vessel is steered, because it is also located in the rear, and is often in a well or "pit".

More details here:
en.wikipedia.org

Cockpit - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...
I believe that Wikipedia contains a bunch of etymological bovine excrement. The OED etymology gives no such support for such a statement (home to the cockswain). Its early use seems entirely analogous to a hole. Further, the cock in cockswain does not etymologically stem from the French coque. Nautically, the original cockpit wasn't where the helmsman was located. It only because that a century or so later.

Oddly, "manhole" is a near synonym nautically (and both cockpit and manhole in slang refer to vagina, though this is 20th-century vulgarity).

1719080071158.png
 
Zeldman said:
The word ''tires'' offends me.

I demand everyone call them ''those little roundy things that should be down for take off and landing...''

:frown2:
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I find your term offensive as it's not inclusive of amphibious planes...
 
Reminds me of when Margy was teaching and they banned the use of red pen for grading papers because "It makes the papers look like they are bleeding."
 
falconkidding said:
This is from years ago. Also its not all bad ive heard the cockpit joke way to many times im fine with phasing it out. Language evolves standards change its why retard or gay as an insult fell out of favor if i can find a better way to do something I'll adapt.

Flightdeck accomplishes the same thing and less open to the hurdur cockpit jokes i have to hear so whats the downside?

I think institutions and people are smart enough to take the good and bad and adapt.

If i can do the same thing more precisely and with increased politeness then sign me up. Doesnt mean im going to torture language but if saying “hey everybody from the flightdeck it's captain falcon welcome aboard..." Works just as well as "hey guys from the cockpit..."

Outside of some terminally online anti woke looking to be offended theres no downside to using more neutral language where it fits just as well and is more polite.

Edit gotta love the bottom sceen text “pilots used to worry about safety now worry about the word cockpit" what a load of asinine crap. What kind of fakenews tabloid crap is that. Nothing but contempt for whoever put that in there. I guarantee not one alpa member has sacrificed one iotta of safety for this.
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Very well said. If more Americans had this kind of attitude, it would be a much better country.
 
falconkidding said:
This is from years ago.
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Thanks for pointing that out. Seems that was from a guide published by the ALPA in 2021. I may try to vet these items a bit more (emphasis on the word "try" :)).

liveandletsfly.com

Union Tells Pilots To Stop Using The Word "Cockpit" And Other "Negative" Terms - Live and Let's Fly

Is the admonition to stop using "offensive" words like cockpit, manpower, or guys simply wokery run amok or a valid attempt at inclusion?
liveandletsfly.com liveandletsfly.com

ateamer said:
On one hand, changing the terminology is stupid. On the other hand, why get upset about it? Does it somehow make your life tangibly worse?
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Well, it's about where it comes from and where it's heading. These are folks who don't believe in free speech and would love to micro-manage many aspects of your personal life. They don't love freedom, and would love to see the 1st amendment repealed.
 
Crew station has been used in the military. I have participated in several crew station working groups (CSWG).
 
SkyChaser said:
I hereby declare that the word "no", and any word that could be construed or used in place of "no", and any word that is used in any way so as to mean, suggest, or imply a negative answer, is extremely offensive to me.

I further declare that every one of you must forfeit all your bank accounts to me and allow me unfettered access to your airplanes.
Click to expand...
speechless-nathan-fillion-36uruykqsmigyiba.gif
 
AviationObserver said:
These are folks who don't believe in free speech and would love to micro-manage many aspects of your personal life. They don't love freedom, and would love to see the 1st amendment repealed.
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I’m confused.

How does the 1st amendment apply to an internal ALPA memo politely asking its own members to not make dick jokes while on the job in mixed company?

And yes, that’s exactly what the cockpit section is calling out.

Or are you looking for the government to restrict free speech of private citizens … err, never mind.
 
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ElPaso Pilot said:
I’m confused.

How does the 1st amendment apply to an internal ALPA memo politely asking its own members to not make dick jokes while on the job in mixed company?

And yes, that’s exactly what the cockpit section is calling out.

Or are you looking for the government to restrict free speech of private citizens … err, never mind.
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He sounds like the legacy airline captain I met recently (he’s still working for a couple more years) who said if he’s paired with a younger female FO or one with a Latino name, he calls off the trip because he could be fired for what he says. Some of these dudes just can’t be adults or apply the golden rule.
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
How does the 1st amendment apply to an internal ALPA memo politely asking its own members to not make dick jokes while on the job in mixed company?
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It doesn't, and that's not the point. I'm talking 'bout the bigger picture -- the same folks driving this are the ones who'd like to eliminate free speech, etc.
 
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