These folks need to be stopped.

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You folks realize I hope that the idea is people can choose what they want pronouns they be called.

Some might say woke etc when pronouns are included in corporate email signature. That’s missing the point that you choose what you want and most people keep with the traditional pronouns. I have only ever seen one person using a very confusing (Them/they) pronoun. And I am still confused as to how exactly to place said person as their name is female but they dress as male. Doesn’t matter, as long as they get to choose. And if they want me to refer to them as such in conversations I they are not in? Why would I not honour that wish as best I can? It’s minor effort.

Getting to choose is the point isn’t it that OP posted about? Freedom of thoughts and speech.
 
As a Christian it is my purpose to never offend anyone (I'm not near perfect at this). So if you have a belief that I must address you using your chosen words I'll try to abide by that as long as you respect my belief in forgiveness. This means that if I do offend you then you are obligated to forgive it ...
 
The problem is that there is a large and growing population of industry "professionals" who refuse to use professionalism. There is obvious lack of respect toward women from pilots in old movies (inappropriate comments to stewardesses, as they were then called). I'm not saying that cockpit is a vulgar term, but to say that inappropriateness is somehow a "new" issue is absurd. I don't currently work in the airline industry full time, but even in my line of work, the way I hear other guys talk about and even TO their wives and girlfriends is appalling.

Vulgarity and profanity are common across the board now and are socially acceptable to many people. Things that would have gotten you tarred and feathered when I was a kid (not all that long ago!) are now so common, that I can hardly have a conversation without hearing them. It's no wonder then that people readily associate non-vulgar words (like cockpit) as having vulgar meanings. As others above have mentioned, the ALPA memo should have just said: "It has come to our attention that immature phallic jokes are being made regarding the flight deck. In the interest of professionalism, please refrain from this type of inappropriate humor." Unfortunately, I can see this only goading those pilots to make MORE jokes of the same nature because "those people just need to get some thicker skin" (which also may be true) rather than accepting the idea that professionalism should dictate the form and style of communication.

With common decency on the way out, or some would even argue already gone, is it any wonder that we can garner no respect anymore? And I'm not talking just about pilots, but look around, it's EVERYWHERE. Political figures (on both sides of the aisle) swear on TV and it's somehow OK? TV and movies promulgate vulgarity and profanity in every sense of the words. So then, when someone asks for respect, it's labeled as "woke." (The pronoun thing is another discussion for another time.) I am fortunate in that, often when people find out that I am a pastor, they curb their speech to a degree, but it's so prolific that they still seldom make it 3 sentences without slipping up.

It is my sincere belief that, while freedom of religion is incredibly important, there is a strong correlation between traditional morals, which were based in large part on the Bible, and public respect in discourse. I'm not making this into a religious post, but consider this verse from the Bible: "Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers." - Ephesians 4:29
Imagine if people evaluated what they said by that one simple verse. Nothing corrupt, profane, or vulgar, but only that which edified (built up or encouraged) other people, in order to be a blessing to anyone who heard it. Now, am I saying that Christians get this right all the time? Nope. If I'm being honest, I say unkind things, my words can be hurtful at times, but if I throw the Bible and all of its morality out the window, as many in our society have done, should it be any surprise that our respectful communication follows suit?

TL;DR Speak professionally and kindly.
 
Words should be allowed to mean what they mean. Words should be used in their proper use. Taking offense at the proper use of 'cockpit' is as ridiculous as taking offense at 'no' or 'tire.' Should the general population take offense at dog trainers or breeders when they use the term 'b***h' in its proper context? No. Nor should they be allowed to demand such a change within those communities.

But the last time I expressed this opinion I was told that the USMC should be allowed to honor whomever they chose...

P.S. I resent the automatic censoring of the term for a female dog. If words are censored regardless of their context, then they are denied their proper, polite use, thus condemning them forevermore to their crass use. The term I used and the way I used it is no more offensive than the term 'Mare.'
 
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This means that if I do offend you then you are obligated to forgive it ...
I want to make sure I understand your post and statements, because this last sentence seems to imply that A) YOUR religion imposes an expectation on MY behavior and B) that results in my obligation to forgive you giving you license to offend. Are those what was meant?
 
I want to make sure I understand your post and statements, because this last sentence seems to imply that A) YOUR religion imposes an expectation on MY behavior and B) that results in my obligation to forgive you giving you license to offend. Are those what was meant?

compare and contrast that with your (not specifically you, but the generic your) expectation that people use the "correct" terms du jour when referring to you.
 
Carrying this whole notion to it's logical conclusion... how long before books like "Moby Dick" and "Little Women" get banned or rewritten or re-titled...
 
It is my sincere belief that, while freedom of religion is incredibly important, there is a strong correlation between traditional morals, which were based in large part on the Bible, and public respect in discourse.

Basic “traditional morals” predate the Bible.

Many my friends are atheists or agnostics, and they seem to have personal moral codes that equal or exceed many Christian’s. And their “public respect in discourse”, specifically, does not seem to correlate with their lack of belief in any particular deity or holy book.
 
Basic “traditional morals” predate the Bible.

Many my friends are atheists or agnostics, and they seem to have personal moral codes that equal or exceed many Christian’s. And their “public respect in discourse”, specifically, does not seem to correlate with their lack of belief in any particular deity or holy book.

I'm pretty sure those friends grew up well over a thousand years after the writing of the New Testament in societies shaped by those documents.
 
I never said the sky was falling. Please don’t put words into my mouth.

I have observed these policies occasionally complicating crew communication. Anything that interferes with the Captains ability to effectively communicate is contrary to safety.

Whether or not DEI policy will be a significant contributor to an event is speculative. Saying it has no impact at all is naive.

I’ll also remind you that the crew is more than just the pilots and the interactions with direct impact on safe operations include gate agents, ramp, maintenance, dispatch etc.

Your sideways insult about maturity behind the door and trying to attribute a “chicken little” spin to my statements are amusing.

"I can't tell you what it was or give any examples but I have definitely seen this causing complications". Convincing.

Thanks for confirming zero documented impact at all in three years.

Maybe I'm wrong though; if this ALPA guidance was even a minor contributory factor to a potential issue then I am sure an ASRS report or similar would have been filed, given how concerned everyone involved is about how these guidelines are impacting safety. Maybe you can share a link to an example from the database, or some other reporting system?
 
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compare and contrast that with your (not specifically you, but the generic your) expectation that people use the "correct" terms du jour when referring to you.
I completely agree: when visiting my doctor’s office, I was getting called by my first name (which is not what I go by), so they updated my records to show my nickname. Helpful. But being a doc myself and from a different generation (plus a military culture), I’ve always addressed patients or others I don’t know as personal friend by “Mr”, “Ms”, (Dr, Colonel, whatever); being called even by my nickname by someone I don’t even know just feels odd. I shared that on a survey and noted they have a field for preferred pronoun but not preferred salutation. Seems to me both should be respected.

My specific observation here, though, is that there’s the appearance a religious argument is being used to rationalize “I can do what I want but you have to follow my rules”.

The apparent intolerance here for changes to how people prefer to be addressed has its own silliness: are we saying someone named Richard, who prefers to be called Rich or Rick, has to just accept that I choose to call them Dick?

But citing a 3-year-old article on “wokespy” (which I didn’t know existed but should have) feels like looking for reasons to be outraged. No, correct that: it’s trolling.
 
You folks realize I hope that the idea is people can choose what they want pronouns they be called.
Not really. Well I guess they can choose what they want. Doesn't mean they are going to get it. My use of pronouns is when referring to someone in the 3rd person. If I am referring to someone in the 3rd person, I am not addressing them, and they have ZERO input on my choice of words. I can call that person whateverthe****Iwant in that case. I use the phenotype pronouns. If you look/sound like a male you're getting the him/his/he treatment. Same goes for female and her/she. You want to be referred to by something else? Make an effort to look/act/sound like it. But I'm not going to try and figure out the 25 or 72 or 100 or whatever the current "approved" number of genders and associated pronouns are. You insist and get wounds up. I'm just combining all three into one. she+he+it = ****.

By the same standard, people can refer to me by whatever the hell pronoun they want.
 
You folks realize I hope that the idea is people can choose what they want pronouns they be called.
You are a doubleplusgood newspeaker. :stirpot:
Getting to choose is the point isn’t it that OP posted about? Freedom of thoughts and speech.
No, it is the exact opposite.

Effective communication of complex and controversial ideas and concepts requires clear, consistent, and well-defined language. The ongoing attempts to change definitions of well-defined words is a technique used to obfuscate intelligent debate, and is often applied with the intent of tamping down competing ideas by replacing technical terms with emotion-laden speech. This conveniently allows the censoror to force the opposing argument to be banned in practice.

For example, electrical connectors are clearly defined as "male" and "female". These terms have been in used for over a century, and are embedded in the language, training, experience, and documentation of our entire global electrical grid. Similarly, wires are color-coded black, white, red, green, yellow, blue, etc. Each color has specific meaning, and again, these meanings have been consistent and well-defined for many decades. Control systems are also well-defined with "master", "slave", and "peer" devices being the standard usage since control schemes were first created.

There is a move to change these basic definitions - a move that almost certainly would result in misoperation and failure of major infrastructure systems, and likely many injuries and deaths. I simply cannot conceive of a more arrogant, unsafe, and self-centered concept than to decide that we must avoid calling the white wire "white" and the black wire "black", just because some political fool might be able to generate offense among a few people who sit on their couch at home watching propaganda disguised as "news". When we have a line crew working in a substation on a 38,000 Volt feeder, it is absolutely idiotic to do anything that reduces the clarity of communications. Keep in mind that on these crews, we often have people nearing retirement working alongside people straight out of school. The "old hands" who understand the system should not and will not change their terminology, as there is no good reason to do so, and trying to force such a change will absolutely create confusion on the part of everyone involved. When life safety is at hand, I don't care one little bit whether someone outside the industry is "comfortable" with the terminology; their apparent need to not be offended can never be allowed to take priority over clear communications.

So no, allowing someone to force a re-definition of terms is not about "freedom of thought and speech". It is about trying to ban anything that someone can conveniently define as "offensive" rather than taking the time to learn the subject and debate ideas intelligently and openly. As a side effect, it creates immense confusion and difficulty for anyone trying to communicate in clear, unambiguous terms.


Or perhaps I should use the approved language and simply say:

Long sentences are bad, and many words are offensive.
 
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Those who are constantly changing the newspeak dictionary simply want the power over others that comes from (constantly) correcting them. Those corrected are wrong; ergo those correcting are right, and inherently (perceived, at least) superior.

In response, may I suggest:
Rule 5: Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It's hard to counterattack ridicule, and it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage.
- Saul Alinsky, Rules for Radicals

I believe this was employed rather effectively in another context over that past couple of days.

“We don’t like that — I wanna be clear. We don’t use the term ‘illegal.’ Undocumented individual,” [MSNBC's] Sanders-Townsend chimed in.

“That’s sweet. They’re illegal aliens,” [Heritage Foundation President Dr. Kevin] Roberts said.
Screenshot_20240624_103730_Chrome.jpg

 
I want to make sure I understand your post and statements, because this last sentence seems to imply that A) YOUR religion imposes an expectation on MY behavior and B) that results in my obligation to forgive you giving you license to offend. Are those what was meant?

Please don't make the error of confusing Christianity with religion (another topic that can't be disscussed here). Do understand that religion is simply a collection of your beliefs & practices (though atheist may not desire to call their beliefs & practices a religion). If you have asked me to abide by your beliefs and practices in dealing with you, should I not expect that you would rightly abide by my beliefs & practices when dealing with me? Or is it a one-way street?
 
"I can't tell you what it was or give any examples but I have definitely seen this causing complications". Convincing.

Thanks for confirming zero documented impact at all in three years.

Maybe I'm wrong though; if this ALPA guidance was even a minor contributory factor to a potential issue then I am sure an ASRS report or similar would have been filed, given how concerned everyone involved is about how these guidelines are impacting safety. Maybe you can share a link to an example from the database, or some other reporting system?
Putting quotes around your words and pretending I said them is disrespectful and rude.

I will not give details related to events from work on a publicly open social media platform. If you’re not able to understand why that’s the case you are more naive than I initially thought.

You assert I need to have data to believe what I’ve seen and experienced. That’s asinine. You might as well just skip the pleasantries and tell me I am lying.

It’s clear to me you will not be reasonable. Guess I’ll move on along.

Good day.
 
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