The wife wants a new plane

[JesseD]

Yes. My wife and my three boys (plus me). This is the situation I've been in since I got my cert. I fly a 182 right now and love the plane...in fact, it's all I really need right now...except for that extra pesky seat. It's affordable and carries a load of stuff...except for my whole family. It's a frustrating predicament to be in because as has been discussed, it's virtually impossible to rent for the situations where we all want to go somewhere. As it is, my flying has become somewhat niche because we can't really use it a great deal for quick family trips and the like because we always have to leave someone behind. My wife, while not "into" aviation, loves going places, and we would use aviation a lot more if I had access to 5 or 6 seats. Right now we do couple trips with friends or partial family trips...but it's certainly not ideal...and the travel aspect is what she digs about GA.

The costs of running out and buying a 6 seat airplane by myself are too severe, so co-ownership is my only real option, and it has proven quite difficult to find the two additional people that I would want to own with. Candidates come and go, and sometimes aren't as interested as they initially appear to be (or, as happened recently, find a really good deal on an old Debonair and pull the trigger solo).

I really wish that I only needed a 182. I would own one right now (I'm in a club, currently, but would love to own). As it stands, though, with my boys beginning to become teenagers and only getting bigger, I either need a big payload 6 seater, or I have to wait to buy something after at least one of my kids is off to college. I like the first option better, but it's proving to be very frustrating to try to make it happen.

I've snipped a lot here, but I'm just saying a couple of things.

1) Don't feel too bad, I'm stuck with the six seater too (wife, 2 kids, 2 dogs) and have pretty much decided on a Six or fixed 'Toga (depending on what's available at the time). Heck, if you were closer I'd probably be looking at the situation with you

2) Get your IFR. Every pilot I know says the insurance thing first. The real trick is what my CFI told me: IR requires more precision. You will, if you apply yourself to it diligently, make yourself a much safer (and insurable) pilot. My personal point on this is my dad. Always seems to be non-VFR when he wants to fly...

 

[kyleb]

$50K will buy a lot of Bonanza these days and get you real speed. The maintenance will be higher though, as you said. Still...a decent V-tail would be seriously worth considering.

Seriously, point me at a "Good" Bo for <$50k. I'm not trying to be difficult, but whenever I start trolling Controller, ASO, TAP looking for a "good, cheap" Bonanza, I seem to find airplanes which need big help on one front or another. Either the paint, panel, interior, or engine needs a near-term infusion of cash...

 

[flyersfan31]

100-300mi is not so far as to make a big diff between a 175kt a/c and a 130kt a/c.

Older Bo's need old Bo parts. FInd 'em at Wentworth or pay Beech through the nose when they decide to get around to making them.

An old 172 or 182 will fly off grass just as well as off pavement, plus parts are a dime a dozen and every A&P on the planet has worked on them.

Is 50K your acquisition budget, separate from your operating budget? Or did you say, gee, I can spend $5k on a plane. Then I guess I put gas in it...

No matter how nice the plane, you are always 5mins from a crankshaft a/d or something costing you $7k, thank you very much. Make sure you can handle a yearly $7k hit in a worst-case scenario. Overkill? Mayhaps. However, better to be in the air flying a less-fancy plane that you can afford to fix, than on the ground looking at a fancy plane that you can't.

 

[Challenged]

100-300mi is not so far as to make a big diff between a 175kt a/c and a 130kt a/c.

Older Bo's need old Bo parts. FInd 'em at Wentworth or pay Beech through the nose when they decide to get around to making them.

An old 172 or 182 will fly off grass just as well as off pavement, plus parts are a dime a dozen and every A&P on the planet has worked on them.

Is 50K your acquisition budget, separate from your operating budget? Or did you say, gee, I can spend $5k on a plane. Then I guess I put gas in it...

No matter how nice the plane, you are always 5mins from a crankshaft a/d or something costing you $7k, thank you very much. Make sure you can handle a yearly $7k hit in a worst-case scenario. Overkill? Mayhaps. However, better to be in the air flying a less-fancy plane that you can afford to fix, than on the ground looking at a fancy plane that you can't.

That's why I'm thinking the fixed gear Cardinal is such a good fit for me. With gas prices the way they are, and as short as most of my flights are, it just doesn't seem like it would pay to get a plane that's going to use 14 or 15 gph even with the extra speed it's going to get me.

 

[PilotAlan]

No matter how nice the plane, you are always 5mins from a crankshaft a/d or something costing you $7k, thank you very much. Make sure you can handle a yearly $7k hit in a worst-case scenario. Overkill? Mayhaps. However, better to be in the air flying a less-fancy plane that you can afford to fix, than on the ground looking at a fancy plane that you can't.

The best piece of advice I got when I was looking to buy a plane was:

Figure out how much you can afford and reduce that by 25%
That keeps you from being stretched, and allows you to deal with the unexpected expenses, and the inevitable "first annual" costs that will come from a new A&P inspecting it with fresh eyes, getting the plane the way *you* want it, etc.

As a result, I bought a Cherokee 180 instead of a Mooney, and had the spare money to replace two alternators, troubleshoot an oil temp problem, install a new radio and audio panel, etc etc, without sweat.

The worst thing in the world is to fear your airplane.
Because I downgraded the purchase, I have the money to overhaul the engine tomorrow. I don't worry about it, I sleep fine, there's pretty much nothing that can happen that will overcome our reserves (anything that totals the plane will be covered by insurance).
Whatever it takes, don't fear your plane.

 

[wabower]

Nobody ever said he was real smart . . .

Why can't you simply slow down the 182 for that 80% of the time and get the fuel burn of the 172?

 

[Everskyward]

In reading these posts it occurs to me that when talking about buying an airplane that is appropriate for 80% of your missions it depends on what you want out of the other 20%. If you need capacity, as in you have a family of 5 or 6, I think it might be a better idea to get the bigger airplane. As others have pointed out, bigger airplanes are harder to rent. If it's just speed or range that's lacking it might be better to suck it up and resign yourself to going slower or making a fuel stop on those 20% flights. If you are the type that thinks about speed a lot, no airplane will be fast enough for you after a while.

 

[Tom-D]

"good, cheap, Bonanza"

Pick 2 of the 3.

 

[Tom-D]

In reading these posts it occurs to me that when talking about buying an airplane that is appropriate for 80% of your missions

100 % of my missions are the same. KISS makes it easy.

fly, go some place, have fun.

 

[Lance F]

BTW, Challenged, have you asked your insurance broker about your generous offer to let your friends use your 152 for their initial training??? I would be very surprised if this didn't add a considerable premium increase. Not to mention your increased personal liability above whatever your policy covers.

As for what you should buy to upgrade, I stay out of the discussion until the word "Mooney" comes up.

 

[Challenged]

I did call my insurer with the question of adding my friends on my policy. Quite surprisingly, it wasn't much of a price difference, but he did ask if I was renting to them or if they'd just be using it. I'm not certain if there was a price difference between the two scenarios, however. He did push for them to purchase their own renter's insurance, and I did pass that information along to my friends as well.

I also recently worked up a quote on a Cardinal and the price increase for that was very small as well..which I was also pleasantly surprised about.

 

[DebbieDriver]

Hi Challenged,

Here's my long-winded 2 cents on the whole "which airplane to buy" thing.

I'm a first-time owner that bought a Beechcraft Debonair (poor man's Bonanza) about a year ago. I took the advice of several pilots that said "get your 2nd airplane first". I was looking at Cardinals originally (Fixed Gear) but I didn't fit (sat too tall). The plan is to use it for XC and get my Instrument rating.

I had only 150 hours, no complex, no HP, no Inst. rating. I found a bargain-basement '62 Debibair that needed some TLC. Got a thorough pre-buy and a 3 page list of squawks. Paid $36K for the plane and have thrown another $15K at it in the last year. Insurance ($36K hull, 1Mil/100K liability) was "only" $1900 the first year and $1600 this year. I flew her 70 hours last year.

I fly 300 to 500 NM trips, so the retract and extra speed are very much appreciated by my wife. She liked the way the Beechcraft feels in the air better than the Cardinals. I attribute that to the higher wing loading which makes it a bit more stable in chop and turbulence. And yes, as someone else here noted: the best plane for you is the one your wife likes:wink2:

For 100 to 300 mile trips, the Cardinal could work out perfectly. I loved the wide doors and easy access to the cockpit. The FG are fairly economical, and every/any A&P can work on those Lycoming engines. If you are serious about the Cardinal, spend $50 bucks and join CFO (Cardinal Flyers Online). That was a great resource for my investigations. If you are leaning towards the F33, then join ABS (American Bonanza Society) and check out the BeechTalk website for great info. I am a member of both.

Don't be afraid of the Bo, they are great flying airplanes. Don't discount the Cardinal, they have a lot to offer, too. See which one will best suit your needs, and which one your wife prefers (flying alone ain't always fun).

Best of luck in your search

 

[Fearless Tower]

I'm a first-time owner that bought a Beechcraft Debonair (poor man's Bonanza) about a year ago.

Negative - that there is a Bonanza with a PROPER tail!

 

[Byrdflyr]

I trained in C-152, 172s, and bought a Mooney M20C when I had 85 hours.
The transition was not difficult at all. I had to log 25 hours of dual for insurance purposes, which was not difficult for me because the seller/owner was a CFI did about 10 hours of transition training and another friend is a CFI and did the balance on fishing trips, etc. You'll find plenty of time-building CFIs that wouldn't mind riding along in a Mooney just for fun.

Technique-wise, flying the "complex" C,E,F,J model Mooney is 5% more complex than flying a 172. Pull up the gear after you take off, and put it down before you land. When you stop climbing, close the cowl flaps, and change RPM from climb to cruise (usually, 25 to 24 inches).

Landing is not difficult. That's a myth. Pay some attention to your approach speeds. Mooney's don't slow down like a 172 with 40 degrees of flaps (and they don't like to be slipped) but it really isn't hard to ace landings over and over.

My wife and I travel together (600 nm non-stop sometimes), and I've taken 4 people on 1-2 hour trips. It would be great to have more leg room for the occasional back-seat pax, but 95% of the time I'm solo or dual.

Useful load is 975, and no-wind speeds are 150 mph (130 kts), in cruise setting, not full bore. Some say always fly Mooney's to the firewall. It is logical, and I've measured the costs per mile or mpg, and they're right, but for some reason (below 5k feet), I tend to pull the power back.

Get something you can use for your primary mission, is my point, and don't be afraid to step up sooner than later.

Maintenance costs (including annual) aren't bad (about 1,500 to 3,000 per year), and insurance with $1m of liability coverage is about $1,200 per year).

I don't think you can find a better, tougher, more capable airplane for the money than a Mooney C-F model, and you can find them with very modern avionics now for sub $70k. Those are very safe, get-there machines. When you're flying along listening to center controllers, you'll notice how many times they're talking to a Mooney, Bonanza, and Cirrus. You don't hear as many calls to Cessna or Piper that are really going places.

Have fun.