The Trials of a Woman Pilot

Prejudice against women is strong in many parts of the Middle East. In Saudi Arabia, they have just been allowed to drive cars, why would you be surprised about piloting airplanes?
 
I don't know anything about her beyond what I've read. But, its hard to believe she'd just up and flee from her homeland, and hide from the notoriety her career choices had brought her unless there was at least some truth to it. I don't care how bada$$ you are, when the Taliban is threatening to do to you what they do to people whom they disagree with, you're well within reason to try and evade them.

As an accused "over-privileged white male American baby-boomer" all I can say is that there is a lot of F'd up stuff in the world. And, I wish Ms. Rahmani all the best!
 
Old news. We nixed the A-29 and other Afghan training programs because they all took off to the wild blue yonder of the CONUS as soon as they hit terra firma in Georgia LOL. Can't say I blame them. The whole thing was a quagmire anyways.

I have zero quarrel with these females seeking asylum. There's a difference between standing your ground and being a martyr. The native military is not in a position to safeguard these people in garrison. As such, it's not anywhere near the equivalent as what we face when forward deployed. I don't worry about my neighbor picking me out in civilian clothes because he disagrees with either my military service or my ethnicity within that service. I won't fight in a military whose collective is neither willing nor capable of holding a line. Fool's errand.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Old news. We nixed the A-29 and other Afghan training programs because they all took off to the wild blue yonder of the CONUS as soon as they hit terra firma in Georgia LOL. Can't say I blame them. The whole thing was a quagmire anyways.

I have zero quarrel with these females seeking asylum. There's a difference between standing your ground and being a martyr. The native military is not in a position to safeguard these people in garrison. As such, it's not anywhere near the equivalent as what we face when forward deployed. I don't worry about my neighbor picking me out in civilian clothes because he disagrees with either my military service or my ethnicity within that service. I won't fight in a military whose collective is neither willing nor capable of holding a line. Fool's errand.
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spoken like a soldier not a politician
 
But there are plenty of those who are willing to hold the line. Even those of us who aren’t even from there. Everyone in the Afghan military gets death threats. As female Afghan General Muhammadzai said “We cannot and should not wait until these threats, risks and problems disappear. We have to fight to overcome them, to build a better country.” This is what a real role model for Afghan women looks like.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latifa_Nabizada

I remember one time flying some Afghan Commandos to their graduation ceremony at Bagram. One of their SEAL trainer / advisors was in the back and we chit chatted a bit about the role of the commandos. He stressed what a serious risk they (commando) were taking by volunteering for such a dangerous endeavor and that they were essentially what will keep the country from tumbling into chaos and Taliban rule. That’s true courage. That’s not giving up on your country. These guys are the ones who are at greatest risk. Not pilots.

https://thediplomat.com/2016/08/afghan-commandos-afghanistans-first-last-and-best-line-of-defense/
 
Several years ago there was a wonderful show on PBS called "Flying Down to Kabul". In it, Danish artist and private pilot Simone Kærn heard of Farial, a teenage Afghani girl who dreamed of learning to fly. So Kærn flew her Piper Colt from Copenhagen to Kabul to meet the girl and introduce her to flying. Spoiler alert: Kærn made it to Kabul without being shot down; she met Farial, who loved her informal flying lessons in the Colt, but cultural and family pressures eventually forced her to give up her aspiration to become a pilot.

I haven't been able to find the full production online, but here is a trailer:

 
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Velocity173 said:
But there are plenty of those who are willing to hold the line. Even those of us who aren’t even from there. Everyone in the Afghan military gets death threats. As female Afghan General Muhammadzai said “We cannot and should not wait until these threats, risks and problems disappear. We have to fight to overcome them, to build a better country.” This is what a real role model for Afghan women looks like.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latifa_Nabizada

I remember one time flying some Afghan Commandos to their graduation ceremony at Bagram. One of their SEAL trainer / advisors was in the back and we chit chatted a bit about the role of the commandos. He stressed what a serious risk they (commando) were taking by volunteering for such a dangerous endeavor and that they were essentially what will keep the country from tumbling into chaos and Taliban rule. That’s true courage. That’s not giving up on your country. These guys are the ones who are at greatest risk. Not pilots.

https://thediplomat.com/2016/08/afghan-commandos-afghanistans-first-last-and-best-line-of-defense/
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Thats all good and great brother. I'm not objecting to the merits or sincerity of your anecdote. But if we're gonna throw anecdotes here's mine: My OTS class leader and floormate was a gratuitous casualty of Afghan green on blue in 2011, along many others in the same incident. Blue "guardian angels" were commonplace in the back of academic classrooms where sitting duck types like us lowly pink fleshy pilots used to "advise" on behest of the State Department. I have buried more friends to green than red. So you will forgive me if I have less than raving reviews for the afghan military, pilots or non pilots.

I'm not interested in debating the merits of individual courage. that's not my point. I just ask people refrain from insinuating cowardice from those of us who merely criticize lack of organization, and thus reject the appeal to needless martrydom. If that wasn't your insinuation, then my sincere apologies for misunderstanding your point.

everybody check six and fly safe. cheers.
 
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hindsight2020 said:
Thats all good and great brother. I'm not objecting to the merits or sincerity of your anecdote. But if we're gonna throw anecdotes here's mine: My OTS class leader and floormate was a gratuitous casualty of Afghan green on blue in 2011, along many others in the same incident. Blue "guardian angels" were commonplace in the back of academic classrooms where sitting duck types like us lowly pink fleshy pilots used to "advise" on behest of the State Department. I have buried more friends to green than red. So you will forgive me if I have less than raving reviews for the afghan military, pilots or non pilots.

They're the unholy abortion of a grafty, irresponsible and cynical attempt at nation building on the part of the US government, and we the pawns have paid for it for the last 20 years. My so called mentors in the bomber relate their "war stories" at the bar (while on leave from their airlines in the early 00s, whether voluntary or by furlough) and "rubbing in our faces" that as senior guys they got to bump us junior guys off the "war effort". Maybe thats why I don't like the airlines lol, I rather dig ditches than swing gear for those boomer a-holes. lol.

Jest aside, if I may be frank, if that's what gets people a DFC (27 ripple count weapooneered de facto jettison release of 500 pounders after 14 hour droning over a dismounted unorganized Company of light infantry more than a mile away in open terrain, and I could offer more egregious examples of gratuitously chasing a Winchester call....), then I'm fine with the relative snoozer that has been my non combat flight instructing so called career. my whole point with that anecdote being: it's not just afghans I am critical of, it's us too, before you make the mistake of generalizing my hatred for that graft as somehow xenophobia against afghans. Of course one is more than welcome to test that theory out right now at NAS Pensacola. I guarantee ya the colloquial responses from those folks will not be as measured as mine.

I'm not interested in debating the merits of individual courage. that's not my point. I just ask people refrain from insinuating cowardice from those of us who merely criticize lack of organization, and thus reject the appeal to needless martrydom. If that wasn't your insinuation, then my sincere apologies for misunderstanding your point.

everybody check six and fly safe. cheers.
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Well no doubt there’s a lack of organization there and I’ve seen the results of green on blue first hand. That doesn’t mean they don’t have a core group of pilots that are passionate about protecting their country. And we’ve had Saudis training here for how long? One episode doesn’t mean it’s a systemic problem. We’ve had far more US servicemen doing blue on blue than foreign pilots shooting our own in America.

Not saying she is a coward either. Im saying this woman has become a media darling when she doesn’t warrant the attention. Meets Michelle Obama and goes flying with the Blues...are you kidding me? She’s done nothing special to deserve that treatment while there are those (commandos) who are dying and are bearing the brunt of war and get no attention. They’re not an attractive female so they don’t get none I guess. And make no mistake, they too experience the same personal threats but yet continue to do far more dangerous and rigorous work than her.

So my point is, there are those who seek to rebuild a better Afghanistan and not give up the cause for “the big PX” in America. Should they just say screw it to their families and friends and say their country is a lost cause?
 
Velocity173 said:
Well no doubt there’s a lack of organization there and I’ve seen the results of green on blue first hand. That doesn’t mean they don’t have a core group of pilots that are passionate about protecting their country. And we’ve had Saudis training here for how long? One episode doesn’t mean it’s a systemic problem. We’ve had far more US servicemen doing blue on blue than foreign pilots shooting our own in America.

Not saying she is a coward either. Im saying this woman has become a media darling when she doesn’t warrant the attention. Meets Michelle Obama and goes flying with the Blues...are you kidding me? She’s done nothing special to deserve that treatment while there are those (commandos) who are dying and are bearing the brunt of war and get no attention. They’re not an attractive female so they don’t get none I guess. And make no mistake, they too experience the same personal threats but yet continue to do far more dangerous and rigorous work than her.

So my point is, there are those who seek to rebuild a better Afghanistan and not give up the cause for “the big PX” in America. Should they just say screw it to their families and friends and say their country is a lost cause?
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Wholeheartedly agree on the media pop star angle, that really does not lend credibility to the at large plight. As to the Afghans, my only position is I've highlighted before, we need to get the hell out of the nation building business. Let them sort it out. The quagmire is tainted from the outset. Alas, economic interests abound, and that would get this thread de-railed, so I'll digress. Cheers!
 
Velocity173 said:
...So my point is, there are those who seek to rebuild a better Afghanistan and not give up the cause for “the big PX” in America. Should they just say screw it to their families and friends and say their country is a lost cause?
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According to the article, her family has left Afghanistan as well:

The day she got her certificate, she called home. The sound of her father’s voice told her something was wrong.

“When can I come home?” she asked him.

Her father, who had supported her through so many years of pain and striving, sounded defeated for the first time. The family was going back to Pakistan. “I can’t live like this anymore,” he said.

“That was the moment I gave up on my career,” Rahmani said. “That was the moment I quit.”​
 
hindsight2020 said:
Wholeheartedly agree on the media pop star angle, that really does not lend credibility to the at large plight. As to the Afghans, my only position is I've highlighted before, we need to get the hell out of the nation building business. Let them sort it out. The quagmire is tainted from the outset. Alas, economic interests abound, and that would get this thread de-railed, so I'll digress. Cheers!
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Oh no doubt. We’ve been there too long and MIC has got a stranglehold on Afghanistan. My whole outlook was, that this was a noble effort over here but these people need to step up to the plate. I met just enough of our Afghan counterparts and civilian volunteers to give me hope...barely.

People like this make me wonder where we can get such intelligent and talented individuals that put their entire future at stake to help complete strangers. Look at the qualifications of the victims and what they sacrificed for that country. Unfortunately had the honor of flying their bodies from Kabul to Bagram.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Badakhshan_massacre
 
I will always remember hearing Karachi center not roger up any call from any female aviator I ever knew or otherwise heard on the UHF advisory freq heading into/out of PAK on the way to AFG. I can't imagine being a local woman trying to make it.
 
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