The oddities this week for Tesla...

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From Reuters:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...lities-in-nine-states-documents-idUSKBN1JI013


BUSINESS NEWS
JUNE 21, 2018 / 6:14 PM / UPDATED 10 HOURS AGO
Tesla to close a dozen solar facilities in nine states - documents

LOS ANGELES/SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Electric car maker Tesla Inc’s move last week to cut 9 percent of its workforce will sharply downsize the residential solar business it bought two years ago in a controversial $2.6 billion deal, according to three internal company documents and seven current and former Tesla solar employees...
 
I think Musk was best at lining up Gov’t subsidies for his ‘green’ businesses. That may of been easier with the last Pres, less so now.

I’m indifferent to Tesla, seems more a house of cards though.
 
sourdough44 said:
I think Musk was best at lining up Gov’t subsidies for his ‘green’ businesses. That may of been easier with the last Pres, less so now.

I’m indifferent to Tesla, seems more a house of cards though.
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lol, Government subsidies are almost completely controlled by Congress. The "green" subsidies that were discretionary largely ran out a few years ago since they were part of TARP and the associated stimulus pattern. The administration can advocate for specific items, but really has very little control over them.

Tim
 
Moral of the story, don’t hire anyone named Tripp. It would be too funny if Marty was related to Linda
 
So we're saying that Tesla the car will end up like Nikola Tesla?
 
I just can’t justify how TSLA is a $337 stock and the company isn’t even profitable yet. Talk about one heck of a valuation...
 
Ryanb said:
I just can’t justify how TSLA is a $337 stock and the company isn’t even profitable yet. Talk about one heck of a valuation...
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What the stock is sellin at ain’t got squat to do with what the company is worth. It’s what you can make people ‘think’ it’s worth Here’s some words and phrases

ENRON
Golden Parachute
SubPrime meltdown of 2008
Con
Gotta get that damn G’vmnt to quit watchin the cookie jar
Bernie
S&P is for sale
etc etc
 
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I’m more interested in his strange “saboteur” commentary that has come up twice now, once at SpaceX and once at Tesla, in his public commentary.

How paranoid is he? Howard Hughes paranoid?
 
tspear said:
lol, Government subsidies are almost completely controlled by Congress. The "green" subsidies that were discretionary largely ran out a few years ago since they were part of TARP and the associated stimulus pattern. The administration can advocate for specific items, but really has very little control over them.

Tim
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Well there is that pesky 2/3 to overide a veto thing. But yeah, Congress has a lot of control.
 
luvflyin said:
Well there is that pesky 2/3 to overide a veto thing. But yeah, Congress has a lot of control.
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Congress largely relinquished control when it became politically imperative to follow the unwritten Hassert rule. This largely ended the ability of Congress to effectively do its job and play groups off each other.

Tim
 
tspear said:
Congress largely relinquished control when it became politically imperative to follow the unwritten Hassert rule. This largely ended the ability of Congress to effectively do its job and play groups off each other.

Tim
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Hassert rule ??????

EDIT: Disregard, I googled it. The unwritten Hastert rule aside, what is the written rule that allows that ‘one’ person to excercise that much control. The Speaker can just say we ain’t voting on ‘anything’ unless I say so? I gotta be missing something.
 
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Forget Congress or the Pres, just look at allowances for ‘green’ subsidies over recent years, down 70%.
 
luvflyin said:
Hassert rule ??????

EDIT: Disregard, I googled it. The unwritten Hastert rule aside, what is the written rule that allows that ‘one’ person to excercise that much control. The Speaker can just say we ain’t voting on ‘anything’ unless I say so? I gotta be missing something.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hastert_Rule

Before the Hassert rule, the Speaker of the House and the Senate majority leader could play both parties against each other. As a result they were significantly stronger and effective.

Tim
 
denverpilot said:
This is just fascinating.

https://jalopnik.com/heres-the-wild-email-exchange-between-teslas-alleged-sa-1827017800
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Wow. I know one engineer who's going to be flipping burgers soon. What a way to ruin a career.

GRG55 said:
From Reuters:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...lities-in-nine-states-documents-idUSKBN1JI013


BUSINESS NEWS
JUNE 21, 2018 / 6:14 PM / UPDATED 10 HOURS AGO
Tesla to close a dozen solar facilities in nine states - documents
Click to expand...

In other words, "Tesla to do exactly what Tesla said Tesla was going to do." That is, to sell solar through their automotive retail locations. This is not news, but proclaiming that Tesla's sky is falling sure does generate a lot of hits, so the BS keeps flying.

denverpilot said:
I’m more interested in his strange “saboteur” commentary that has come up twice now, once at SpaceX and once at Tesla, in his public commentary.

How paranoid is he? Howard Hughes paranoid?
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It's not paranoid if they really are out to get you - And this one was a case of actual sabotage.
 
tspear said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hastert_Rule

Before the Hassert rule, the Speaker of the House and the Senate majority leader could play both parties against each other. As a result they were significantly stronger and effective.

Tim
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Got it. The Speaker may decide not to allow something to be voted on because he is doing the ‘unwritten’ Hassert Rule. Do you know what the ‘written’ rule is though that says the Speaker has absolute authority to not allow something to be voted on, regardless of why he isn’t?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
...In other words, "Tesla to do exactly what Tesla said Tesla was going to do." That is, to sell solar through their automotive retail locations. This is not news, but proclaiming that Tesla's sky is falling sure does generate a lot of hits, so the BS keeps flying.

...
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Tesla has some serious challenges. The purchase of the solar business made no sense whatsoever for a vehicle manufacturer. Now it's a drag on the firm at a time it has other issues it needs to attend to urgently - primarily its abysmal Model 3 vehicle production output performance.

As long as there is a receptive capital market willing to continue to shovel money into Tesla it will survive. The moment that stops, it dies.

9f4984a7-9b8b-46f2-af76-3da34b6dbf5c.jpg
 
flyingcheesehead said:
It's not paranoid if they really are out to get you - And this one was a case of actual sabotage.
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How about the SpaceX one? That wasn’t.

And if they were doing what the guy claims they were doing and he’s got the proof, I’d say they deserve to be “sabotaged” for hiding it.

They won’t pursue the suit. Opens them up to a public record investigation of all procedures the guy ever touched inside their factory.

They aren’t going to let that happen in a public courtroom.
 
luvflyin said:
Got it. The Speaker may decide not to allow something to be voted on because he is doing the ‘unwritten’ Hassert Rule. Do you know what the ‘written’ rule is though that says the Speaker has absolute authority to not allow something to be voted on, regardless of why he isn’t?
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The Speaker has limited direct control. Under the constitution; the Speaker is the senior officer of the House of Representatives. As such, he/she controls the debate through two primary methods. First the Speaker controls nine of the 13 members on the Rules Committee. The Rules Committee is the body which actually determines which bills and amendments come up for vote. The second aspect of the Speakers control is the ability to recognize members who wish to speak to the chamber. The Speaker has the theoretical ability to silence any member by preventing them from addressing the floor. Neither power is written into the Constitution, however both traditions and I think actually written into law; but I am not positive.

Tim
 
If you're not following the Tesla soap opera your missing out!

First they're on there way to making 5k model 3's a week, all is wounderful at Tesla, wait what's that they're building an assembly line in a tent in the parking lot to make it to 5k a week?? Then all the sudden there is sabotage, bum bum baa!! Fires! Threats of violence!! Oh and did I mention Tesla is running out of money and needs to hit the production goals so they can raise capital, will they make it!? Tune in next week to see!!!
 
sourdough44 said:
I think Musk was best at lining up Gov’t subsidies for his ‘green’ businesses. That may of been easier with the last Pres, less so now.
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Prior to last. The largest ($7500) subsidies given to people who purchase EV’s were signed by Bush, not Obama.

No way that Congress under Obama would have ever sent him a bill like that to sign.
 
Marky_24 said:
If you're not following the Tesla soap opera your missing out!

First they're on there way to making 5k model 3's a week, all is wounderful at Tesla, wait what's that they're building an assembly line in a tent in the parking lot to make it to 5k a week?? Then all the sudden there is sabotage, bum bum baa!! Fires! Threats of violence!! Oh and did I mention Tesla is running out of money and needs to hit the production goals so they can raise capital, will they make it!? Tune in next week to see!!!
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Absolutely! There is real drama here. All the makings of a great reality show on TV, complete with made up content.
 
Dav8or said:
Absolutely! There is real drama here. All the makings of a great reality show on TV, complete with made up content.
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That’s pretty much why I posted it. I’m not too interested in the product, but the soap opera is really entertaining.

I think most people knew he’d jumped the shark business-wise when he saved the already fiscally dead solar company with car company money from a car company rapidly becoming desperate for capital.
 
Hi guys, I am a newly minted private pilot (6/12), and new to this forum, but I have been making my living with my own money in the markets for the last 14 years.

So a few points: Yes, Tesla is a soap opera. The company isn't profitable, cannot meet demand, is leveraged to the hilt, and will require a great deal more capEx spending to even begin to both meet demand and capture the margins necessary to justify the current $56Billion market cap valuation. So expect more borrowing, more secondary, tertiary, quarternary, etc.. stock sales and more bluster and showmanship from good ole PT Musk.

Greater or lesser subsidies would probably have had little effect on demand, and wouldn't matter did since Tesla simply can't meet current demand. He regularly misses his own production targets, and not by a small amount.

The thing Elon Barnum has created is a bulletproof cultish brand that rivals the eponymous Tesla himself. If he succeeds or fails he will be a hero to those who want electric cars. Even if in the end, they aren't made by Tesla. Just like Nikola is a hero and victim to people now for (insert conspiracy theory here).

Anyhoo, I was wondering if anyone can point me to the proper thread to ask about plane buying etiquette. How to go about kicking the tires when you aren't even sure what kind of plane you want to buy?

TIA,

Dan D.
 
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DanD said:
Anyhoo, I was wondering if anyone can point me to the proper thread to ask about plane buying etiquette. How to go about kicking the tires when you aren't even sure what kind of plane you want to buy?

TIA,

Dan D.
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Just start a thread.

Tim
 
denverpilot said:
That’s pretty much why I posted it. I’m not too interested in the product, but the soap opera is really entertaining...
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Getting more entertaining by the quarter.

Now that both June and Q2 are over I wonder how the 5000 Model 3s per week target is coming along. Seems the more they build the more money they lose. Maybe Tesla should be hoping for more Model 3 order cancellations? :rolleyes:

And then there is the looming competition to their supposedly unique competitive advantage "charging moat" (as some of the idiot analysts called it), the Supercharger network. These folks are just one company sponsoring the installation of hundreds of non-proprietary high capacity DC charging stations:

https://www.electrifyamerica.com/our-plan

Tesla.png

denverpilot said:
...I think most people knew he’d jumped the shark business-wise when he saved the already fiscally dead solar company with car company money from a car company rapidly becoming desperate for capital.
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Here's some entertaining reading about that "save": ;)
His prominent name must be the only thing keeping him from being charged with securities fraud.

https://www.fastcompany.com/4042208...ous-project-that-became-elon-musks-solar-roof

"...Somehow, over the next few months, teams at SolarCity, Tesla, and 3M (which makes solar films that can be used for solar glass tiles) managed to put together a glass-tile solar roof demo, which Musk unveiled on October 28 at an event at Universal Studios’ back lot in Los Angeles, on an old residential set used in Desperate Housewives. Shortly before sunset, Musk appeared onstage in front of a crowd of several hundred to make his big reveal...

...Some people aware of Steel Pulse’s development at SolarCity were shocked by what Musk revealed. “Where the hell did that come from?” says one source, describing a common sentiment among certain teams at the time. Considering how different it looked from the standing-seam metal roof prototype, many sources concluded the demo was simply not real–it was merely vaporware. (As one jokes, “There’s a reason that they announced the idea on a fake block in a fake neighborhood with fake houses!”)...Still, the company does acknowledge that the demos Musk unveiled at Universal Studios were not functional...

...No matter how the Solar Roof came to be, it seems to have worked: Three weeks after Musk’s presentation, 85% of shareholders approved the Tesla-SolarCity merger."​
 
GRG55 said:
Now that both June and Q2 are over I wonder how the 5000 Model 3s per week target is coming along.
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They’re at 5000 vehicles per week now.

Actually, 7000 vehicles per week, but 5000 of those are Model 3s.
 
No idea what people see in a 3. The more I look at the odd shaped front bumper, the more it puts me off. Even if they fixed that, the tablet sticking out like a sore thumb and no HUD is a deal breaker. Rather buy a nice used S instead.
 
Velocity173 said:
Even if they fixed that, the tablet sticking out like a sore thumb and no HUD is a deal breaker. Rather buy a nice used S instead.
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I have both a 3 and an S. I must say I far FAR prefer the tablet of the Model 3 over the Model S display. I was on my way to upgrade the S but now I’ll wait until they refresh the interior.

I totally agree it looked goofy at first and I couldn’t believe it had neither a driver console nor a HUD, but after having owned it for a while I must say it’s SO much better. Everything you want to do is within easy reach. With the Model S you have to lean forward to interact with the display and I get seatbelt locked often that way. Also the landscape design is much easier to interact with.

The thing that annoys me most about the 3 though is that the cruise control/autosteer lever is on your right hand - part of the gear level. With the Model S it’s on your left hand where it belongs. I know they did this to save money, but no no no. Cruise control belongs on the left.
 
EppyGA said:
Seems like you'll be waiting a while :D
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I am afraid you are right. I have been following this and according to the website it appears the only movement in the company has been in reverse for the last few years. :sigh:
 
deonb said:
I have both a 3 and an S. I must say I far FAR prefer the tablet of the Model 3 over the Model S display. I was on my way to upgrade the S but now I’ll wait until they refresh the interior.

I totally agree it looked goofy at first and I couldn’t believe it had neither a driver console nor a HUD, but after having owned it for a while I must say it’s SO much better. Everything you want to do is within easy reach. With the Model S you have to lean forward to interact with the display and I get seatbelt locked often that way. Also the landscape design is much easier to interact with.

The thing that annoys me most about the 3 though is that the cruise control/autosteer lever is on your right hand - part of the gear level. With the Model S it’s on your left hand where it belongs. I know they did this to save money, but no no no. Cruise control belongs on the left.
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I don’t know, I think these guys nailed the review on it.

They don’t even mention how the tablet sticks out but I don’t think it flows with the interior at all. That’s just me. It’s not that hard to integrate the display into the dash with a smooth look that goes with the interior. It’s like flying a plane with no instruments but an iPad stuck to the panel. But, forget the looks, as they say, it’s just not ergonomic and is really a distraction. I don’t need to spend the majority of my time looking right while driving. When I do look right to adjust something, it needs to be done at a glance / grab. Heck, I don’t even care to use a screen on my Volt to adjust climate when a simple lever is much more user friendly. At any rate, they don’t appear to take to the tablet and I know I’d have the same issues. They brought up the lack of HUD and with this car, it would be a no brainer to have. Just a speedometer alone on the HUD would be an improvement but they could easily incorporate a few other features such as range, NAV, even altitude & temp.

Then you have the ride is stiff, excessive wind noise at highway speeds, awkward rear seats, and no fob. Personally, I wouldn’t care about having my iPhone on me all the time vs using the card. But, for a $59,000 car, I’d expect pax comfort to be a much more of a priority than this. To me, it shows a lack of attention to detail on the part of the designers. Yes, the acceleration and handling sounds like fun but that’s not a whole driving experience and if my passengers legs are up in their chest, it doesn’t make for a good XC trip vehicle.

CR seems to like the exterior styling and besides the front bumper I’d agree. Just the Tesla emblem on the bumper vs the hood would have looked better to me. The “wacky” door handles I don’t think would bother me as much as the reviewers. They seem to be a simple latch that anyone could open with ease.

I get it, it’s a polarizing car because you have die hard fossil fuel drivers and hippy green tree huggers. You’ve got “big oil” putting out bad info and the EV crowd not being exactly forthright either. I look at both sides of it and don’t let a passion for cleaner (not by much) alternatives get in the way of an unbiased opinion. I think it’s overall a beautiful, exciting car but head and shoulders above the competition? I don’t think so.

 
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""I get it, it’s a polarizing car because you have die hard fossil fuel drivers and hippy green tree huggers. You’ve got “big oil” putting out bad info and the EV crowd not being exactly forthright either. I look at both sides of it and don’t let a passion for cleaner (not by much) alternatives get in the way of an unbiased opinion. I think it’s a beautiful, exciting car but head and shoulders above the competition? I don’t think so.""

So since we all are (for the most part) piloting fossil fuel machines hippy green tree huggers is probably not an accurate description. I just traded in a Vette for the Model 3 for reasons not implied. The long term goal of assisted or in the future self driving would not have been in my radar 20 or 50 years ago, I have seen what happens when mobility is lost due to age with parents now gone...... it aint pretty.

So I am investing in the possibility of longer term independence. I get that it may be a flyer .....but I am ok with that. As an aid currently it does a great job with intelligent cruise control (slows to a stop in our California stop and go traffic, then speeds up to freeway speed with no intervention) and for entertainment we get updates to what the car will do today that was different from yesterday.. being retired we are easily amused, but I never had a car that automatically got better through time. That it is quicker than my C5 Corvette and is rock solid on the road is just a great plus. The stiff ride and wind noise have been corrected ( I am in the Vin 16000 ), my back seat folks are much happier than they were in the Vette, and not having to carry keys is really helping my fashionable look.

No more trips to the gas station ... oil changes .. brake changes.. and on an on.. not missing them. (I do pull panels, change oil, tires plugs etc on Cessnas every week so not a snowflake)
 
Electric only cars/trucks/etc. will NEVER be the norm until you can drive 400 miles and charge in 15 minutes with a infrastructure of charging stations.
Hell I would buy one today, unfortunately they aren’t compatible with my driving habits.
 
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