The no license needed airplane.....

P

PaulS

Touchdown! Greaser!
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PaulS
It's finally here, don't need a pilot's license to fly this thing, just jump in and go!! What could possibly go wrong? To be fair you will be monitored with someone to jump in remotely if you f up, but again, what could go wrong??




https://www.liftaircraft.com/aircraft
 
Cool. I'll be able to start asking people who own this, "what route do you fly?"
 
8-15 minute flights at 45mph. Awfully fancy contraption for one flight round the pattern.
 
With that range and speed there’s going to be a lot l of pulling the shoot.
 
If it’s an ultralight, I’d like to know how they plan on getting around 103.1(b)? It sounds more like self operating Uber operation. Ultimately I don’t think it will operate under 103. The FAA is working now on figuring out how to permit these non-traditional flying machines to operate in the national airspace system.
 
Why would you need an amphibious VTOL ultralight anyway? Why not just Land on the dock.
 
Brad Z said:
If it’s an ultralight, I’d like to know how they plan on getting around 103.1(b)? It sounds more like self operating Uber operation. Ultimately I don’t think it will operate under 103. The FAA is working now on figuring out how to permit these non-traditional flying machines to operate in the national airspace system.
Click to expand...

Get around? Seems to match right up, though the weight might need some creativity to justify.

§103.1 Applicability.
This part prescribes rules governing the operation of ultralight vehicles in the United States. For the purposes of this part, an ultralight vehicle is a vehicle that:

(a) Is used or intended to be used for manned operation in the air by a single occupant;
Check...single occupant.
(b) Is used or intended to be used for recreation or sport purposes only;
Check...15 minutes endurance, basically can't be used for anything else.
(c) Does not have any U.S. or foreign airworthiness certificate; and
True.
(d) If unpowered, weighs less than 155 pounds; or
Powered
(e) If powered:
Yes.
(1) Weighs less than 254 pounds empty weight, excluding floats and safety devices which are intended for deployment in a potentially catastrophic situation;
432 lbs. claimed, but...has floats and copious safety devices including airbags and rocket chute. I can buy that they weigh 178 lbs. with some creative grouping.
(2) Has a fuel capacity not exceeding 5 U.S. gallons;
Zero gallons.
(3) Is not capable of more than 55 knots calibrated airspeed at full power in level flight; and
45 MPH claimed.
(4) Has a power-off stall speed which does not exceed 24 knots calibrated airspeed.
Stall speed is zero.
 
If that thing is on short final and I am upwind even with 180 horse engine I will probably stall and crash trying to maintain separation.
 
WannFly said:
If that thing is on short final and I am upwind even with 180 horse engine I will probably stall and crash trying to maintain separation.
Click to expand...
Why would you bring that thing anywhere near an airport? ;)
 
WannFly said:
If that thing is on short final and I am upwind even with 180 horse engine I will probably stall and crash trying to maintain separation.
Click to expand...

There's no reason for something like that to ever use an airport. It's expressly not allowed in controlled airspace. Even if it were at an airport, it should be flown to behave like a helicopter, which we share the air with all the time.
 
I'm not bullish on this thing. It's probably going to fail, like most of these ventures do. And for the same reason: too expensive to be just a toy ($1000/hour!!) and just not useful enough to be anything else.

The engineering looks sound on the surface, though. Some guessing going on...there aren't too many technical details on the site. I'm curious where the batteries are. That there are 18 suggests right behind the motors. That would be sensible from a weight perspective: minimize power cabling and also minimize stress on frame allowing it to be lighter. It would also have the advantage of keeping the Li-ion batteries as high off the water as possible. From a packaging and balance perspective, though, the floats look like the best place. Doubt they're there...Lithium in a float...bad idea.
 
Rgbeard said:
It needs the floats for the trans-Atlantic flying that it'll be doing? LOL.
Click to expand...

Read 103.1(e)(1). The floats are very clever way of adding in structure without counting against the total weight allowed. And they can advertise the safety aspect!
 
arnoha said:
Get around? Seems to match right up, though the weight might need some creativity to justify.

§103.1 Applicability.
This part prescribes rules governing the operation of ultralight vehicles in the United States. For the purposes of this part, an ultralight vehicle is a vehicle that:

(a) Is used or intended to be used for manned operation in the air by a single occupant;
Check...single occupant.
(b) Is used or intended to be used for recreation or sport purposes only;
Check...15 minutes endurance, basically can't be used for anything else.
(c) Does not have any U.S. or foreign airworthiness certificate; and
True.
(d) If unpowered, weighs less than 155 pounds; or
Powered
(e) If powered:
Yes.
(1) Weighs less than 254 pounds empty weight, excluding floats and safety devices which are intended for deployment in a potentially catastrophic situation;
432 lbs. claimed, but...has floats and copious safety devices including airbags and rocket chute. I can buy that they weigh 178 lbs. with some creative grouping.
(2) Has a fuel capacity not exceeding 5 U.S. gallons;
Zero gallons.
(3) Is not capable of more than 55 knots calibrated airspeed at full power in level flight; and
45 MPH claimed.
(4) Has a power-off stall speed which does not exceed 24 knots calibrated airspeed.
Stall speed is zero.
Click to expand...
Their ad copy makes it look like it's a means of getting from point A to point B. But I agree, with 15 minutes of flight time, it's not going to be very useful in that respect.
 
With the complaints about RC drones coming close to airplanes, we could expect this sort of thing to simply up the ante on stupid.
 
arnoha said:
Get around? Seems to match right up, though the weight might need some creativity to justify.

§103.1 Applicability.
This part prescribes rules governing the operation of ultralight vehicles in the United States. For the purposes of this part, an ultralight vehicle is a vehicle that:

(a) Is used or intended to be used for manned operation in the air by a single occupant;
Check...single occupant.
(b) Is used or intended to be used for recreation or sport purposes only;
Check...15 minutes endurance, basically can't be used for anything else.
(c) Does not have any U.S. or foreign airworthiness certificate; and
True.
(d) If unpowered, weighs less than 155 pounds; or
Powered
(e) If powered:
Yes.
(1) Weighs less than 254 pounds empty weight, excluding floats and safety devices which are intended for deployment in a potentially catastrophic situation;
432 lbs. claimed, but...has floats and copious safety devices including airbags and rocket chute. I can buy that they weigh 178 lbs. with some creative grouping.
(2) Has a fuel capacity not exceeding 5 U.S. gallons;
Zero gallons.
(3) Is not capable of more than 55 knots calibrated airspeed at full power in level flight; and
45 MPH claimed.
(4) Has a power-off stall speed which does not exceed 24 knots calibrated airspeed.
Stall speed is zero.
Click to expand...
Power-off stall speed.
 
Brad Z said:
Their ad copy makes it look like it's a means of getting from point A to point B. But I agree, with 15 minutes of flight time, it's not going to be very useful in that respect.
Click to expand...
Depends on where those 15 minutes of flight time are spent. That's what, 11 miles? In LA rush hour traffic that's like 2.5 hours. :)
 
8-15 minutes depending on passenger weight. Let’s assume a 100 lb stick flying it and give 15 minutes. That gives it a max 12 mile range, less once you consider maneuvering at each end. So the real out and back range is 4-5 miles.

Cool idea but not practicable as transport.
 
It doesn’t say it can fly with 6 motor controllers disabled.
 
Salty said:
It doesn’t say it can fly with 6 motor controllers disabled.
Click to expand...

The dreaded 12 engine landing.

If all six were on the same side, there might be a problem. I'd hope the rest could arrest the descent enough to prevent serious injury.

Then again, where are you flying it to? Across the Hudson? Maybe truck it out somewhere and use it as a media platform?
 
If the controller fails you aren’t flying anymore even with all the motors. Are there multiple controllers?
 
Salty said:
If the controller fails you aren’t flying anymore even with all the motors. Are there multiple controllers?
Click to expand...
There almost certainly one motor controller for each motor.

Nauga,
throttled
 
nauga said:
There almost certainly one motor controller for each motor.

Nauga,
throttled
Click to expand...
How many controllers are taking gyro information and directing the motors what to do?
 
it appears to simply be a concept at this stage. if you have a few mil sitting around you could be their angel investor.

when i used to build/fly r/c quadcopters, we would use an electronic speed controller for each motor and that was controlled by a central board that had gyros on it. today's control boards are exceptionally smart and reliable...but no way in hale i would ride in one.
 
What does this machine do that BlackFly doesn't? Seems like the same idea, only worse.

iu
 
Salty said:
How many controllers are taking gyro information and directing the motors what to do?
Click to expand...
If I read their website correctly, three. They don't specifically call out gyros but if they're like other similar designs they also have redundant IMUs and/or AHRS, which would include 'gyros' or other angular rate data.

Nauga,
in triplicate
 
The horseless carriage will be never more than an Elite's fascination and curio.

9b6a5a08050a91039f884a1ad9bf5d33.jpg
 
Last edited:
In fifty some odd years in the aircraft Deveolpment world I have never seen any airplane meet its original weight estimate. If this comes anywhere near the ultralight weight limit even with a tortuous accounting finagle, I will be amazed.

I suppose one approach is to claim it’s actually a flying ejection seat thus having a 103 weight of zero.

Cheers
 
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