The IFR checkride and swapping planes at the last second...

fiveoboy01

fiveoboy01

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Dirty B
I've run into a dilemma and of course the timing couldn't have been worse.

Pretty much done with IFR training, passed my 40 hour mark, 95% on the written, just flying a few days a week to keep sharp as my instructor was basically gone 2 weeks in a row with charter flights.

The plan was to fly a couple times last week and then get the checkride done possibly this week or next.

Well, last weekend my airplane decided to develop a crack in the engine case. So that airplane is down for a while.

Coincidentally, the flight school's Archer just got back into service this past Friday(cracked case. LOL). Today, I rented it and went up with a CFI(different one, mine has Mondays off).

This airplane is significantly different than mine. It's an Archer but aside from the 6-pack, the panel isn't anywhere close to the same. I thought I could adapt almost instantly as I have 10-15 hours in it VFR over the past summer and fall, but I was wrong, and combine that with other little nuances that make this airplane different, I came away feeling pretty crappy after 2.5 hours today.

I'm really trying to decide if it's worth my time and money to try and finish my IFR in this airplane, or just wait 6-8 weeks for mine to be back in service, spend the time doing extra studying. I am very confident I could pass the checkride in my airplane, I'm not so confident about it in the rental and I don't know exactly how many hours it will take me to get comfortable in it. And I'm paying 120 an hour for it.

If I was halfway through training it wouldn't be a question, I'd just wait.

What do you guys think? Keep plugging away and get it done or wait for my own airplane?

I'm flying the rental tomorrow and Wednesday as well and I am hoping by the end of Wednesday that I will have a clear idea of whether or not to continue with it.
 
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I'm leaning that way.

It was Dan riding with me BTW. First time up with him, he was nice. He also threw some things at me that I'd never even heard of, so that maybe didn't help. He said I did pretty well for a different airplane but I wasn't convinced:)
 
Give it a few more hours in the archer,have the CFI give you an honest evaluation after 2 or 3 more hours.
 
I was in a similar situation a few years ago. Got signed off for my checkride in mid November, but the plane was due for its annual and I wanted some issues addressed prior to the ride. The annual turned into a 5 week marathon and there weren't any good options otherwise. By that time the weather turned cold and blustery. Had to cancel 3 times and take a continuance once due to weather. Eventually completed the ride in early May.

What about giving the rental Archer another try before giving up on it?
 
Yeah I already have it scheduled tomorrow and Wednesday.

Wednesday is with my "regular" CFI so I will see what his input is when we are done.
 
I'd keep going in the archer. Even if you don't take your checkride in it, it's good to get some experience behind different panels and it'd be nice to have another option when your preferred plane is out for maintenance or has a scheduling conflict.
 
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I was also in a similar situation last year. Just before my check-ride my Archer went into her annual. While all plane's were more or less similar, the difference was in the details... I also had problems with the new tailnumber but that might only be my issue...

You may want to fly the other plane again and decide after the next training...
 
I'd give some thought about your development as a pilot and your safety as a new IFR shoe.

While it's true you need to be capable in aircraft other than your own, does it make more sense to fix your airplane and use it to finish your ticket? After you pass the checkride, you are going to be flying your airplane pretty much exclusively. Is it smarter to wait, and get the experience in your airplane? Will you be a safer pilot because of the familiarity?

Talk to your instructor about it.
 
What's the difference? GPS?

Many of them have simulators you can practice on.

The radio stacks all work the same more or less, unless it only has one nav/comm or something like that. And of course autopilots or lack thereof.
 
6-8 weeks is a while, more than enough time for a decent amount of rust to form before the ride.

Getting a student right to check ride and having something happen where they can't fly for a couple months, it is often a large setback.


I'd put a few more hours into the schools plane and see how you feel.
 
I'm not going to act like a grumpy old guy (which I am neither), but steam gauges aren't rocket science. I have yet to fly a GPS approach in my career, and my original instrument check ride back in the day involved multiple NDB approaches and other such non-precision tasks. I'm not the most gifted guy to ever grace aviation, so if I can do it, I bet you can figure it out in the coming month and a half or so. Just a counterpoint. There are valuable things to be learned from not flying glass, even if realistically, that might be all you ever fly for the rest of your time in an airplane. Your money and your time, so it really comes down to how urgently you want it, but I wouldn't shy away from the new airplane. Plenty of dumber guys have done just fine in her, I guarantee.
 
35 AoA said:
I'm not going to act like a grumpy old guy (which I am neither), but steam gauges aren't rocket science. I have yet to fly a GPS approach in my career, and my original instrument check ride back in the day involved multiple NDB approaches and other such non-precision tasks. I'm not the most gifted guy to ever grace aviation, so if I can do it, I bet you can figure it out in the coming month and a half or so. Just a counterpoint. There are valuable things to be learned from not flying glass, even if realistically, that might be all you ever fly for the rest of your time in an airplane. Your money and your time, so it really comes down to how urgently you want it, but I wouldn't shy away from the new airplane. Plenty of dumber guys have done just fine in her, I guarantee.
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You've never flown a GPS approach in your career....
 
It's possible. My instructor refuses to do GPS approaches even though my airplane is well equipped to do them. Even to the point of changing the destination airport if the winds favor a runway with only a GPS approach.

I've just been doing them and teaching them to myself with a safety pilot.

I'm going to fly the rental again today with said safety pilot. We will see how it goes.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
It's possible. My instructor refuses to do GPS approaches even though my airplane is well equipped to do them. Even to the point of changing the destination airport if the winds favor a runway with only a GPS approach.

I've just been doing them and teaching them to myself with a safety pilot.

I'm going to fly the rental again today with said safety pilot. We will see how it goes.
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Does your CFI know that GPS approaches are fair game on the check ride?
 
fiveoboy01 said:
It's possible. My instructor refuses to do GPS approaches even though my airplane is well equipped to do them. Even to the point of changing the destination airport if the winds favor a runway with only a GPS approach.

I've just been doing them and teaching them to myself with a safety pilot.

I'm going to fly the rental again today with said safety pilot. We will see how it goes.
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Hello, its 2015! I would get a new CFI! You will almost certianly do a GPS approach on the checkride...and once you get your ticket most of your approaches in the real world will be GPS. Since getting my ticket (a couple months ago) all i have flown in the real world are ILS and RNAV.

I would probably spend a few more hours in the replacement plane and get it done. Also, if it has autopilot, make sure you are very comfortable with it. I took my checkride in a Cirrus SR22 and my DPE made sure i could hand fly partial panel and also use every bit of automation....its all fair game.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
It's possible. My instructor refuses to do GPS approaches even though my airplane is well equipped to do them. Even to the point of changing the destination airport if the winds favor a runway with only a GPS approach.

I've just been doing them and teaching them to myself with a safety pilot.

I'm going to fly the rental again today with said safety pilot. We will see how it goes.
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Not being a jerk here, ok.


FIND A NEW CFI NOW!

I'd also have a talk with the school owner if he's working for a school, that's a HUUUUGE disservice to the student and foolish everyday of the week.

I fly IFR for a living, operating out of small GA airports 70% of the time! I shoot GPS based approaches 90% of the time.

Your CFI is a straight inexperienced fool if he's not teaching GPS if the plane has a IFR GPS, guessing he's inexperienced with it and has no real world IFR time, he is passing his incompetence on to his students :mad2:


Real world you could probably fly your entire career nowadays and only shoot GPS and ILSs.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
It's possible. My instructor refuses to do GPS approaches even though my airplane is well equipped to do them. Even to the point of changing the destination airport if the winds favor a runway with only a GPS approach.

I've just been doing them and teaching them to myself with a safety pilot.

I'm going to fly the rental again today with said safety pilot. We will see how it goes.
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:hairraise:

You need to dump this CFI pronto.

Most of the instrument approaches out there these days are GPS/RNAV approaches so why this CFI thinks you shouldn't be doing them is beyond me. In real world flying these are going to be your goto options in most cases.
 
Sounds like your CFII doesn't know how to work your GPS. Either way, he's doing a disservice avoiding GPS approaches. Yeah, they're easier to fly, but also easier to screw up the buttonology due to the nuances of a GPS navigator. Sequencing to approach mode, holds, vectors to final, missed approach, etc., all need to be learned and mastered before 1) taking a checkride, and 2) flying in actual IMC.

If you're so far along that signed off for the checkride though, I'd take the two flights in the rental and see how confident you feel. Either way though, I might suggest shopping for another instructor who knows your avionics and will prepare you to fly your plane. Whether that's before the checkride or after depends on how these next couple flights go.
 
Well the rental doesn't even have a GPS so it would not be an issue. I'm very comfortable with GPS approaches, having practiced them and also I've used Garmins simulator quite a bit. Also, I've been up a few times with a different instructor who is a fan of actually using everything available. Unfortunately he's gone to a regional airline now.

I was a bit ignorant in the beginning. I was told to just not update the database and then the GPS wasn't legal for IFR and hence I couldn't be forced to use it on the checkride. I was also told it would take 10 extra hours to learn GPS approaches(I now know that's simply false).

Finally I told myself why did I buy an airplane and I'm not going to use the full capability? This is dumb... And I got the databases current.
 
Not only is the GPS usable for GPS approaches, but it also overlays other types. In particular, it's nice for use as a substitute DME for when you can't read the dim display in the sunlight (BTDT). And you need to be astute enough to make sure it's set to VLOC after the FAF (GTN 650s and G1000s are supposed to do that automatically, but it seems they don't always).

I prefer to set up VOR and ILS approaches with both the GPS and the NAV radios. Yesterday, I found the NAV2 GS caught and tracked a false glideslope below the actual glideslope. I figured it out from the altimeter and position. It was a lot faster with the GPS showing which segment I was on, rather than trying to read the excessively dim DME (the ILS was overlaid by a LOC/DME on the same chart, so I knew the GS was pointing me below the LOC/DME step-downs, outside the FAF).

I do think you're underestimating the difficulty of GPS approaches. One unpleasant "gotcha" is a sequencing fault, particularly when you get vectored to an intermediate fix.
 
I do use it as a situational awareness aid on non-GPS approaches.

The 430W is also supposed to switch to LOC automatically but I've yet to try it. I always switch it manually.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
I do use it as a situational awareness aid on non-GPS approaches.

The 430W is also supposed to switch to LOC automatically but I've yet to try it. I always switch it manually.
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I've never heard of the 430W changing automatically to VLOC. I've always changed it manually once I start getting vectors that way I don't forget.
 
It's in the manual. There's a setting to disable the function. It might not be activated on mine. As I said I just switch it manually.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
I do use it as a situational awareness aid on non-GPS approaches.

The 430W is also supposed to switch to LOC automatically but I've yet to try it. I always switch it manually.
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If you're using it as a substitute for DME, it's for more than "situational awareness." It tells you your minimum altitude, among other things.

"Situational awareness" is an overused term at least in this corner of aviation. It means something rather specific, and it means it is NOT primary. There is nothing wrong with the GPS being primary outside the FAF.
 
Not switching is a common mistake I see when riding as a safety pilot. I looked it up for the 430 and it seems it can be automated:

The GNS 430 can be set to automatically switch theexternal CDI output from GPS to VLOC as the pilotintercepts the final approach course. When the ILSapproach is activated, the GNS 430 automatically switcheswithin 1.2 nm left or right of the final approach course.This switch can take place anywhere from 2.0 to 15.0 nmfrom the FAF.NOTE: When intercepting the approach courseat a distance less than 2.0 nm from the FAF,the GNS 430 does not automatically switch theCDI to VLOC. In this case, press the CDI Key tomanually switch from GPS to VLOC.
 
Getting used to flying instruments with different aircraft and different panels is not a bad idea. Just not a week before the IR ride. When I was learning I flew in a C-172N (/G), a C-182P (/A) and an Arrow (/U). I finished up in the 172 and took the ride in it.

Know your avionics down pat. I was flying the ILS 17 into KTIW, had the localizer IDed and the needles centered when the 430W started telling me I needed to turn to go to a different place in the sky. I told the DPE that I must have pushed a wrong button, but we were on the approach, needles centered and that I would continue. He was fine with that. Know your avionics.

Remember, anything in the panel is fair game during the ride, so know how to use it. Oh, and that Arrow that was /U made me really appreciate having DME. :yes:
 
6-8 weeks is probably optimistic depending on what needs to be done. I always look on those estimates with a squinted gaze. **** always seems to takes longer, be harder, and cost more than people estimate up front.

But I don't know the details. The first flight on instruments in a new plane can be frustrating. Try it again and see what you think.
 
I'm only guessing on timeframe. I haven't been given one yet because the engine isn't even to the builder yet.

I flew again for a couple hours today. The safety pilot who is a good friend, gave me his honest opinion and that was that my confidence level is diminished and dealing with the changes in equipment is obviously causing me troubles. He's flown with me as safety pilot for about 25 hours now, so I trust his opinion.

That said, I'm done paying $120 an hour for this thing and will wait. I could finish up in it, but I don't want to. I'd rather knock off rust by flying 10 hours in my airplane than deal with this one any further. Taking the ride NOW isn't a necessity.

Probably the biggest annoyances to me with this airplane is that a sweep second hand timer sucks and there's no heading bug. The seat also refuses to position itself where I want it, and my landing sight picture is all wrong.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
I'm only guessing on timeframe. I haven't been given one yet because the engine isn't even to the builder yet.

I flew again for a couple hours today. The safety pilot who is a good friend, gave me his honest opinion and that was that my confidence level is diminished and dealing with the changes in equipment is obviously causing me troubles. He's flown with me as safety pilot for about 25 hours now, so I trust his opinion.

That said, I'm done paying $120 an hour for this thing and will wait. I could finish up in it, but I don't want to. I'd rather knock off rust by flying 10 hours in my airplane than deal with this one any further. Taking the ride NOW isn't a necessity.

Probably the biggest annoyances to me with this airplane is that a sweep second hand timer sucks and there's no heading bug. The seat also refuses to position itself where I want it, and my landing sight picture is all wrong.
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I can dig it. You're out 10 hours either way so you might as well fly what you've trained in. Flying something with substandard instruments is just no fun.

If the case is cracked they may just buy a reman'd engine off the shelf and maybe that will take less time? :dunno:
 
James331 said:
You've never flown a GPS approach in your career....
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correct. Have yet to fly an airplane that is certified for GPS approaches (or really even configured to do one). After 14 years, I'm starting to wonder what all the fuss is about :)
 
35 AoA said:
correct. Have yet to fly an airplane that is certified for GPS approaches (or really even configured to do one). After 14 years, I'm starting to wonder what all the fuss is about :)
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That's crazy, we'd be cooked if we couldn't shoot a GPS.
 
35 AoA said:
correct. Have yet to fly an airplane that is certified for GPS approaches (or really even configured to do one). After 14 years, I'm starting to wonder what all the fuss is about :)
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GPS approaches are handy when nothing else is available...Maybe you haven't wanted to land in Laverne MN or Dumas TX?
 
Clark1961 said:
GPS approaches are handy when nothing else is available...Maybe you haven't wanted to land in Laverne MN or Dumas TX?
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I've got no issue with GPS approaches…..wish we had them too. Then again, I can't say I have ever attempted to land in either of those places….
 
fiveoboy01 said:
Probably the biggest annoyances to me with this airplane is that a sweep second hand timer sucks and there's no heading bug.
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Those don't sound very big to me.

fiveoboy01 said:
The seat also refuses to position itself where I want it, and my landing sight picture is all wrong.
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Have you tried cushions? Adapting your skills to different airplanes is an art unto itself, cockpit organization being an important part of it. An "instrument pilot" is legal to fly any airplane on instruments. You can still make yourself a comfy office even when you can't move the furniture around.

dtuuri
 
When you've flown an aircraft for 100 hours straight and are used to it, little nuances make a large difference especially when you're low on experience. If you can remember where the sweep second hand is for 3:24 through the entire FAF to MAP segment of the approach, more power to you, but I'll lose track of how many times the second hand has made its way around the clock pretty easily when my workload is high.

Like I said, I can finish in the crappy rental airplane. Just don't want to.

A cushion won't do me any good. The seat needs to be lower. I can land the airplane, it's an annoyance.

Your comment about adapting to any airplane is valid but it's a stretch for someone who's inexperienced.
 
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