The GM Jet

[mikea]

You wanna know how PR spin succeeds?

This is what the talking head on local TV ended the story of the rejection (so far) of the bailout request: "In response to the criticism, yesterday GM sold its two jets."

Uh, huh. Two out of seven jets. Two jet leases ended. GM is down to only 5 jets.

 

[RMCN172RG]

You wanna know how PR spin succeeds?

This is what the talking head on local TV ended the story of the rejection (so far) of the bailout request: "In response to the criticism, yesterday GM sold its two jets."

Uh, huh. Two out of seven jets. Two jet leases ended. GM is down to only 5 jets.

Actually seven was an old number they were down to 5 and returned 2 so now they are leasing three and limiting the travel to only high level exec's.

Remember, they were leased and not owned by GM so they were not sold, no cash flow to GM from the sale of those babies just a spending reduction.

Now the leasing company is stuck with four jets and no revenue stream on them. But in this economy I'm sure they will sell fast.

 

[wabower]

Depends a lot on the lease structure. Capital leases are often fully paid out at expiration, while operating and synthetic leases are not. GM and other companies with similar (until now) financial clout typically get excellent lease terms. Maybe the facts will come out, due to the increased interest in this topic.

(

Actually seven was an old number they were down to 5 and returned 2 so now they are leasing three and limiting the travel to only high level exec's.

Remember, they were leased and not owned by GM so they were not sold, no cash flow to GM from the sale of those babies just a spending reduction.

Now the leasing company is stuck with four jets and no revenue stream on them. But in this economy I'm sure they will sell fast.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Well, I've been waiting for my call from Hank Paulson and, for some reason, it just hasn't come yet. So, if I need money to keep my business running, I guess I need to fly up to DC in a G-V, wear a $1,000 plus suit, have absolutely no plan to show why the money is needed, what it will be used for, how it will make the difference in keeping the industry solvent, and HOW THE TAXPAYER WILL GET PAID BACK. Is that the Detroit Executive presentation model?

Gee, what am I missing?

Only one thing, Dave - You won't be perceived as "too big to fail."

 

[flyingcheesehead]

The Ford Built in Mexico is more of an American car.
#1 the high paying jobs associated with the life cycle of the car is still a job in the US

Okay, so which has more of an impact on the US economy, the few engineering/executive jobs, or the metric assload of production jobs (which aren't exactly low-paying)?

and techinically Mexico is in america too.

Really? By "American" I don't mean "North American." How much tax revenue do we get from the workers at that plant? How much business do we get from their spending money?

I don't care if the low level assembly is done in Ohio, all the high paying jobs and profits go to Japan.

I don't care if the high paying jobs and profits are in Detroit, I just want a car that works.

No one gives you **** about a Volvo being american because it is! It's a FORD brand and had been for at least 10 years. You are currently driving a FORD.

No, if I was driving a Ford, and I turned the hazards on and pushed the brakes they'd stop blinking.

Ford may own Volvo, but that doesn't make my Volvo a Ford. And where was the engineering done on my car, anyway?

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Would this advise have helped the auto execs make their presentation?

http://tinyurl.com/6mnu9y

Best,

Dave

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Only one thing, Dave - You won't be perceived as "too big to fail."

Kent:

Well, maybe I can convert my business to a bank holding company! Hey, there's an idea

Let's see, AMEX did it! Funny, when they couldn't make their payments on time, the Gov'ment gave them more money, but if I can't make a payment to them on time, I get nasty letters and late charges. What's wrong with this picture?

That's what I'll: form Siciliano Bank Holding and ask for a couple billion to get going. I don't have any current losses, though. Maybe that would disqualify me.

Best,

Dave

 

[Everskyward]

I don't care if the high paying jobs and profits are in Detroit, I just want a car that works.

This is how I feel too. As long as the vehicle meets my needs and is reliable I don't care what company made it or where it was made. If I have good luck with one brand I might get another one, but it isn't a given. I've never had much brand loyalty when it comes to cars. I've had two Toyotas, a Ford, a Plymouth, a Jeep and a Subaru. As far as reliability goes, I think it improved among all brands as time went on. My 2003 Subaru has has fewer problems (actually none) than my 1978 Toyota did at the same mileage, but I think that is to be expected.

 

[KennyFlys]

Would this advise have helped the auto execs make their presentation?

http://tinyurl.com/6mnu9y

Best,

Dave

You mean a Brinks Alarm on the US Treasury?

Ohhh... you mean the piece with Cavuto afterward...

I like that. Maybe I should try it with my flight students. I already keep a bottle of Tums at my desk.



Cavuto used to actually work for PBS? Wow, I bet that was quite a fit.

 

[wabower]

Maybe you can use future expenses instead. Tell them you need the money for some new engines.

Kent:

Well, maybe I can convert my business to a bank holding company! Hey, there's an idea

Let's see, AMEX did it! Funny, when they couldn't make their payments on time, the Gov'ment gave them more money, but if I can't make a payment to them on time, I get nasty letters and late charges. What's wrong with this picture?

That's what I'll: form Siciliano Bank Holding and ask for a couple billion to get going. I don't have any current losses, though. Maybe that would disqualify me.

Best,

Dave

 

[SCCutler]

Image vs. reality: most American cars are good enough that the quality and reliability differences are now statistically insignificant. A well-maintained car will last a long time.

I remember (and this is not so very long ago) when, on a cold day, you needed a Chevy or a Plymouth to push-start a Datsun or Toyota on a cold day, because they just couldn't be started. But they got better and (guess what...), so have the domestic cars.

If- if - the product people at GM and Ford (I am not so sure about Chrysler anymore) were allowed to build the cars they know how to build, they would be seriously kicking butt.

My clients, construction business, always end up back with Ford and Chevy for trucks intended for heavy-duty, load-hauling use, especially Ford Super-Duty Power-Stroke Diesels. Some still prefer the Dodges with Cummins diesel. I rode over to Ft. Worth with a client (electrical contractor and cattle rancher- he's versatile) whose Dodge truck, Cummins diesel, dual rear wheels, has 113k miles, and he considers it to be good for at least 100k more. It looks good, and pulls a goose-neck trailer with 10,000 lbs like it's nothing.

The Toyotas are good for executive truck-like use, but do not stand up to persistent heavy-duty load hauling. Good products, each, different use. Nissans are "cool" trucks, edgy styling, French quality.

But the point is, the American vehicles are Good. They are just burdened, cost-wise, with too much legacy expense to be realistically competitive.

My Caddy, Deville, rides smooth and quiet, gets 28 mpg at 78 mph (assuming I can get untainted gasoline, with ethanol blend it drops to about 24), and it's fast. At 94,000 miles, i am very happy with it.

---

OBTW, any of you looked at the new Hyundai Genesis? They are gonna sell the pee out of those things.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Spike: I will agree with you quality has come up; trucks are good and I have a Sliverado for the company, but, you seem to be missing something. Many of us have gotten screwed big time by the big three in the past and after once or twice, have sworn never to go back to them.

I had several issues with both cars and service of those vehicles before I went to BMW. It would be very difficult to ever get me back. And, I do rent 'merican cars when I travel. Compared to my car, they just aren't in the same league. Better, but not on-a-par. Consumers Reports will echo that if you look at reviews. Some are rated well, but almost all below something else.

It's also the marketing: all image stuff. They kept changing models so one felt compelled to change. Sold folks on changing for new every couple years. I just keep driving my '03 BMW and very folks know what year it is. Minor differences with new ones. Has never straded me as several 'merican cars have in the past. My old Cadillac had a rubber timing belt that broke on the freeway coming out of the 50,000 mile check up. They were known to break. Dealership didn't change it even though the 50,000 mile checklist said to. They said they didn't change them unless I specifically said to even though it was on the list. They got to speck to my attorney after some back and forth. I purchased a BMW and have never gone back.

Best,

Dave

 

[kevin47881]

"Foreign" Any company incorprated in and their profits go to a country that is not the United States of America. IE Toyota, Honda, VW, Damler (including Chrysler while owned)

Good; Toyota (Gulf States Toyota, Southeast Toyota, Toyota of America), Honda (American Honda), Nissan (Nissan North America), Suzuki (American Suzuki), Mitsubishi (Mitsubishi Motor Sales of America) et al are incorporated in America. As such, they each have a balance sheet for which they are responsible.

It's a global economy whether we like it or not.

 

[sba55]

Spike,

I get the Caddi CTS quite a bit when I rent for business. That's the first American car I've driven with a decent interior layout. Mind you, it's still made out of cheap plastic, which shows in some places, but at least it looks ok. Other than that, I don't think it's a matter of just perception. Look at a new VW Golf and then at an Impala. It's so far apart in terms of quality. THe interior, electrics, engine...not the same. Maybe if you compared it to a Golf from 15 years ago.

To be fair, though, people just spend more money on cars in Europe - that shows when it comes to quality. Btw., I think the Caddis are decent highway cars. But, for example, if you compare the safety features of a STS (which is rather expensive) to those of a 3x BMW, you'll find that the STS has almost nothing. It does have ABS these days, but that's about 2 decades too late.

Lot's of GM products you buy here have have Australian parts in them (many of the 3800 series engines are built in Melbourne), and the Pontiac GTO is a wholely Aussie built car marketed there as the Holden Monaro. In my experience though, a European or Aussie GM or Ford product is just a big of piece of crap as it's US cousin, but then, nobody builds a truly good car regardless of the price point.

There's definitely that re-branding going on for Holden-Pontiac-Vauxhall.

How many European Fords/GMs have you owned? Their US equivalents do not compare in terms of quality. Ever driven a Ford Mondeo? That's a worthy competitor for the BMW 5/Mercedes E. Can't say that about any car from the US.

-Felix

 

[kevin47881]

The Ford Built in Mexico is more of an American car.
#1 the high paying jobs associated with the life cycle of the car is still a job in the US and techinically Mexico is in america too.

You're joking, right? I must have missed the US losing its sovereignty to Mexico.

I don't care if the low level assembly is done in Ohio, all the high paying jobs and profits go to Japan.

Engineers, management, assembly line, me...not low paying jobs at all. We have our own balance sheet in which we are responsible.

No one gives you **** about a Volvo being american because it is! It's a FORD brand and had been for at least 10 years. You are currently driving a FORD.

You're joking, right? Jaguar is also owned by Ford. Would you statement also hold true here? I guess you would consider a Suzuki XL-7 an "American" car since it is produced by GM in Canada?

 

[SCCutler]

Actually, Jaguar is now owned by Tata Motors of India.

===

I had a Honda that was a loosely-affiliated gathering of parts, flying in formation. When it ran, it was delightful. But, I do not think the Hondas are bad cars, because nearly everyone I know who has one, loves it, and they make the most freakin' delightful 4-cylinder engines.


My point, though, was not to suggest that a Cadillac is better than a BMW; they're apples and... ummm... lugnuts.

My point is, though, that times and cars change. European cars from the 70s could barely be made to run, because the seminal work in emissions control was all done here, and most of them had the emissions control hardware added on as an afterthought. And remember "Mark IV" air conditioners? But they got all better (or they left the market... seen any Renaults here lately?).

So, I am keeping an open mind, and I still like my Cadillac (which, blessedly, has timing chains, no timing belt at all).

 

[kevin47881]

Actually, Jaguar is now owned by Tata Motors of India.

True, I forgot about the sale. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Henning]

How many European Fords/GMs have you owned? Their US equivalents do not compare in terms of quality. Ever driven a Ford Mondeo? That's a worthy competitor for the BMW 5/Mercedes E. Can't say that about any car from the US.

-Felix

Several Opels, a couple of GTs and a Senator and one coupe I can't recall the name of. Ford/Mercury Capris (the old German ones) probably a dozen or so, they were good sellers back in the day. Drove many other European cars in Europe. Had a Ford in Aus as well as a SAAB. And if you think comparing a Ford Mondeo to a BMW 5 series or Mercedes E class is some badge of quality, well, sorry, but I don't give any of those vehicles a badge of "Quality". Just go look at the service department of a Mercedes or BMW dealership. Hell if it wasn't for the "Everything including oil changes" warranty that comes on a Beemer, they would lose 2/3rds of their buyers. There just isn't a good car built at this point. I'm beginning to believe that Bently might be making something decent with the new series, but I still haven't come to a full decission on that yet.

 

[sba55]

Several Opels, a couple of GTs and a Senator and one coupe I can't recall the name of. Ford/Mercury Capris (the old German ones) probably a dozen or so, they were good sellers back in the day. Drove many other European cars in Europe. Had a Ford in Aus as well as a SAAB. And if you think comparing a Ford Mondeo to a BMW 5 series or Mercedes E class is some badge of quality, well, sorry, but I don't give any of those vehicles a badge of "Quality". Just go look at the service department of a Mercedes or BMW dealership. Hell if it wasn't for the "Everything including oil changes" warranty that comes on a Beemer, they would lose 2/3rds of their buyers. There just isn't a good car built at this point. I'm beginning to believe that Bently might be making something decent with the new series, but I still haven't come to a full decission on that yet.

It's all relative, isn't it? We're not talking about absolute quality, only quality compared to competitors. MB/BMW/Audi/VW are in the lead.

 

[Henning]

It's all relative, isn't it? We're not talking about absolute quality, only quality compared to competitors. MB/BMW/Audi/VW are in the lead.

In a relative discussion, I'm relatively nauseated by all of their relative lack of concern for the relative longevity of their relative vehicles especially considering their relative price tags to relative value. I have a client who 2 years ago bought a BMW 750iL, I have seen him drive it twice. Every other time I have seen him he has been in a dealer "loaner" because they can't figure out the electronic issues with his car that will suddenly shut him down in the middle of the road. I'm sorry, but last time a car stranded me on the side of the road, I popped off the tags and the V.I.N. plate off the dash, pulled my glove compartment pistol out and unloaded all the ammo I had into it. It is the one unforgivable sin for a car to do to you, especially a brand new one that required a check north of $100k to acquire. My 8 year old Dodge Neon is more reliable, actually, it's completely reliable. I have to put oil in the engine (which it consumes) and freon in the A/C and air in the tires, the paint is peeling off of it... but I paid $1000 for it over a year and a half ago and it has never stranded me or failed to start, but then, I told it when I bought it "You f- me over and I'll blow you to kingdom come then shove you into the ocean..." When my client asked me what I thought he should do with his 750, I told him "100mph off the pier should take care of it."

 

[jmaynard]

OBTW, any of you looked at the new Hyundai Genesis? They are gonna sell the pee out of those things.

I haven't looked at the Genesis...but I was very, very impressed with the Azera I had as a rental a couple of years ago. (And I say that as a two-time Lexus owner!) The Azera showed Hyundai had very little they needed to learn from Lexus; if the Genesis is as improved as I think it is, it's gonna be a Cadillac-killer (and give Lexus serious competition).

 

[jmaynard]

To be fair, though, people just spend more money on cars in Europe

Amen to that. I about fell over when I saw that the new price for an Audi A4 in France was over 45,000 euros.

Ever driven a Ford Mondeo?

Never have, never will. I'm not interested in giving the Ford Motor Company one dime more of my money.

 

[SCCutler]

I haven't looked at the Genesis...but I was very, very impressed with the Azera I had as a rental a couple of years ago. (And I say that as a two-time Lexus owner!) The Azera showed Hyundai had very little they needed to learn from Lexus; if the Genesis is as improved as I think it is, it's gonna be a Cadillac-killer (and give Lexus serious competition).

Steve has an Azera, and when we rode in it, it was the first time I had seen one. Very nice, no compromises I could see. I was favorably impressed.

 

[Missa]

You're joking, right? I must have missed the US losing its sovereignty to Mexico.

The United States of America does not equal "America" Got to Cadana and try to say that... they get a but ****ed. America is the Continent... The United States of America is not the only thing that is "American"

 

[sba55]

Never have, never will. I'm not interested in giving the Ford Motor Company one dime more of my money.

Fair enough. If you had driven one, you'd have noticed that it's in a different class compared to the cars Ford makes here.

As for the Azera....Avis SFO has a few of those. I tried one once when they were out of Caddis (got to love Chairman's Club). Not very impressive - cheap plastics, boring engine, and none of the pieces inside really fit together. But for the price, it's not bad. I prefer the Toyota Avalon. It's got a much better engine than every other car Avis offers, including the CTS/STS V8

 

[jmaynard]

As for the Azera....Avis SFO has a few of those. I tried one once when they were out of Caddis (got to love Chairman's Club).

Never made the Chairman's Club. (Not sure what that is, for that matter.) I was a Preferred Select member, but told them to take a hike when they refused to quit giving me Fords. The last straw was after I'd added "NO FORDS" to my Wizard profile, and the lady at the counter in Knoxville said "Your profile said no Fords, so I gave you a Mercury". Now, I'm a happy National Emerald Club Executive Elite customer.

Not very impressive - cheap plastics, boring engine, and none of the pieces inside really fit together. But for the price, it's not bad.

That didn't describe the one I had, though it was out of LIT. The performance was good enough that I remembered it when I first test-drove my RX350.

I prefer the Toyota Avalon. It's got a much better engine than every other car Avis offers, including the CTS/STS V8

I had a brand new STS when I went to Sebring for the LSA show this past January. Nice, but not a Lexus-beater.

 

[sba55]

Never made the Chairman's Club. (Not sure what that is, for that matter.) I was a Preferred Select member, but told them to take a hike when they refused to quit giving me Fords. The last straw was after I'd added "NO FORDS" to my Wizard profile, and the lady at the counter in Knoxville said "Your profile said no Fords, so I gave you a Mercury". Now, I'm a happy National Emerald Club Executive Elite customer.

A bit off topic - there's PCM and CHM with Avis. You cannot get them by renting a lot, they invite you if you're a decision-maker or CEO for a major corporation; alternatively, some of the big contracts come with a small number of invitations. You can also get it if you have a NetJets/MarquisJet membership

PCM is two car upgrade, better service. CHM is upgrade to best available car, valet service to/from terminal, pickup within 20 miles, personal greeting (every noticed those "Avis welcomes Mr. Abc" signs?). Usually, you are met by the location manager, they've got the car running in front, help you with your luggage, etc. Probably the best program of any of the majors.

That didn't describe the one I had, though it was out of LIT. The performance was good enough that I remembered it when I first test-drove my RX350.

Yeah, it's good, but it's not overwhelming. Felt too much like a Camry with all the options added.

I had a brand new STS when I went to Sebring for the LSA show this past January. Nice, but not a Lexus-beater.

Definitely not. But, sadly, Avis doesn't have Lexus

 

[jason]

The wife has a 2004 Toyota Camry with 130k on it. I swear it runs better than my old Dodge Intrepid did when I bought it with 14k on it. It's the best built, best running vehicle I've ever owned.

My father-in-law didn't like the fact that I was looking at cars with over 60k miles on them for his daughter to drive. After we bought the Camry his Pontiac with 70k miles blew a head gasket. I went out to move it in the driveway a couple of weeks ago and thought the damn thing was going to rattle apart. Which is pretty much exactly how my Intrepid felt at 120k miles (after the mechanic told me that he would no longer work on the a/c because I'd never be able to get it working again).

I'd leave on a trip around the world in the Camry tomorrow. There isn't a single thing that I've found on that car that doesn't work like the day that it came out of the factory. It's still worth about $10,000...with 130,000 miles. The big three can all go to hell. I'll never buy anything but a Toyota or a Honda again.

 

[Bob Noel]

>The big three can all go to hell. I'll never buy anything but a Toyota or a Honda again.

well, as long as you have an open mind about it...

 

[jesse]

I bought my Pontiac Sunfire a couple years ago with about 60,000 miles on it. I'm rolling on 140,000 miles now minus the failed air conditioning. During this time I've done the following:

1) Front brakes, twice
2) Starter
3) Alternator
4) Bolted muffler back on after a mount broke and it was dragging on the road

That is all I can really think of. There has been the minor this or that over the years but I'm fairly mechanical and just fix it. I probably spend an average of $200 per year keeping it going. Car is of course paid off, cheap ass insurance, basically free to drive...

To hell with buying a new expensive car. I'm personally not convinced that foreign cars are really that much better. I think it just depends on the MODEL and how it has been treated over the years. Everyone has made something that is crap. I know I've spent plenty of time helping friends fix their Honda or Toyota the same as I've fixed mine.

 

[jason]

>The big three can all go to hell. I'll never buy anything but a Toyota or a Honda again.

well, as long as you have an open mind about it...

Yeah, it's kind of strong...but it's how I feel. This is coming from a died-in-the-wool US car guy. My first two vehicles were Chevy trucks (that I was always working on). My third was a Buick (that was actually a decent car). My fourth was the Dodge Intrepid that I bought with 14,000 miles on it. I've taken great care of all of my vehicles. I change spark plugs, I pay for tune ups when the book says. I change/flush the coolant and brake systems regularly. I change timing belts/chains at 100,000 miles. If somebody does these things there is no reason for a car to break down. My Dodge was in the shop constantly after 80,000 miles. I spent thousands of dollars on it. Way more than I should have. At 70,000 miles the power window switch went bad. At 100,000 miles I started my a/c issues. At 110,000 miles I was driving along when it started to overheat. I pulled over and the coolant was flowing out of the radiator. The drain plug had gone bad. Seriously.

We've owned the Camry for about a year and a half. I haven't put anything into it besides gas and oil. It doesn't have a single squeak or rattle. Even the brakes are impressive. They wear in perfect unison...and last forever. Every time I drive this car I can't believe that it has more than 20,000 miles on it.

About six months ago I asked my mechanic if there was anything that I should do to this car (when I had my Dodge pick-up in the shop). He agreed to take a look at it for a minimal charge (as my Dodge vehicles have given him plenty of business). Should I change the timing chain? Spark plugs? Transmission fluid? He said that he couldn't find a single thing wrong with the car. He said that anything that I put into it would be a waste of money. It didn't need a thing. 130,000 miles on it and it didn't need a single thing done to it.

I know I've droned on and on...but Toyota has won a customer for life. Go buy the Consumer Reports used car guide and compare reliability with the American manufacturers. Pretty much every single vehicle that Toyota, Honda and Lexus manufacture rates a 5/5 in quality year after year. Detroit may put out one 5/5 a year.

These lists tell the entire story. This is why the Big Three are in trouble.

Best of the best

These are models that have performed well in CR road tests over the years, and have proved to have several or more years of better-than-average reliability. Listed alphabetically.


Acura Integra
Acura MDX
Acura RL
Acura RSX
Acura TL
Acura TSX
BMW M3
Buick LaCrosse
Honda Accord
Honda Civic
Honda Civic Hybrid
Honda CR-V
Honda Element
Honda Odyssey
Honda Pilot
Honda S2000
Infiniti FX
Infiniti G20
Infiniti G35
Infiniti I30, I35
Infiniti QX4
Lexus ES
Lexus ES
Lexus GS (RWD)
Lexus GX
Lexus IS
Lexus LS
Lexus RX
Lexus SC
Lincoln Continental
Lincoln Town Car
Mazda Millenia
Mazda MX-5 Miata
Mazda Protegé
Mazda3
Mitsubishi Endeavor
Mitsubishi Outlander
Nissan Altima
Nissan Maxima
Nissan Murano
Pontiac Vibe
Porsche 911 (except '03)
Scion tC
Scion xB
Subaru Baja
Subaru Forester
Subaru Impreza
Subaru Legacy
Subaru Outback
Toyota 4Runner
Toyota Avalon
Toyota Camry (except '07 V6)
Toyota Camry Solara
Toyota Celica
Toyota Corolla
Toyota Echo
Toyota Highlander
Toyota Land Cruiser
Toyota Matrix
Toyota Prius
Toyota RAV4
Toyota Sequoia
Toyota Sienna
Toyota Tundra (except '07 V8 4WD)
Volvo S60

Worst of the worst

These models have multiple years of much worse than Used Car Verdicts in the 1998 to 2007 models. Listed alphabetically.


Buick Rendezvous (AWD)
Buick Terraza
Chevrolet Astro
Chevrolet Blazer
Chevrolet Colorado (4WD)
Chevrolet S-10 Pickup (4WD)
Chevrolet Uplander
Chevrolet Venture
Chrysler Town & Country (AWD)
Dodge Grand Caravan (AWD)
GMC Canyon (4WD)
GMC Jimmy
GMC S-15 Sonoma (4WD)
GMC Safari
Jeep Grand Cherokee
Kia Sedona
Land Rover Discovery, LR3
Lincoln Aviator
Mercedes-Benz SL
Nissan Armada (4WD)
Nissan Titan (4WD)
Oldsmobile Bravada
Oldsmobile Silhouette
Pontiac Aztek
Pontiac G6
Pontiac Montana, Trans Sport, Montana SV6
Saturn Relay
Volkswagen Cabriolet
Volkswagen Jetta Sedan (turbo)
Volkswagen Jetta Sedan (V6)
Volkswagen Touareg

 

[jason]

I bought my Pontiac Sunfire a couple years ago with about 60,000 miles on it. I'm rolling on 140,000 miles now minus the failed air conditioning. During this time I've done the following:

1) Front brakes, twice
2) Starter
3) Alternator
4) Bolted muffler back on after a mount broke and it was dragging on the road

That is all I can really think of. There has been the minor this or that over the years but I'm fairly mechanical and just fix it. I probably spend an average of $200 per year keeping it going. Car is of course paid off, cheap ass insurance, basically free to drive...

These things add up for the average owner. Most people aren't as mechanically gifted as you are. To the average owner each and every "minor this or that" adds up to $100+ with a mechanic.

Look at the lists in my last post. Better yet, start looking through KBB at used car prices. Compare like models year to year and feature for feature. Used Toyota's simply don't lose their value at anywhere near the pace of American cars. That tells the entire story.

To hell with buying a new expensive car. I'm personally not convinced that foreign cars are really that much better. I think it just depends on the MODEL and how it has been treated over the years. Everyone has made something that is crap. I know I've spent plenty of time helping friends fix their Honda or Toyota the same as I've fixed mine.

When have you EVER heard me advocate that? Shannon's Toyota was three years old and had 115,000+ miles on it when we bought it. It's still the highest quality car I've ever owned.

 

[jesse]

When have you EVER heard me advocate that? Shannon's Toyota was three years old and had 115,000+ miles on it when we bought it. It's still the highest quality car I've ever owned.

Uhm...Where did I say that you advocate that??? ...I'm confused.

 

[sba55]

To hell with buying a new expensive car.

I completely agree. I had been planning to buy a BMW M3 for some time. But then I realized that I could pay for a new Bendix-King KSN770 NAV/GPS with the depreciation alone. A much better investment!

 

[jason]

Uhm...Where did I say that you advocate that??? ...I'm confused.

Sorry. Just got fired up...

 

[tonycondon]

jesse didnt you do the front wheel bearings on the sunfire as well?

ive done the wheel bearings, a set of brakes, intake manifold gasket, chased power steering gremlins, an alternator, and a set of tires on the 100K i've put on my Alero.

 

[jesse]

jesse didnt you do the front wheel bearings on the sunfire as well?

No. I probably should someday but I'll worry about that when a wheel busts off. I did remove the front right wheel bearing assembly once when I busted a lug bolt and had to replace it.

 

[tonycondon]

oh, i guess that was it, i remember you telling me about sitting in the freezing cold parking lot hammering on the wheel for hours.

you dont have to wait for the wheel to fall off to replace the bearing, they'll start to warn you well ahead of time. not too hard to fix either. i managed to do the second one on my own!

 

[jesse]

No. I probably should someday but I'll worry about that when a wheel busts off. I did remove the front right wheel bearing assembly once when I busted a lug bolt and had to replace it.

Oh. I just remembered a few more. I also replaced:

1. Coils
2. Plugs
3. Spark plug wires
4. fuel filter

I've also changed the oil about every 30,000 miles or so.

 

[jason]

I've also changed the oil about every 30,000 miles or so.