The GM Jet

Everskyward said:
I think that more than a handful of companies use their corporate jets for things other than top executive travel. The one I fly is used as a company shuttle. Even when some of the top execs are on board the airplane is open to other employees going the same way. In the six months I have been flying it I have not loaded one set of golf clubs and I haven't been to any resort destinations.
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we have that at my company. as well as all the other stuff.
 
And one of the fancy china guys likes to shop at Harrod's in London. He has brought some incredible food (not to mention chocolates) for our westbounds back home. Almost good enough to make that trip fun.

wsuffa said:
I've ridden in back with a couple of guys like that.

One decided he didn't like the usual catering stuff, so he has tasked his pilots with finding great local food to have on board. On one flight, we had fresh Chicago pizza....
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The Detroit auto industry is about as FUBAR as it gets by a cancer called "I'm entitled to...". They're run by what can only be described as an aristocracy were everyone above a certain level gets posh meals in executive dining rooms, private chauffeured limo service to/from the office, and access to a private fleet of jets. It's no wonder the UAW has a take no prisoners approach to it's contract negotiations and has puffed up Joe Lugnuts compensation and retirement benefits to the point that the companies are no longer viable. I saw something in last nights paper about the staggering financial load of medical benefits to retirees that aren't old enough to qualify for medicare - say what? If the unions have negotiated a contract that let's them retire at 55 and now the company is in trouble are tax payers expected to pick up that slack? And what are we going to do - keep whining about how in Korea they don't have to pay guy that screws lugnuts on all day $100,000 a year with a early retirement and medical for the rest of his life? The best thing that could happen to this industry long term is to break the legacy of poor judgement by running it through the bankruptcy process. It'll be really ugly and painful just like it always is to treat cancer but in the end it's the only hope.
 
If the auto industry leaders can't figure out that it's bad press to fly a corporate jet to washington to ask for money, what on earth makes congress think that they will know how to create cars which will appeal to the American consumer?
 
infotango said:
If the auto industry leaders can't figure out that it's bad press to fly a corporate jet to washington to ask for money, what on earth makes congress think that they will know how to create cars which will appeal to the American consumer?
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Their sterling track record since the first oil embargo in 1973?
 
wabower said:
Their sterling track record since the first oil embargo in 1973?
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That's also when government regulations really started to kick in.

You will average X miles per gallon and increase by ......

You will add seat belts, air bags and make car crash proof.

You will decrease emissions while improving fuel econmy.

You will recall 300,000 10 year old automobiles to fix a possible loose screw that has caused 30 accidents at a cost of $500 per unit. That is a point .01% failure rate but we must be sure and protect our citizens from the ruthless auto industry.

OK, off the soap box now, NEXT.:fingerwag:
 
RMCN172RG said:
That's also when government regulations really started to kick in.

You will average X miles per gallon and increase by ......

You will add seat belts, air bags and make car crash proof.

You will decrease emissions while improving fuel econmy.

You will recall 300,000 10 year old automobiles to fix a possible loose screw that has caused 30 accidents at a cost of $500 per unit. That is a point .01% failure rate but we must be sure and protect our citizens from the ruthless auto industry.

OK, off the soap box now, NEXT.:fingerwag:
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And the foreign car companies are exempt from all of the above regulations?
 
PittsDriver said:
The Detroit auto industry is about as FUBAR as it gets by a cancer called "I'm entitled to...". They're run by what can only be described as an aristocracy were everyone above a certain level gets posh meals in executive dining rooms, private chauffeured limo service to/from the office, and access to a private fleet of jets. It's no wonder the UAW has a take no prisoners approach to it's contract negotiations and has puffed up Joe Lugnuts compensation and retirement benefits to the point that the companies are no longer viable. I saw something in last nights paper about the staggering financial load of medical benefits to retirees that aren't old enough to qualify for medicare - say what? If the unions have negotiated a contract that let's them retire at 55 and now the company is in trouble are tax payers expected to pick up that slack? And what are we going to do - keep whining about how in Korea they don't have to pay guy that screws lugnuts on all day $100,000 a year with a early retirement and medical for the rest of his life? The best thing that could happen to this industry long term is to break the legacy of poor judgement by running it through the bankruptcy process. It'll be really ugly and painful just like it always is to treat cancer but in the end it's the only hope.
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amen!
 
kevin47881 said:
No we're not. And out of curiosity, define "foreign".
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Heh... I used to love it when someone driving an "American" car gave me crap for driving a Honda.

My response: "Which one is more American, my Honda that was built in Ohio, or your Ford that was build in Mexico?"

That shut 'em up pretty quick. :yes:

Now that I have a Volvo, they'd have more of a point (I think these are still built overseas) but nobody's given me any crap for having a Volvo. :dunno:
 
Both my GMs were assembled in the US. And 80+% US/CAN parts.
 
mikea said:
Honda, Toyota, and Nissan, even when they make cars in Tennessee, while GM builds True Red White and Blue American cars in Canada.
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and Mexico and everywhere else, as does everyone else.
 
RMCN172RG said:
That's also when government regulations really started to kick in.

You will average X miles per gallon and increase by ......

You will add seat belts, air bags and make car crash proof.

You will decrease emissions while improving fuel econmy.

You will recall 300,000 10 year old automobiles to fix a possible loose screw that has caused 30 accidents at a cost of $500 per unit. That is a point .01% failure rate but we must be sure and protect our citizens from the ruthless auto industry.

OK, off the soap box now, NEXT.:fingerwag:
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Was the intervention because the car makers were in too big a hurry to implement these changes? When has Detroit ever led the way on any beneficial change?
 
mikea said:
Honda, Toyota, and Nissan, even when they make cars in Tennessee, while GM builds True Red White and Blue American cars in Canada.
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And Mexico and Korea and ... you get the point. It's a global market whether we like it or not.
 
EdFred said:
Both my GMs were assembled in the US. And 80+% US/CAN parts.
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I've bought three Toyota products new. Two were built in Japan. One was built in Ontario. They had identical, perfect reliability records.

The two Fords I've bought new that were built in the US were disasters that racked up several thousand dollars in premature repairs that weren't covered by warranty. One $1700 repair had to be done twice, separated by 4000 miles, and Ford wouldn't honor the repair warranty.

Guess what I'm buying next? I recognize the major problems it would cause to the economy, but a large part of me wants to see Ford go down the tubes, just like they almost sent me.
 
I read recently that 113,000 US jobs are working for Japanese auto companies. Does anyone know if the Japanese/European car company plants in the US are staffed by UAW workers?

I went shopping for a truck recently and was hell bent on buying American. My thinking was if I was ever going to give an American car another chance, it would be on a truck. Chevy/GMC were giving them away too - a $42,000 truck could be bought new for $30,000 and there was one dealer in the midwest somewhere that was offering a two for one sale on pick ups. I looked at them long and hard and then bought a Toyota Tacoma. The quality just wasn't there, the dealers weren't as customer friendly, and when I made the mental switch to a smaller truck, the American choices just plain stink by comparison.
 
PittsDriver said:
I read recently that 113,000 US jobs are working for Japanese auto companies. Does anyone know if the Japanese/European car company plants in the US are staffed by UAW workers?
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The ones I know of are, that's not to say that I know all of them or they all are, but at least some are.
 
jmaynard said:
I've bought three Toyota products new. Two were built in Japan. One was built in Ontario. They had identical, perfect reliability records.

The two Fords I've bought new that were built in the US were disasters that racked up several thousand dollars in premature repairs that weren't covered by warranty. One $1700 repair had to be done twice, separated by 4000 miles, and Ford wouldn't honor the repair warranty.

Guess what I'm buying next? I recognize the major problems it would cause to the economy, but a large part of me wants to see Ford go down the tubes, just like they almost sent me.
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It happens. I've been driving GM since I got my driver's license, with the exception of when I made the mistake of buying a Jeep which I had in the shop a dozen times in less than 2 years and. We run our GM company vehicles well past 200k miles, and some over 300k. In 18 years, I've had a GM vehicle in the shop twice.
 
Since 1980 I've owned six new Ford vehicles (including the hybrid I'm driving now).
All with perfect reliability records. My favorite was my 1993 Ford Explorer.

I'm hoping my next car is a plug-in hybrid (in 4-6 years).
 
Bob Noel said:
Since 1980 I've owned six new Ford vehicles (including the hybrid I'm driving now).
All with perfect reliability records. My favorite was my 1993 Ford Explorer.

I'm hoping my next car is a plug-in hybrid (in 4-6 years).
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I sure like what I hear about the Ford Hybrid Escape.

Unfortunately, Ford will always be known for the Edsal and the Pinto (BOOM!). Just like GM will be known for making a name for Ralph Nader (the Corvair).
 
wsuffa said:
I sure like what I hear about the Ford Hybrid Escape.

Unfortunately, Ford will always be known for the Edsal and the Pinto (BOOM!). Just like GM will be known for making a name for Ralph Nader (the Corvair).
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But they are also known for two iconic american cars....

The Mustang, and the Corvette.
 
EdFred said:
But they are also known for two iconic american cars....

The Mustang, and the Corvette.
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Neither of which is very well built. Compared to the competition at least.

GM/Ford know how to build good cars - they do it in other countries. Ford or GM in Europe/Australia are on the same level of quality as their competitors. Of course, cars are also more expensive there.

-Felix
 
sba55 said:
Neither of which is very well built. Compared to the competition at least.

GM/Ford know how to build good cars - they do it in other countries. Ford or GM in Europe/Australia are on the same level of quality as their competitors. Of course, cars are also more expensive there.

-Felix
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Lot's of GM products you buy here have have Australian parts in them (many of the 3800 series engines are built in Melbourne), and the Pontiac GTO is a wholely Aussie built car marketed there as the Holden Monaro. In my experience though, a European or Aussie GM or Ford product is just a big of piece of crap as it's US cousin, but then, nobody builds a truly good car regardless of the price point.
 
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RMCN172RG said:
The CEO of GM, who is poorly paid versus the CEO of Ford, less than half, makes a little over $1900 per hour. How much time do want him spending in line at the airport, walking to a gate or trying to hold a conversation on his cell phone? edit: or sitting in a van?
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Well in this particular case it might have cost the companies their very existence to not have the CEOs stand in line at the airport.

(Though I'd be willing to bet that they get bailed out in the end for better or worse.)
 
kevin47881 said:
No we're not. And out of curiosity, define "foreign".
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"Foreign" Any company incorprated in and their profits go to a country that is not the United States of America. IE Toyota, Honda, VW, Damler (including Chrysler while owned)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Heh... I used to love it when someone driving an "American" car gave me crap for driving a Honda.

My response: "Which one is more American, my Honda that was built in Ohio, or your Ford that was build in Mexico?"

That shut 'em up pretty quick. :yes:

Now that I have a Volvo, they'd have more of a point (I think these are still built overseas) but nobody's given me any crap for having a Volvo. :dunno:
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The Ford Built in Mexico is more of an American car.
#1 the high paying jobs associated with the life cycle of the car is still a job in the US and techinically Mexico is in america too.

I don't care if the low level assembly is done in Ohio, all the high paying jobs and profits go to Japan.

No one gives you **** about a Volvo being american because it is! It's a FORD brand and had been for at least 10 years. You are currently driving a FORD.
 
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Aussie build quality makes Detroit seem like Tokyo.

Remember the ill-fated Mercury Capri? That Pontiac GTO died a pretty quick death too, though not due to Holden build quality, since I think they were built here.
 
Well, I've been waiting for my call from Hank Paulson and, for some reason, it just hasn't come yet. So, if I need money to keep my business running, I guess I need to fly up to DC in a G-V, wear a $1,000 plus suit, have absolutely no plan to show why the money is needed, what it will be used for, how it will make the difference in keeping the industry solvent, and HOW THE TAXPAYER WILL GET PAID BACK. Is that the Detroit Executive presentation model?

Gee, what am I missing?

Best,

Dave
 
flyersfan31 said:
Aussie build quality makes Detroit seem like Tokyo.

Remember the ill-fated Mercury Capri? That Pontiac GTO died a pretty quick death too, though not due to Holden build quality, since I think they were built here.
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The new GTOs ie. 200x models, were built by Holden in Aus. As for Capris, you talking the 70s German junkers (although with the 2800 V6 they were screamers) that rusted out in a couple of years, or the more recent ones that were so ugly they made me divert my eyes?
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Well, I've been waiting for my call from Hank Paulson and, for some reason, it just hasn't come yet. So, if I need money to keep my business running, I guess I need to fly up to DC in a G-V, wear a $1,000 plus suit, have absolutely no plan to show why the money is needed, what it will be used for, how it will make the difference in keeping the industry solvent, and HOW THE TAXPAYER WILL GET PAID BACK. Is that the Detroit Executive presentation model?

Gee, what am I missing?
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"NOBODY could have forseen...."

"I have no idea what I did wrong."

Oh. You need to work a lotta late hours with the compensation committee of the board to lock in an extra $20 million bonus for yourself before you head to DC or bankruptcy court....especially if you've had the job for 3 weeks.
 
Missa said:
I don't care if the low level assembly is done in Ohio, all the high paying jobs and profits go to Japan.
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Wellllllll.... sort of. Honda has a design and engineering center in California where they develop new products.
 
mikea said:
"NOBODY could have forseen...."

"I have no idea what I did wrong."

Oh. You need to work a lotta late hours with the compensation committee of the board to lock in an extra $20 million bonus for yourself before you head to DC or bankruptcy court....especially if you've had the job for 3 weeks.
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I wonder if Detroit execs know how close a line they're walking between sympathy and moral outrage?
 
Henning said:
The new GTOs ie. 200x models, were built by Holden in Aus. As for Capris, you talking the 70s German junkers (although with the 2800 V6 they were screamers) that rusted out in a couple of years, or the more recent ones that were so ugly they made me divert my eyes?
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No, the falling-apart 1990s Australian-built convertibles, not the rusted out 1970s vinyl-roofed German ones.
 
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