The Garmin Rumor... Now Confirmed

I wonder if this thing will display traffic on a 496...?

I would use my iPad for all the IN goodies, but I'm just curious since I have a 496 also.
 
JC150 said:
Correct, both 978 and 1090 in, but only 978 out. Does anyone know when 1090 out matters? Do you need 1090 to fly int'l to places like the Bahamas?
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Looks to me like the only approved ADS-B out is on 1090 outside the USA. (Note: all the new European transponders being sold are are all 1090)
 
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I also have aspen avionics, and from what I was reading, it sounds like this will display traffic on the aspens. Anyone want to buy a 1 wk old GDL88? :)
 
I am in the process of installing a GDL88 and FS210 this week. I already have a GTX330 and 530W. My avionics guy said that:

Mine: 978 & 1090 in, 978 out.
New 345: 978 & 1090 in, 1090 out.

Also, the 345 effectively has a FS110 in it, not a 210 so with the 345 you can't import flight plans form ForeFlight to the Garmin, but you can display traffic.

The GDL88/FS210 combo is a bit cheaper, but then I already have a WAAS source. At some point I could upgrade to a 330ES and switch to 1090 out if I need it internationally.
 
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petrolero said:
The GDL-88 is also remote mounted in the tail and the installation is expensive and requires another antenna. I don't know yet if this one requires a new antenna (for ADS-B in) - guessing it will - but it shouldn't require ripping out the interior and running wire to the tail.

The biggest difference here is the arrival of DUAL band. Some of us need 1090 ES out. This one gives that while receiving dual band ADS-B in. That's fantastic.
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my GDL 88 is mounted behind the panel, copilots side.
 
JC150 said:
I've been wondering about this. What circumstances require the 1090ES out besides flying above FL180?

Do you need 1090 to fly to places like the Bahamas?
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Not yet. Today you can fly internationally with Mode C or S as far as I know. 1090 Mode S is already a standard for airliners. 1090 Mode ES is just an extension of that and is already in use by the airlines.

978 UAT is something of a bastard stepchild created by the FAA. Hopefully it will catch on but right now it's a US-only standard.

But the fact is that the FAA's 2020 mandate requires 1090 ES above 18k and that's why I (and many others) need it. It would shave the top off my airplane's certificated ceiling if I went with 978 UAT out. That would partially defeat the purpose of the turbo and chop some value off my plane.

So for high flyers, up to now, you had to install a 1090ES transponder AND if you want all the goodies (FIS-B, TIS- B ) to appear on your MFD, you had to buy a 1090 ES transponder AND also install a GDL-88, which is a 978 UAT ADS-B out device, and just disable the ADS-B out on the GDL-88. You'd be buying a GDL-88 and only using half of it. What a huge waste of money.

The GTX 345 eliminates that stupid "solution".

bnt83 said:
I don't think the new ones will require an additional antenna. I asked a Garmin dealer if install manuals were out yet and the answer was no.
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Hope not.
 
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Oh wow, did you guys also see that the wireless stuff also supports Foreflight as WELL as Garmin? I think Flightstream was ONLY Garmin.

With the GTX 345, customers can wirelessly receive ADS-B traffic and weather as well as precise GPS position data for use within mobile applications. Wireless compatibility initially includes the popular aera 795/796 portable aviation GPS and mobile applications, including Garmin Pilot and ForeFlight Mobile. SVT is enhanced by the AHRS within the transponder, displaying GPS-derived airspeed, altitude and vertical speed overlaid on a rich 3-D topographic landscape. Traffic is also transformed within Garmin Pilot, leveraging the Garmin exclusive TargetTrend and TerminalTraffic technologies.

That's awesome!
 
Caramon13 said:
Oh wow, did you guys also see that the wireless stuff also supports Foreflight as WELL as Garmin? I think Flightstream was ONLY Garmin.
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The FLightStream is Garmin or ForeFlight but the 210 adds bi-directional flight plan data whereas the 345 will not take data in from your iPad.
 
Fearless Tower said:
If you download the full size image and zoom in, NOTHING on that panel makes sense - completely doctored.

Engine instruments look like everything is running. Garmin display shows a track of 222 while the vertical card compass is pointing 020. Alternator switches are on, but the battery is off. Vacuum gauge shows 4.5" of vacuum, but both vacuum pumps are showing failure. No voltage on the bus or load showing for the alternators. I am sure that there are plenty more discrepancies...
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I wondered the same.
- Ldg gear switch down but no lights (red, amber or green)
- ASI reading 10 knots off
- both altimeters are off (and the right one is busted)
- engines at full power but with low fuel flow
- airplane seems to be on approach, descending (with engines at full power)
- landing rwy 22 with 8kt tailwind
- flying track 222 with 025 on the compass
- no flaps on 4-mile final
- 144 KIAS on approach inside the FAF :eek:
- props are deicing with 14C outside
- A/C blowing with 14C outside (brrrrr)
- no alt load and no bus voltage but deicing the props at 15 amps
- of course the alt switch on but batt switch off
- nav lights on during daytime but no landing lights for landing
- suction low
- dead chronometer
- dead engine monitor
- no altitude selected even though PFD shows 5000
- iPad shows 9:17am but PFD says 05:43LCL (plus ETA shows 17:25Z)
- iPad says 19.9nm to destination on 4-mile final
- iPad at 100% but no charging cord attached
- iPad shows WiFi with full signal, at 1500' :)
- the best part is: why is he pushing 5 on the Xpdr?? :D

Could this be a pretty bad sim shot?
 
Folks are saying you don't need dual antenna's with this new solution, ...

I thought the reason for dual's was to receive targets from above and ground stations from below with no blind spots. :dunno:
 
txflyer said:
Folks are saying you don't need dual antenna's with this new solution, ...



I thought the reason for dual's was to receive targets from above and ground stations from below with no blind spots. :dunno:
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I think they're referring to "dual-band" antennas. That'd be one problem, the shadows would be another. Shrug...?
 
denverpilot said:
I think they're referring to "dual-band" antennas. That'd be one problem, the shadows would be another. Shrug...?
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I'll be the first to admit I am ADS-B ignorant after reading volumes about it.

I'm going to wait until ADS-B Windows 11 comes out. :lol:
 
I'm not seeing a huge advantage right now out of this fanfare. If they had integrated a FS210 into the release, I think they would have a wining combo. A tremendous amount of GA pilots are using an EFB and to have two way connectivity would probably encourage many to buy the box. especially for the IFR guys.

But Garmin missed the mark on this release. Almost like pulling out on prom night before the big finish...like they just couldn't commit.

Wait for Avidyne to release something better and once again make Garmin looks like idiots for the second time in a year.
 
Let all the manufactures out match and under bid each other for the next 4ish years, after which presuming the "mandate" doesn't get pushed back, I'll wait for all those gadget boys and cirrus types to snatch up the latest and greatest "updating" and what not. I'll buy the box that is one notch behind the newest one, you know, the model which does 98% of what the new one does, but I'll take it at a steal because it's "old" :D
 
For those of us with G3X, "Compatibility is extended to the G3X™ Touch glass flight display and is expected in Q3 2016."
 
Unit74 said:
I'm not seeing a huge advantage right now out of this fanfare. If they had integrated a FS210 into the release, I think they would have a wining combo. A tremendous amount of GA pilots are using an EFB and to have two way connectivity would probably encourage many to buy the box. especially for the IFR guys.

But Garmin missed the mark on this release. Almost like pulling out on prom night before the big finish...like they just couldn't commit.

Wait for Avidyne to release something better and once again make Garmin looks like idiots for the second time in a year.
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That would be nice for GNS 430/530 users for sure. But GTNs are so easy that 2-way flight plan is not really needed. I do all the entry on the GTN having that copy to FF is a bonus.
 
So the GTX345 only has 1090 out right? Since 1090 counts for both international and domestic US, whats the point in anyone going the 978 out route? I don't see why anyone would buy the GDL88 anymore with this release.

On another note, does anyone know if the Bahamas has plans to require ADS-B out? If so I guess I'll have to get the GTX345. If not, my week old GDL88 will do the job the same as this transponder.

Would it make any sense to combine a GDL88 and a GTX345?
 
JC150 said:
So the GTX345 only has 1090 out right? Since 1090 counts for both international and domestic US, whats the point in anyone going the 978 out route? I don't see why anyone would buy the GDL88 anymore with this release.

On another note, does anyone know if the Bahamas has plans to require ADS-B out? If so I guess I'll have to get the GTX345. If not, my week old GDL88 will do the job the same as this transponder.

Would it make any sense to combine a GDL88 and a GTX345?
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To get 1090 ES you basically need a new transponder. So cost gets involved.

Many pilots, especially those without fancy-pants MFDs, don't want to go there. They'd rather keep their Mode C transponder and just add 978 UAT ADS-B out. The GDL-88 is certainly NOT the cheapest way to do that.

You can add a FreeFlight RANGR 978 solution for much cheaper than either a GDL-88 OR a GTX 335 -- with a built-in WAAS source. This does not require replacing your xpdr (although there is a 1090 ES RANGR transponder).

OK but if you're talking about Garmin users then yeah, I don't see why you'd go with the GDL-88 any longer. That the GDL-88 is 978 out only is a limitation.
 
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petrolero said:
To get 1090 ES you basically need a new transponder. So cost gets involved.

Many pilots, especially those without fancy-pants MFDs, don't want to go there. They'd rather keep their Mode C transponder and just add 978 UAT ADS-B out. The GDL-88 is certainly NOT the cheapest way to do that.

You can add a FreeFlight RANGR 978 solution for much cheaper than either a GDL-88 OR a GTX 335 -- with a built-in WAAS source. This does not require replacing your xpdr (although there is a 1090 ES RANGR transponder).

OK but if you're talking about Garmin users then yeah, I don't see why you'd go with the GDL-88 any longer. That the GDL-88 is 978 out only is a limitation.
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Don't the 978 devices allow you to use an anonymous 1200 transponder setting, which isn't available with the 1090 devices?
 
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Can you use 1090ES below 18,000'? Is a 1090ES solution sufficient for everywhere in US airspace?

John
 
jsstevens said:
Can you use 1090ES below 18,000'? Is a 1090ES solution sufficient for everywhere in US airspace?

John
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Yes. 1090 is the transponder frequency for Mode C and Mode S. 1090 ES just takes the data transmitted by Mode S and adds some extra data on it. That's the "extended squitter" or "extra stuff". It's good anywhere in the US.

978 UAT is not a transponder frequency exactly. It's only for ADS-B and isn't really part of ATCRBS as far as I understand it. It interacts only with ADS-B ground stations and other 978 UAT transmitters. So there are no 978 UAT transponders in the sense of the kind of transponders that can be interrogated by radar.
 
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jsstevens said:
Can you use 1090ES below 18,000'? Is a 1090ES solution sufficient for everywhere in US airspace?

John
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1090 is sufficient everywhere. IIRC the 978MHz freq was added for below 18,000ft as a way to combat frequency congestion with the amount of data being pushed out over 1090 by transponders and ADS-B.
 
bullwinkle said:
1090 is sufficient everywhere. IIRC the 978MHz freq was added for below 18,000ft as a way to combat frequency congestion with the amount of data being pushed out over 1090 by transponders and ADS-B.
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Thanks. So it sounds like if you ever think you'll need 1090ES, go 1090ES and skip the 978MHz.

John
 
bullwinkle said:
1090 is sufficient everywhere. IIRC the 978MHz freq was added for below 18,000ft as a way to combat frequency congestion with the amount of data being pushed out over 1090 by transponders and ADS-B.
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Yeah the GA community hated the ADS-B mandate then as now. So as a sop to GA, the FAA decided to offer us some goodies - like radar and traffic and weather (FIS-B and TIS-B ) They couldn't do that all over the 1090 band so they created 978 UAT just for us. Why it cannot be used above FL180 I think is because of the high closure rates that occur up there. They want 1090 talking directly to 1090 up there so no ground stations need to be involved in order for all aircraft to "see" each other.

jsstevens said:
Thanks. So it sounds like if you ever think you'll need 1090ES, go 1090ES and skip the 978MHz.

John
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Yes - for the ADS-B "out" part of the equation. All the goodies are transmitted on 978 UAT so just make sure you're able to receive 978 UAT "in" - as well as 1090 too. Dual band "in".

Both the GDL-88 and the GTX 345 are dual band in, but the 88 has UAT out and the 345 has the 1090ES out as we've discussed.
 
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The way I see it, there's no need for me to combine my GDL88 with a GTX345. If I wanted to do 1090 out for int'l flying, wouldn't it just be cheaper to get a GTX33ES and cancel the ADSB out on the GDL88?
 
JC150 said:
The way I see it, there's no need for me to combine my GDL88 with a GTX345. If I wanted to do 1090 out for int'l flying, wouldn't it just be cheaper to get a GTX33ES and cancel the ADSB out on the GDL88?
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That's pretty much what you had to do up until this announcement if you wanted "the goodies" displayed on your MFD. My own solution, now canceled, involved a 1090ES xpdr and a GDL-88 with the "out" disabled. It costs way more that way unless you already have a GDL-88 then it's just a transponder upgrade to the 33ES.
 
But if I went with a GTX345 I would save some weight. 1 box vs 2 boxes right?

Maybe the price of the GTX33ES will go down and I can get one for a good price...
 
JC150 said:
But if I went with a GTX345 I would save some weight. 1 box vs 2 boxes right?
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In my LSA that is a big deal. I'm excited that I'll be able to just replace my transponder with this one new device. Might add a pound or two in the same CG position so very little real change.
 
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