The Favorite and Least Favorite Cities:

[flyersfan31]

Paris has charm, but I wouldn't want to live there.

London, much less so, but I would love to live there. I've spent a lot of time wandering around (and, yes, imbibing in pubs). There's just a spirit in London that i never picked up in Paris. Yes, I speak French. It's just a, well, dare i say, je ne sais quoi about London. Given a choice, London for me, before NYC or SF or Paris or Berlin or (god forbid) Tokyo.

It helps that I enjoy chilly weather.

 

[flyersfan31]

And in case you're wondering, Beijing (Peking) is RIGHT OUT!!!!!!

 

[Ghery]

Live in a city? No thanks. But, I grew up in a college town with a total population of around 25,000, and that was when there were 17,000 students on campus. I much prefer living in a smaller "town" environment (and do).

Now, cities to visit?

1. London. I never run out of things to see or do there. I expect to spend a little time there in August.

2. Rome. Been there once, should spend a couple days there this July. Hot!

3. Paris. Visited in 1971, 1992 and twice more in the past 2 years. Interesting, but I think I've seen enough for now. Maybe in a few years again (this time with my wife).

4. Tokyo is a mess, but you can get around with the subways and trains. Osaka was easier.

5. Phoenix? Who are you kidding. As a friend who lives there had his daughter say the first summer they lived there, "Dad, you moved us to he!!". "But it's a dry heat! - So's an oven!"

6. Seattle? Rains all the time. Almost as much as it does where I live. They average 40 inches a year, we average 50. And it falls most of the year. Live there? Not on a bet. Bad enough sharing a state with them.

7. Portland? Outside of town in the suburbs maybe, but no way downtown.

8. Sacramento? When Davis or Auburn are available, and much less crowded?

9. San Jose? BTDT. Not again. It's a city!

10. Denver. Now, no way downtown, but outside of Denver itself? Sure. The 4 years we spent there weren't at all bad. The climate is great (rare to get below 0, rare to get over 100). Things to do. Lots of sun. Downside - bad roads (pot holes you can lose a small car in),

See the pattern? I don't like living in cities, but I'll visit now and then.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Live in a city? No thanks. But, I grew up in a college town with a total population of around 25,000, and that was when there were 17,000 students on campus. I much prefer living in a smaller "town" environment (and do).

See the pattern? I don't like living in cities, but I'll visit now and then.

I love Madison - It's a college town too, only with 45,000 students and about 3x that many permanent residents. But, it's still small enough to get from anywhere to anywhere in half an hour, I have 6 airports within a 1/2 hour drive, and the air is clean. We've got lakes, bike paths, golf courses, ski and snowmobile trails, etc. out the wazoo so there's never a lack of things to do. We have a symphony that's gotten pretty decent under the current director and lots of other shows that come to the Overture Center, the Coliseum, and other venues. We don't have any pro sports, but we do have the University of Wisconsin ones, and there's a lot of school spirit so the games are usually really fun. If you need pro sports, Green Bay (NFL) and Milwaukee (MLB) are both an easy drive and an easier flight. If you *really* have to get to a city for some reason, Chicago and Minneapolis are both reasonably close, but plenty far away that we don't get any of their negative effects.

When I think of cities I'd like to live in, I think of places like Lexington, KY, Raleigh, NC, Portland, OR, etc. Nothing really too big, with lots of green. I'd much rather be surrounded by grass and trees than concrete and steel.

 

[dmccormack]

I love Madison - It's a college town too, only with 45,000 students and about 3x that many permanent residents. But, it's still small enough to get from anywhere to anywhere in half an hour, I have 6 airports within a 1/2 hour drive, and the air is clean. We've got lakes, bike paths, golf courses, ski and snowmobile trails, etc. out the wazoo so there's never a lack of things to do. We have a symphony that's gotten pretty decent under the current director and lots of other shows that come to the Overture Center, the Coliseum, and other venues. We don't have any pro sports, but we do have the University of Wisconsin ones, and there's a lot of school spirit so the games are usually really fun. If you need pro sports, Green Bay (NFL) and Milwaukee (MLB) are both an easy drive and an easier flight. If you *really* have to get to a city for some reason, Chicago and Minneapolis are both reasonably close, but plenty far away that we don't get any of their negative effects.

When I think of cities I'd like to live in, I think of places like Lexington, KY, Raleigh, NC, Portland, OR, etc. Nothing really too big, with lots of green. I'd much rather be surrounded by grass and trees than concrete and steel.

If you think Madison is a "city" you haven't been to a city.

 

[RJM62]

< snip >

Put me down for New York City as Best.

No other "city" comes close --- spend enough time in Manhattan and every other "city" will seem a pretender...

< snip >

Thanks for the compliment from one who was born in NYC, moved around a lot, and moved back again for the time being (albeit to Queens, a part of NYC of which most Manhattanites are only vaguely aware).

I would agree with you, however, only if you're the sort who really likes cities to begin with. I happen not to, despite having lived most of my life in one city or another. I hate the high costs, the traffic, the lack of parking, the noise, the congestion, and most other things about city life.

But all that being said, NYC actually does a much better job of managing those and other "quality of life" issues than most other big cities I've been to. The traffic, though bad, is actually not so bad when one considers the population density. It moves a lot better than in many other cities I've been to. We also have excellent police, fire, and sanitation departments; great parks; a very good (albeit fiscally mismanaged) public transit system if you're transporting only your body and what you can carry; and plenty of things to do -- 24/7, if you're so inclined.

So if you're a real city slicker at heart and don't mind the weather extremes, New York City is probably as good as it gets.

Personally, though, I've had it with city life. I never really cared for it to begin with. I only stay because this is where my business is. But I'm ready to sell the tech support end of the business to the first potential buyer who comes along just so I can get out of the city and move someplace rural, stick a satellite antenna on the roof, and just do Web design.

If I had to live in a city but could choose which one, I think I would choose Syracuse. It has a bunch of colleges, so there's some nightlife and culture; you can get Chinese food or Pizza at 3:00 a.m.; there's high-speed Internet; the traffic's not horrible; and you can drive 20 minutes in any direction and be in the country, where you'll find plenty of little airports (along with venues for whatever outdoor activities you desire). Yeah, there's also the snow, but they do a good job dealing with it.

My choices for the worst cities would be Patterson and Newark NJ, Washington DC, Los Angeles CA, and Philadelphia PA.

-Rich

 

[jmaynard]

I love Madison - It's a college town too, only with 45,000 students and about 3x that many permanent residents.

Madison would be a great place to live if it weren't for the political climate...it's almost as bad as Berkeley. Between the college students and the politicians, it's hell for someone of my beliefs. The rest of Wisconsin calls it "Mad-town" for very good reason.

 

[jmaynard]

My choices for the worst cities would be Patterson and Newark NJ, Washington DC, Los Angeles CA, and Philadelphia PA.

I like Philadelphia a hell of a lot more than I like New York. The difference is the people. New Yorkers are loud and obnoxious. Philadelphians are loud, obnoxious, and friendly. When a New Yorker gives you a ration of grief, he means it. When a Philadelphian gives you a ration of grief, it's an opening gambit. Give it right back, and he'll laugh, clap you on the back, and buy you a beer.

 

[RJM62]

I like Philadelphia a hell of a lot more than I like New York. The difference is the people. New Yorkers are loud and obnoxious. Philadelphians are loud, obnoxious, and friendly. When a New Yorker gives you a ration of grief, he means it. When a Philadelphian gives you a ration of grief, it's an opening gambit. Give it right back, and he'll laugh, clap you on the back, and buy you a beer.

LOL, can't argue with you there, although you'll probably find those of us who live in the "outer boroughs" a bit more to your liking than the Manhattanites who consider the East and Hudson rivers to be the boundaries of civilization.

-Rich

 

[Ted]

LOL, can't argue with you there, although you'll probably find those of us who live in the "outer boroughs" a bit more to your liking than the Manhattanites who consider the East and Hudson rivers to be the boundaries of civilization.

Ahem... those are just the boundaries of New York. The rest of the city and state only exists to provide us money. Civilization exists elsewhere... I think.

 

[woodstock]

OK, to put this in a slightly different direction:

What would be your favorite "small city", and why? (I would consider Charleston or Savannah to be small cities).

 

[Pilawt]

We voted with our feet -- both of us born and raised in Southern California, lived there all our lives until the mid 1990's when we finally said, "Check, please -- we're done," and moved to the Northwest. We put up with the weather for the quality of life.

Manhattan in particular, and NYC in general, are crowded, unfriendly, dirty, smelly, and expensive.

I've only been to NYC twice in the last 20 years -- 1990 and 2006. The change was dramatic, now much cleaner and friendlier. Still expensive, though.

5. Phoenix? Who are you kidding. As a friend who lives there had his daughter say the first summer they lived there, "Dad, you moved us to he!!". "But it's a dry heat! - So's an oven!"

Our grandkids live in suburban Phoenix, that's why we have a second home there. I don't mind the weather (this last week was beautiful) except during monsoon season, when the heat is definitely not "dry". My beef with the Phoenix area is that it's so spread out that it's at least a thirty mile drive to go from anywhere to anywhere.

7. Portland? Outside of town in the suburbs maybe, but no way downtown.

Agreed. Downtown Portland reminds you of a European city. Unfortunately, so do the people. We're across the river, where it's more of a small-town feel, the government is run by grown-ups and there's no state income tax.

 

[John Baker]

Most folks who live in Los Angelese are convinced that it is a wonderful place to live. If you ever read 1984, you will begin to grasp the reasons why.

It's mostly due to the smog. Those poor retches breathe that stuff all day and all night. After time it starts to interrupt their synapse in their brains so that they think they are happy, much like Orwell's sewer workers, who actually loved being down there due to the drugs.

John

 

[flyersfan31]

Is Austin small? I've only been there once but it seemed like a nice place to live. Lots to do.

Charlottesville. Barely a city, but I like it.
Missoula - friendly people. Pretty country. Minor league baseball. A river runs through it. Yeah, I'd probably vote for Missoula. (Of course, I don't mind winter, otherwise it might slip a bit!)

 

[bockwoman3]

I have at some questions about this survey. Where did the survey come from? How many people were asked? Were only people who had actually lived in a city allowed to reply or just anyone, visitor or even anyone who had not even every been there?

I can easily go to a city and visit and think I know which ones are more desirable than others to live in but I don't really know until I've lived there. I can tell you which cities I visited that I THINK would be more desirable to live in...but unless I've lived in a very hot, low humidity, for instance, for I would say at least a year, how would I know I could live with that on a regular basis when I'm used to living in a city that has noticeable seasons?

I would venture to guess...only a guess and maybe, possibly slight chance of it being an educated guess... that many people who rated the cities had never even lived there and who knows if they'd even visited?

I think this survey sounds and smells awefully fishy to me.

 

[dmccormack]

OK, to put this in a slightly different direction:

What would be your favorite "small city", and why? (I would consider Charleston or Savannah to be small cities).

Quebec City, of course!

But if we're restricting this to US cities....

State College and Bozeman, MT are both college towns without the Uber-Justice-pompousity....

As much as I love the Mountain West, it's hard to leave the East Coast -- I like the Ocean and the centers of commerce within a day's drive or an hour's flight....

 

[KennyFlys]

I have at some questions about this survey. Where did the survey come from? How many people were asked? Were only people who had actually lived in a city allowed to reply or just anyone, visitor or even anyone who had not even every been there?

I can easily go to a city and visit and think I know which ones are more desirable than others to live in but I don't really know until I've lived there. I can tell you which cities I visited that I THINK would be more desirable to live in...but unless I've lived in a very hot, low humidity, for instance, for I would say at least a year, how would I know I could live with that on a regular basis when I'm used to living in a city that has noticeable seasons?

I would venture to guess...only a guess and maybe, possibly slight chance of it being an educated guess... that many people who rated the cities had never even lived there and who knows if they'd even visited?

I think this survey sounds and smells awfully fishy to me.

Those who question the validity of any information in the "free press" shall be flogged one less than the legal limit. The information was printed so it must be true and correct. It's source is irrelevant!

 

[LearDriver]

Most folks who live in Los Angelese are convinced that it is a wonderful place to live. If you ever read 1984, you will begin to grasp the reasons why.

It's mostly due to the smog. Those poor retches breathe that stuff all day and all night. After time it starts to interrupt their synapse in their brains so that they think they are happy, much like Orwell's sewer workers, who actually loved being down there due to the drugs.

John

Don't forget about our uninvited guest workers that are bringing all of the worst aspects of Mexico to California.

 

[KennyFlys]

Don't forget about our uninvited guest workers that are bringing all of the worst aspects of Mexico to California.

California doesn't need guest workers to mess it up. They have a state legislature.

 

[flyersfan31]

Don't forget about our uninvited guest workers that are bringing all of the worst aspects of Mexico to California.

I thought he was from Austria?

 

[LearDriver]

California doesn't need guest workers to mess it up. They have a state legislature.

I can't argue with that one at all. They are quite communist leaning here. It just depresses me. god I hate living here.

 

[LearDriver]

I thought he was from Austria?

You mean our Republicrat Governor?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Madison would be a great place to live if it weren't for the political climate...it's almost as bad as Berkeley. Between the college students and the politicians, it's hell for someone of my beliefs. The rest of Wisconsin calls it "Mad-town" for very good reason.

Ummm... Political climate? I can live wherever, and not even notice any "political climate." It's not like anyone's knocking on my door telling me I have to join up with the Red Team or the Blue Team. I'm free to believe different things than my neighbors...

 

[flyingcheesehead]

If you think Madison is a "city" you haven't been to a city.

Right. And did I mention that one of the things I like about Madison is that people here don't have attitudes?

Madison is all the "city" I'll ever need (and I actually do not live within city limits). I lived in Milwaukee for about 10 years, and that was at the upper limit of tolerable size for me. Traffic is my #1 complaint about larger cities. Why you big-city folks like it so much, I'll never know.

Now, if living in a "city" is so great, tell me a single big city where the following are true:

get from anywhere to anywhere in half an hour
have 6 airports within a 1/2 hour drive
the air is clean.

 

[KennyFlys]

Ummm... Political climate? I can live wherever, and not even notice any "political climate." It's not like anyone's knocking on my door telling me I have to join up with the Red Team or the Blue Team. I'm free to believe different things than my neighbors...

I guarantee you'd stand out as one or the other in some communities. A republican in Boulder, CO is a rare thing.

 

[flyersfan31]

I like Madison a lot. Great place. Beautiful. I'm hardly a left-winger - I just tune that stuff out.

I thought we were talking about small cities. It's small. So? Great quality of life.

 

[jmaynard]

I guarantee you'd stand out as one or the other in some communities. A republican in Boulder, CO is a rare thing.

So is a Republican in Austin, or a Republican in Madison.

 

[KennyFlys]

So is a Republican in Austin, or a Republican in Madison.

Yep, ya don't see me espouse my opinions much outside the airport where I depend on those wealthy, conservative folks whom I want to see taxed less and keep their money to spend toward my direction.

 

[bockwoman3]

Ahem... those are just the boundaries of New York. The rest of the city and state only exists to provide us money. Civilization exists elsewhere... I think.

Some people just don't get out much...don't have a clue there's something out there much better than what's in hand. HeHe

 

[Everskyward]

What would be your favorite "small city", and why? (I would consider Charleston or Savannah to be small cities).

The only "small city" I've lived in is Boise, Idaho. It was fine, but much smaller and more isolated than what I was accustomed to. Heck, when I moved there in the mid 1980s I was shocked that they didn't have a mall! I'm sure they do now, though, not that I would care any more.

I've lived mostly in the outskirts of big cities, New York, St. Louis and Denver. I've also lived in the city of San Francisco (where I am as I type), which I could do again although it's much different than where I live now.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I guarantee you'd stand out as one or the other in some communities. A republican in Boulder, CO is a rare thing.

And are said Republicans in Boulder or Austin required to have a big red "R" tattooed on their forehead or what? I mean really, how can you tell?

I know this is a very blue area, but I'm sure we have plenty of Republicans here too, and I'm sure I've seen plenty of them, and I'm sure I haven't noticed a darn thing different about them.

 

[rottydaddy]

I have to say, after living my whole life within 50 miles of the place and having lived and worked there for long periods, that I both cherish and despise NYC equally. It's that kind of city. God knows i can't afford to live there anymore... well, I could, but I don't want to spend 80% of my income on rent. etc.

Hoboken, NJ, the "Mile Square City" was really nice when I lived there... post-recession, but still very ethnic-neighborhood-ish, with loads of parking space and cheap rents.

The real estate boom of the late 80s was very good for a lot of folks in tHoboken, but of course the death knell for the character of that city.
It all went to hell when they tore down the Maxwell House plant- I used to be able to get a caffeine buzz just walking around, on days they were cleaning the tanks or whatever. And it was just an awesome symbol of Hoboken's incredibly industrious past (more people lived there during WWII than do now).

Then the "bridge and tunnel" lunkheads from the western NJ counties started going out to party there instead of "the city" (Manhattan). "Old man" bars, where a guy could cash his paycheck and have a bite and a few beers and shoot some pool, started to vanish. Then rents skyrocketed.

Now it's way too crowded and way too expensive, and if you're looking for a parking spot at any time at all, and there is a car in front of you, you will not get a spot, because they are looking too.

But it still has over 50 bars packed into that square mile (still slightly more than churches), some great restaurants, and very nice little parks. Also, it seems the most beautiful women who work in Manhattan live there.


Went to college in Syracuse, NY- very nice up on the hill, but downtown was pretty uninspiring, especially with a foot of snow on top of a six inches of slush covering ice chunks resting atop three inches of rock-hard ice. With freezing rain blowing sideways at 20 knots.
Winter is brutal and unrelenting there; the beautiful summers just make it worse.


In my travels, I've rarely stayed anywhere long enough for the novelty to wear off, but although SoCal is a bit... weird for this NJ boy, I really enjoyed my 8 weeks in San Diego. The weather, the scale of the city, the food, the surrounding areas... I could get sick of living anywhere, but it'd take me a long time in SD.

New Orleans... forget its vulnerability to hurricanes, and it is a great place to visit. My first time there was when I flew myself all the way from NJ to Lakefront in a 172 and stayed for a week. Can't find a bad meal or a lousy band in that town...and it really is dripping with charm and mystique. I like it. Been back twice since then. But I couldn't live there; I don't have a clue how I could earn a living there.

I wasn't too crazy about Chicago, though, and not just because I've been there mostly in winter...just didn't grab me. But the subway system there is like the Orient Express compared to the NYC system. And you don't have to go far from downtown to find yourself in an unlikely pilot's paradise... I really enjoyed flying out there and the fine pilot-folk I met.


I could go on and on... but I think my personal "worst" prize has to go to the only big town I've visited outside the US: Tijuana. A huge, parasite-infested tourist trap. I'm sure Mexico has a lot to offer, but it ain't there. How good a city it is seems to depend on how drunk you are, but of course the next day you realize it was horrible.

 

[dmccormack]

Right. And did I mention that one of the things I like about Madison is that people here don't have attitudes?

Madison is all the "city" I'll ever need (and I actually do not live within city limits). I lived in Milwaukee for about 10 years, and that was at the upper limit of tolerable size for me. Traffic is my #1 complaint about larger cities. Why you big-city folks like it so much, I'll never know.

Now, if living in a "city" is so great, tell me a single big city where the following are true:

My oh my -- finally....

::Queue swelling symphonic music::

Madison... thy name shall henceforth be ---- Utopia!

 

[Ted]

And are said Republicans in Boulder or Austin required to have a big red "R" tattooed on their forehead or what? I mean really, how can you tell?

I know this is a very blue area, but I'm sure we have plenty of Republicans here too, and I'm sure I've seen plenty of them, and I'm sure I haven't noticed a darn thing different about them.

They're the ones driving Dodge Ram pickups (usually with a diesel, and not towing anything behidn them) to go buy something at Cabela's as opposed to you liberal hippies who drive Volvos and shop at Whole Foods.

For those who aren't aware, about 4 years ago there was a study on figuring out who to target for political campaigns, i.e. who was most likely to vote Repubican vs. Democrat. The findings were that if you drove a Dodge Ram and shopped at Cabela's, you were most likely to vote Republican. If you drove a Volvo and shopped a Whole Foods, Democrat. I found this study particularly amusing, as at the time I drove a Dodge Ram (didn't shop at Cabela's) and was definitely more likely to vote Republican. By contrast, the mother of the girl I was dating at the time drove a Volvo, shopped at Whole Foods, and would never, ever, including with a gun pointed to her head, vote anything but Democrat.

 

[KennyFlys]

And are said Republicans in Boulder or Austin required to have a big red "R" tattooed on their forehead or what? I mean really, how can you tell?

I know this is a very blue area, but I'm sure we have plenty of Republicans here too, and I'm sure I've seen plenty of them, and I'm sure I haven't noticed a darn thing different about them.

If ya spend a bit of time in conversation with folks, you can tell. I lived in a canyon above Boulder and it was evident with a few of our neighbors we interacted with.

 

[flyersfan31]

My oh my -- finally....

::Queue swelling symphonic music::

Madison... thy name shall henceforth be ---- Utopia!

Awwwright you wiseacre city-slicker, ease up on Madison!!!

It really is a nice place. The lake is right there, State Street Brats does a great job of clogging arteries. Costs are low, traffic low, beer plentiful. I like it.

I'm with Kent - not a big fan of traffic. Frankly, if I had a choice of where to live it would be Lebanon, NH.

 

[jmaynard]

And are said Republicans in Boulder or Austin required to have a big red "R" tattooed on their forehead or what? I mean really, how can you tell?

Just wait for them to say something and see whether it makes sense.

I would no more get into a substantive discussion in Madison or Austin than I would on here, and for the same reason: too likely to get run out on a rail for holding the wrong political opinions.

 

[ReverendSlappy]

Not to make it too political, but I don't think anybody actually gets an unwelcome feeling anywhere because of anything to do with the type of political views they have; rather, I think it's because of the extremism of them. What it actually is is that political extremism of any variety really only has a welcome home in a precious few places: They're called "compounds."

And there are some kinds of attitudes that just aren't welcome anywhere. To wit:

Just wait for them to say something and see whether it makes sense.

...

ANYway... I'm sure it's not a popular opinion here, but I have to cast my vote (or dozen) for Chicago. Despite our aviation-hatin' scumbag of a mayor, rampant corruption, and mind-altering winters, it really has a lot going for it. You have all the benefits of any other major global city: Art, culture, commerce, workable (though far from perfect) public transportation, cuisine... Everything. You can get everything in Chicago that you can get in New York or London -- just maybe not in the same amounts or of the exact same variety.

I could go on and on... But while it's expensive and the traffic can suck, of the places I've been, nowhere comes close to matching Chicago -- especially in the summertime.

 

[dmccormack]

Not to make it too political, but I don't think anybody actually gets an unwelcome feeling anywhere because of anything to do with the type of political views they have; rather, I think it's because of the extremism of them. What it actually is is that political extremism of any variety really only has a welcome home in a precious few places: They're called "compounds."

One person's extremism is another's deeply held, core beliefs.

What makes same acceptable in a pluralistic society is the ability of the true believer to still function within, contribute to, and commerce with the others.

ANYway... I'm sure it's not a popular opinion here, but I have to cast my vote (or dozen) for Chicago. Despite our aviation-hatin' scumbag of a mayor, rampant corruption, and mind-altering winters, it really has a lot going for it. You have all the benefits of any other major global city: Art, culture, commerce, workable (though far from perfect) public transportation, cuisine... Everything. You can get everything in Chicago that you can get in New York or London -- just maybe not in the same amounts or of the exact same variety.

I could go on and on... But while it's expensive and the traffic can suck, of the places I've been, nowhere comes close to matching Chicago -- especially in the summertime.

Full evidence thou hast gone off the deep end, sir...

 

[dmccormack]

Awwwright you wiseacre city-slicker, ease up on Madison!!!

It really is a nice place. The lake is right there, State Street Brats does a great job of clogging arteries. Costs are low, traffic low, beer plentiful. I like it.

I'm with Kent - not a big fan of traffic. Frankly, if I had a choice of where to live it would be Lebanon, NH.

I'm as un-city-slicker as one can be on the East coast -- I can't see another house from mine, have two horses, cut my own wood, and shoot clays in my back yard.