The DA-40, Tim's take

timwinters

timwinters

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So, I have a neighbor who owns a 2001 DA-40 but who isn't a pilot. They bought it with the intention of leaning how to fly but haven't gotten to it (i.e. too many toys syndrome). The plane's only had 4 hours put on it in the two years they've owned it.

So, they called me a few months ago and asked if I'd fly it for them. Hmmm...the engine in the 182 is scattered around 5 or 6 states right now. Okay. Sure. Twist my arm.

So, I have about 10 hours in it so far and here's my first blush opinion (and those who have far more hours, feel free to "show me the way" if some of my "cons" can be remedied).

Pros:

* It's a sweet flying airplane, very gentle, very forgiving.

* It doesn't float badly at all when landing...I thought it would since it's a "slick plane"

* The visibility is outstanding (but I can't imagine flying it in ^ 80dF temps)

* I like the steam gauge / VM 1000 combination. The best of both worlds.

Cons:

* The seats are hard as hell. I'm quite uncomfortable after an hour or less of flying and can't imagine going on a multiple hour XC in it. They have a couple of memory foam pads and using one helps but it puts my head very close to the canopy and far above the panel...making an effective instrument scan difficult. Though I guess I'll get used to it.

*The headset jacks are in a really bizarre location...the back of the center console. I either route the cord behind the seat or behind my back. If the cord isn't run behind the seat then it interferes with the trim wheel. Maybe this plane is why LightSpeed came out with their cordless headsets! ;)

* Speaking of trim wheel, it's in an awkward position. Too far behind me to comfortably operate...once I get the headset cord out of the way. I wipe out the copilot's cheek with my elbow any time I go for the trim.

* The rudder pedals have a weird semicircular rod that protrudes immediately adjacent to my feet. This protuberance sometimes gets in the way of my big water ski feet.

* it's a lot tighter than it looks. There's not much shoulder room when my CFI (a 6' woman) was next to me (hence the reason I elbow her when working the trim wheel).

* the throttle/prop/mixture controls are tiny and tightly packed as compared to what I'm used to. I guess I'll get used to it but, man, they're so close together that it's a thumb and one finger operation to work any of them.

I guess that's about it. I really enjoy flying the airplane...especially for the cost of fuel only...but I don't know that I'd ever own one. That is, unless my frustrations are a result of my ignorance and I'm enlightened by those here who are more Diamond savvy than I.
 
That's a sweet deal you've got there. I only have a few hours in one but I agree about the seats and the tightness. I wanted out after an hour and a half but the visibility was amazing and almost made up for it. It was the middle of winter so I didn't have any issues with the oven effect but I can see how that would be an issue in the summer.

Thanks for the write up!
 
It's always a sweet deal when you can fly a plane for fuel money. I'm the same way about a DA-40, it's a good plane with uncomfortable seats that just leaves me under impressed overall. Just too many little things that aren't quite right.
 
Thanks for the post,was thinking of getting a checkout in one. For those times I need three seats.
 
frfly172 said:
Thanks for the post,was thinking of getting a checkout in one. For those times I need three seats.
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If you need three seats for a trip of 2-3 hrs each way, a 172 is a more comfortable plane to use.
 
Thanks for the report Tim. I've sat backseat in one for 10 minutes once (for repositioning). Wonder how they would do on a long xc for comfort, turbulence stability.
 
That's a great deal. I'd hope the guy never gets a license!

This guy is why I usually chime in on the "hey, I have 5 hrs. What kind of plane should I buy?" threads. Get a license first then buy a plane.

I like the looks of the DA40.
 
I once taxied behind a DA20 on a rough taxiway and was amazed at how long those wings are, and how they were bouncing and flexing during that bumpy taxiing :eek:
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Thanks for the report Tim. I've sat backseat in one for 10 minutes once (for repositioning). Wonder how they would do on a long xc for comfort, turbulence stability.
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I had it out thanksgiving morning and there were some pretty significant winds. At 3000' it was blowing 40 kts out of the south. It was surprisingly docile. I thought those long winds would be far far worse.
 
JCranford said:
That's a great deal. I'd hope the guy never gets a license!

This guy is why I usually chime in on the "hey, I have 5 hrs. What kind of plane should I buy?" threads. Get a license first then buy a plane.

I like the looks of the DA40.
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Actaully, I too bought a plane and then learned how to fly. A beautiful '57 straight tail 172. Shoulda never sold it. It made learning to fly far cheaper---and more fun because I flew a lot once I was soloed---than had I been renting.
 
It's also a a bit uncomfortable in turbulence due to the low wing loading. The hard seats can be fixed by some cushy seat covers. I think it's a sweet flying plane as well. Cruises almost as fast as the Arrow with a lower fuel burn.
 
I have a 2001 DA40. I love it (I've owned it since new - about 750 hours in it). The seats are hard (but 3/4 inch of memory foam has helped a lot). My legs are usually limited to 3 hours or so by bladder capacity, so the seats aren't a killer for me. I did fly 9 hours in a single day once, and my butt was sore.

Headset cords are routed along the center console forward, not an issue.

I live in TX, so summer flying is a challenge (for 9 months a year). My "solution" is to get to altitude fast, and wear a hat. I also did some modifications to the panel vents which increased the airflow through them (and made them quieter as well).

Trim wheel isn't a problem for me, my aircraft has an autopilot (electric trim on the stick).

My feet are narrow, no problem with the rudder pedals.

My butt is narrow, so I fit in OK. My son (copilot) is skinny.

I haven't noticed any issue with the engine controls.

Steve
 
I like mine, but I'm not a big dude, and the newer models (including my 07 xl) have a slightly roomier canopy arrangement. The seats are a bit hard but haven't been a problem on 2.5 hour legs.

Keeping some pressure on the rudders helps reduce tail wagging in turbulence but regardless it's less than I've observed in Grumman/Americans or the long-body Mooneys I've flown.

I use my forearm to turn the trim wheel.

My wife is short, but with large friends things get tight. I'll have to find another way to impress tall women.

I have noticed the same issue with the rudder pedals - no snow boots in this airplane.

We're in annual now and I'm finding that parts support is tough. Diamond won't sell directly to owners; you have to go through a service center, which seem to be small shops and rarely answer the phone, understandably.
 
Oh yeah, the access to the cabin is incredible. Easy to get in/out and will fit a lot of stuff. Wheels off, two full-sized bicycles will fit fine; I'm working on a rack to set up two road bikes standing up.
 
No electric trim control on the control stick? There was in the Diamond DA20 I learned in.
 
Mine has it (garmin autopilot) but I prefer manual trim for some reason. I'm a stick-and-rudder guy at heart, which is a strong point of the diamonds IMO.
 
The one I flew (IIRC 2008 model) had AP, electric trim on stick and manual trim. The trim works independent of the AP so no idea why people are mentioning the two as though they are inseparable.
 
scottfromboston said:
Oh yeah, the access to the cabin is incredible. Easy to get in/out .
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Agree completely...for the pilot anyway. In this one there is no glareshield hand hold on the copilot's side...only on the pilot's side. And this made a huge difference. My instructor had a far more difficult time with ingress/egress than I did because of this.

PPC1052 said:
No electric trim control on the control stick? There was in the Diamond DA20 I learned in.
Click to expand...

Nope, no autopilot. The only trim in this one is the wheel. (at least I sure don't think the stick had a trim switch, I'll have to double check).

One other thing I forgot to mention...

I'm a tall guy but not really a big guy (6'-2", 200#), my instructor is a tall but not big women (over 6' and 180).

Both of us thought the seatbelts were the most difficult/uncoordinated/buried belts that we've ever had to try to latch. I guess if you're 21 and flexible enough to tuck one foot behind your head, they're okay. But for the two of us who are older and far less flexible, they were a PITA. Maybe I'll figure out the trick but the design of the latch is really weird (eccentrically so) and tucked so tightly beside/behind you that it always took a few tries to get it to snap without torquing out to one side.

I guess I just thought that a plane that was mfgr'ed in 2001 would be far more ergonomically correct. I understand my 1958 model's shortcomings...ergonomics likely wasn't even a word yet. And, actually, I find my old skylane to be far more of a "everything is in its place, accessible and comfortable" than the DA-40.

I'll be flying it a lot more. Maybe I'll grow accustomed to the idiosyncrasies and/or realize that at least some of the issues are really me...we'll see.
 
timwinters said:
I'm a tall guy but not really a big guy (6'-2", 200#), my instructor is a tall but not big women (over 6' and 180).
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Make sure to check W/B. I had an instructor that I think was 230ish IIRC and we required ~40lbs in back as ballast.
 
timwinters said:
Nope, no autopilot. The only trim in this one is the wheel. (at least I sure don't think the stick had a trim switch, I'll have to double check).
Click to expand...
there was no a/p in my DA20, so that isn't necessarily determinative. Given the weird location of the wheel, I'd be a little surprised if it wasn't just a back up.
 
Jaybird180 said:
The one I flew (IIRC 2008 model) had AP, electric trim on stick and manual trim. The trim works independent of the AP so no idea why people are mentioning the two as though they are inseparable.
Click to expand...

In the DA40, you can't get electric trim installed without the autopilot. The autopilot does not have to be engaged to use the electric trim, but it has to be installed (and the CB has to be in).

Steve
 
Jaybird180 said:
Make sure to check W/B. I had an instructor that I think was 230ish IIRC and we required ~40lbs in back as ballast.
Click to expand...

Yes, indeed, we're carrying 50#. Could have gotten by with 25# but 50 puts us more centered.
 
BTW...

One more good thing about using memory foam to soften the seats, it gives me a little more legroom, which is none too ample in this plane for my 6'-2" frame.
 
What type of foam, specifically? The seat in the 162 gets uncomfortable after a couple of hours, too... Maybe something like this?
 
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That looks about right. I'm not sure what's in the diamond...they were there...I used one.
 
Henning said:
In the worst possible location. It should be on the side of the throttle.
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Why? What control force feedback does one feel through the throttle? Besides, stick-mounted electric trim control is hardly unique to the Diamonds.
 
DJTorrente said:
Why? What control force feedback does one feel through the throttle? Besides, stick-mounted electric trim control is hardly unique to the Diamonds.
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It's having it on the top of the stick. When I reconfigure, I am pushing hard enough on the stick that I cannot reach the switch on top of the stick with that hand, which means I need to use my other hand to work the switch, when it should be working the throttle. If you put the trim switch on the side of the throttle, you can now adjust the trim and throttle at the same time with one hand, while flying the plane with the other. One could also put the trim switch on the front of the grip. On top is the dumbest place.
 
DA40s are nice, but not revolutionary. To be honest, I was so excited to fly one the first time I was a bit disappointed. It is a bit more spacious than a 172/PA28 for someone my size, but not much. It is a bit faster than the same, but not much. Access is great with the big doors, but I've been living with Pipers so long I don't NEED that.

If I were buying new in the 180hp, 4 seat (three passengers by weight) class, it would be my choice over the PA28 or C172. Everything else equal, it wins. But for a given amount of cash, I can normally find something more capable, versatile, and comfortable than a DA40 without going overboard on the operating costs.

If you want something more modern than a 50s/60s era design, it is a good option. I'm just happy with old airplanes!
 
Henning said:
So, why would one choose a DA-40 over a SR-20 or vice versa?
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New sr20s are probably better, but then they dont hold their money as well as a sr22. So better off getting a 22. Used i think da40s are better. G1000 isnt available in cirrus till 08 and da40s seem to hold their value better(if purchased used). And i think you have to buy a cirrus after chute pack. I like both, sr20 is more comfortable and i think faster. The 01 sr20 i test flew did 160 knots at 3500'. It was moving. Probably should have bought it for 105k with 2k hours and factory new engine but it needed a chute in 3 years, and rnav pos was broken.
 
timwinters said:
Yes, indeed, we're carrying 50#. Could have gotten by with 25# but 50 puts us more centered.
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With the Garmin equipment, there's a substantial stack underneath the "hat rack" and this isn't as much of an issue.

We have TIS-B and with this additional box back there combined with the three-blade carbon/wood prop you need a balance weight on the engine, which we removed when we went to the two-blade metal Hartzell.

My partners took the conservative route with the Hartzell but I think we would go with the two-blade composite in hindsight.
 
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