The audacity of some A&Ps

[SkyDog58]

Am I the only one who really wouldn't care? it's just a 50 year old hunk of metal. It can be replaced. This is what insurance is for.

Bad form? Yeah. But I'm not going to raise my blood pressure or lose any sleep over it.

You really wouldn't care if someone flew your plane without your permission? I really find that hard to believe.

 

[Flying Viking]

Perhaps suing in small claims court for the uncompensated time on the airframe and engine would be the way to go.

A tort action for conversion is probably all that he could do, and he still has to prove actual damages (which I assume would be nominal in this case - wear and tear on airframe, engine and prop, plus gas/oil).

Nevertheless, he can put that judgment up on the web, for everybody to read...

 

[SkyDog58]

In the past I have flown my own plane with the mechanic on board for flight after work has been done. I strongly disagree with your position.

I guess I need to either use more emoticons or quit using humor and sarcasm as it seems not to be well understood on here.

I mean seriously, I really thought pilots were sharper than the average internet trolling moron.

 

[poadeleted21]

You really wouldn't care if someone flew your plane without your permission? I really find that hard to believe.

I've had 3 "steady" A&Ps over the years and no, I wouldn't care at all. Wouldn't really care if the occasional "strange" A&P I've had to deal with from time to time did either. No more than I would care if I dropped my truck off for an oil change and the guys changing the oil took it to pick up lunch. I got insurance if they bang it up. It's just a toy/tool.

 

[Stevel]

That is how the owner feels about it, he got the tail wheel he was after, the plane was not damaged, and he got satisfaction, of kicking his a$$ for using the aircraft with out permission, and then trying to lie about it.

I LOVE a story with a happy ending.

 

[Henning]

In the past I have flown my own plane with the mechanic on board for flight after work has been done. I strongly disagree with your position.

It really depends on the customer. We had a couple of customers that wanted me to fly the plane before they picked it up from maintain or have me deliver it, so I would. Some want a ride with, so I would. Some don't want anything, so I wouldn't. Every deal is unique.

 

[Luigi]

I guess I need to either use more emoticons or quit using humor and sarcasm as it seems not to be well understood on here.

I mean seriously, I really thought pilots were sharper than the average internet trolling moron.

Yowser!!!!!! I think I have just been insulted!

 

[Henning]

You really wouldn't care if someone flew your plane without your permission? I really find that hard to believe.

If they left it like they found it or better, I wouldn't be greatly put out. An airplane is just stuff, replaceable stuff at that. You don't really need to own stuff, you just need to be able to use it now and again for the most part, even a car.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

If they left it like they found it or better, I wouldn't be greatly put out. An airplane is just stuff, replaceable stuff at that. You don't really need to own stuff, you just need to be able to use it now and again for the most part, even a car.

Most people would call using stuff without the owner's permission stealing.

 

[Henning]

Most people would call using stuff without the owner's permission stealing.

Except there was a bailment agreement, so it's not. Yes,met here was a violation in etiquette, but there are no real damages incurred. Would I be happy about it? Of course not, but it's not something I'd let consume me either; I'd cause myself more damages with stress than he did.

 

[MAKG1]

Most people would call using stuff without the owner's permission stealing.

And trust is a really big deal with mechanics.

Would you bet your life on his work if you can't trust him to ask you if he can use the damn plane? Wrenching, and especially diagnosis, is all about the details.

 

[Henning]

And trust is a really big deal with mechanics.

Would you bet your life on his work if you can't trust him to ask you if he can use the damn plane? Wrenching, and especially diagnosis, is all about the details.

I'd trust him more than the mechanic who won't fly in a plane he works on....

 

[Bob Noel]

I wonder if the A&P would be OK with some pilot/customer borrowing his tool chest without prior permission.

 

[Palmpilot]

I guess I need to either use more emoticons or quit using humor and sarcasm as it seems not to be well understood on here.

I mean seriously, I really thought pilots were sharper than the average internet trolling moron.

If it's any comfort, I didn't need an emoticon to get that you were being sarcastic!

 

[weilke]

Audacity? I think it is the epitome of aviation maintenance professionalism. As an A&P, I am a big proponent of thorough operational checks before returning an aircraft to the owner/operator. Thus an installation of a new tailwheel on an aircraft such as a 185 would require takeoffs and landings on the various surfaces that the aircraft might operate from. This means paved, grass, dirt, gravel and at least a couple of sandbars. The guy was obviously just doing his due diligence. Give him a break.

Are you insured to fly the owners plane ?

 

[Henning]

Are you insured to fly the owners plane ?

From the owner's perspective, yes, that is why he has insurance; as long as he has it. His insurance will make him whole and subrogate the shop/mechanic. It's all part of the coverage.

 

[docmirror]

Again - people are missing the point of this. It's not about his ability, or qualifications, or time used, or any of that shyte.

He did not ASK first. He did not TELL the owner afterward. Trust in my A&P to fly my plane? Sure(when he's sober), as long we have a chat about it before he goes. If I drop it off for repairs or improvement, that is NOT implied consent for him to go joy riding around with the fam, take stuff out, put his stuff in and otherwise treat it like he owns the damn thing.

You want to take a plane somewhere? Rent one, charter one, or buy one yourself.

 

[flyingron]

From the owner's perspective, yes, that is why he has insurance; as long as he has it. His insurance will make him whole and subrogate the shop/mechanic. It's all part of the coverage.

Actually, I've had policies that specifically DISCLAIMED coverage for mechanics flying my aircraft. You need to read your policy carefully on this. Fortunately, for most uses (test flights after maintenance, etc...) most reputable mechanics have appropriate policies to cover that.

 

[weilke]

From the owner's perspective, yes, that is why he has insurance; as long as he has it. His insurance will make him whole and subrogate the shop/mechanic. It's all part of the coverage.

That's a maybe. If the mechanic doesn't qualify under the open pilot warranty, they just say sorry, not our problem.

 

[SkyDog58]

If it's any comfort, I didn't need an emoticon to get that you were being sarcastic!

Thanks. I thought it was obvious but the writer always does. Still the part about landing on all of those various surfaces would be rather absurd if it wasn't meant as sarcasm. Yeah, I'd take a pilot's airplane and land on sandbars without his permission.

...This means paved, grass, dirt, gravel and at least a couple of sandbars. ...

 

[SkyDog58]

.... Trust in my A&P to fly my plane? Sure(when he's sober), .....

We rarely are you know.

 

[James331]

I wonder if the A&P would be OK with some pilot/customer borrowing his tool chest without prior permission.

Right.


It's just "stuff" right

 

[wilkersk]

It seemed to be pretty common, in my experience, that the guy with the biggest taco-wagon on the hangar floor (the one with "don't touch", and "I won't touch your wife, so please don't touch my tools" stickers on them) were the ones that were the worst at assuming I wouldn't mind them "borrowing" my friggin stuff.

 

[docmirror]

We rarely are you know.

No disrespect to A&Ps in general, which is why I said MY....

I'm sure most are stand-up moral and virtuous folk. But - my guy likes Bud, lots and lots of Bud. On any day that ends in 'y'.

 

[SkyDog58]

It seemed to be pretty common, in my experience, that the guy with the biggest taco-wagon on the hangar floor (the one with "don't touch", and "I won't touch your wife, so please don't touch my tools" stickers on them) were the ones that were the worst at assuming I wouldn't mind them "borrowing" my friggin stuff.

Oh.... I know the type.

 

[Tom-D]

I don't borrow tools, specially power tools, I break them, and must buy the owner a new tool that I should have bought for myself to start with.

Hand tools, If I need it, I should buy it. I'll need it again.

Lots of new power tools this month, A new Milwaukee sawsal, and a hammer drill. a new level, razor square.

 

[SkyDog58]

Just saw a story on NBC news about a car dealership employee who put 200 miles on a customer's car doing a test drive that included going to his house, going shopping, going to McDonalds and more. It was all caught on the car's dash cam. Employee was fired.

 

[Unbeliever]

Except there was a bailment agreement, so it's not.

Unauthorized use during bailment can constitute conversion (which is a fancy term for "stealing").

NY State, for example, it is a misdemeanor under Penal Law 165.05(2).

2. Having custody of a vehicle pursuant to an agreement between himself or another and the owner thereof whereby he or another is to perform for compensation a specific service for the owner involving the maintenance, repair or use of such vehicle, he intentionally uses or operates the same, without the consent of the owner, for his own purposes in a manner constituting a gross deviation from the agreed purpose;

That was just the first link in the first page for the term "bailment unauthorized use"

--Carlos V.