That good old ‘Vacating’ topic

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

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Dave Taylor
Does anyone have the official, regulatory, indisputable reference telling pilots when it is mandatory to report vacating an altitude?
Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to make this a two-post thread.
One Q.
One (accurate, succinct, opinion-free) answer.
Go!
lol
(This arises from my stance that if you are given a PD altitude and immediately start on down, you do not have to repeat the altitude to center, and then call back one second later to say ‘vacating’.)
 
Legally, yes. More important in a nonradar environment of course. But, if you’re under radar contact the controller can see your altitude readout when you start a descent. Most controllers could give a flip, I didn’t when I did the job. Doesn’t hurt to inform ATC though either, as a courtesy.

AIM is the reference you seek however.
 
From the AIM

5−3−3. Additional Reports

a. The following reports should be made to ATC or FSS facilities without a specific ATC request:

1. At all times.

(a) When vacating any previously assigned altitude or flight level for a newly assigned altitude or flight level.
 
Of course, it's the AIM not the FAR and it says "should" not "shall" so have at it... :D
 
I tell my wife we are going down.... does that count? VFR, don’t have to tell anyone nuthin. Your question is vague and incomplete for a serious answer tho..... jes sayin’
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Does anyone have the official, regulatory, indisputable reference telling pilots when it is mandatory to report vacating an altitude?
Click to expand...


^^^^^^
Just to reinforce, I am looking for a written reference of a mandatory report of vacating.
Thank you.
 
Here, maybe an audio example will help.

Which is correct, A or B? No "alternate options" for this exercise, this is how it played out.

A:
(N1234 is at FL250)
0:00 "N1234, Houston Center, descend pilot's discretion to flight level 190"
0:05 "PeeDee down to 190, N1234"
0:08 (Cap of N1234 pushes over/yanks throttles, begins descent.)
0:11 (N1234 is at FL247 and alt is unwinding)

B:
(N1234 is at FL250)
0:00 "N1234, Houston Center, descend pilot's discretion to flight level 190"
0:05 "PeeDee down to 190; N1234"
0:08 (Cap of N1234 pushes over/yanks throttles, begins descent.)
0:09 "Houston Center, N1234 vacating 250."
0:11 (N1234 is at FL247 and alt is unwinding)
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Does anyone have the official, regulatory, indisputable reference telling pilots when it is mandatory to report vacating an altitude?
Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to make this a two-post thread.
One Q.
One (accurate, succinct, opinion-free) answer.
Go!
lol
(This arises from my stance that if you are given a PD altitude and immediately start on down, you do not have to repeat the altitude to center, and then call back one second later to say ‘vacating’.)
Click to expand...

(So don’t. Do it in one transmission.)
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Here, maybe an audio example will help.

Which is correct, A or B? No "alternate options" for this exercise, this is how it played out.

A:
(N1234 is at FL250)
0:00 "N1234, Houston Center, descend pilot's discretion to flight level 190"
0:05 "PeeDee down to 190, N1234"
0:08 (Cap of N1234 pushes over/yanks throttles, begins descent.)
0:11 (N1234 is at FL247 and alt is unwinding)

B:
(N1234 is at FL250)
0:00 "N1234, Houston Center, descend pilot's discretion to flight level 190"
0:05 "PeeDee down to 190; N1234"
0:08 (Cap of N1234 pushes over/yanks throttles, begins descent.)
0:09 "Houston Center, N1234 vacating 250."
0:11 (N1234 is at FL247 and alt is unwinding)
Click to expand...


Neither is correct. PeeDee is not an approved verbiage for readback.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Here, maybe an audio example will help.

Which is correct, A or B? No "alternate options" for this exercise, this is how it played out.

A:
(N1234 is at FL250)
0:00 "N1234, Houston Center, descend pilot's discretion to flight level 190"
0:05 "PeeDee down to 190, N1234"
0:08 (Cap of N1234 pushes over/yanks throttles, begins descent.)
0:11 (N1234 is at FL247 and alt is unwinding)

B:
(N1234 is at FL250)
0:00 "N1234, Houston Center, descend pilot's discretion to flight level 190"
0:05 "PeeDee down to 190; N1234"
0:08 (Cap of N1234 pushes over/yanks throttles, begins descent.)
0:09 "Houston Center, N1234 vacating 250."
0:11 (N1234 is at FL247 and alt is unwinding)
Click to expand...

Define “correct.” I’m gonna go with recommended stuff from the AIM. It wants ya to say when yer leaving a previously assigned altitude. And I’m gonna set aside exact phraseology details such as PeeDee and should ya say vacating, leaving or out of. That being said, A Is incorrect because there was no vacating report. B had the vacating report. I like C, “outta 250, PD to 190.” Get it done in one transmission. Or, if you have no intent of leveling off at interim altitudes, then just say “leaving 250 for 190”
 
Last edited:
Let'sgoflying! said:
Here, maybe an audio example will help.

Which is correct, A or B? No "alternate options" for this exercise, this is how it played out.

A:
(N1234 is at FL250)
0:00 "N1234, Houston Center, descend pilot's discretion to flight level 190"
0:05 "PeeDee down to 190, N1234"
0:08 (Cap of N1234 pushes over/yanks throttles, begins descent.)
0:11 (N1234 is at FL247 and alt is unwinding)

B:
(N1234 is at FL250)
0:00 "N1234, Houston Center, descend pilot's discretion to flight level 190"
0:05 "PeeDee down to 190; N1234"
0:08 (Cap of N1234 pushes over/yanks throttles, begins descent.)
0:09 "Houston Center, N1234 vacating 250."
0:11 (N1234 is at FL247 and alt is unwinding)
Click to expand...
Neither. A is an incorrect read back. B also has an incorrect read back with non regulatory transmissions. However B is closer to the suggested best practice of the AIM.

Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk
 
I just fly VFR and descend at my own dang discretion. :)
 
jkaduk said:
While transiting LAX class B? I would think not. Maybe you always go over or around. :)
Click to expand...

No real reason for me to fly through LAX Class B, and when I went to Hawthorne a few months ago I just stayed under the shelf. For shorter flights (45 minutes or so) I'm typically going to San Diego, Camarillo or Mojave if I decide to venture out of the L.A./Inland Empire area. Many paths through this rat maze where you don't have to talk to ATC.
 
depends. if im in someones airspace i ask. if im ifr yes duh. if im using flight following and the radios are quiet and im not near any busy airports ill change altitude without asking. if im using flight following and the radio traffic is high i will ask. 9/10 i hear "altitude your discretion"
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
No real reason for me to fly through LAX Class B, and when I went to Hawthorne a few months ago I just stayed under the shelf. For shorter flights (45 minutes or so) I'm typically going to San Diego, Camarillo or Mojave if I decide to venture out of the L.A./Inland Empire area. Many paths through this rat maze where you don't have to talk to ATC.
Click to expand...
While all of that is legal, I'm not sure it's the safest strategy. You should get a tour of SoCal Tracon. You'll learn that they prefer talking to you.
 
IFR or VFR? What kind of airspace? Have you been assigned an altitude and how so?

I don’t think it’s a simple straightforward thing, the answer really is it depends.
 
alfadog said:
Damn, POA fails its mission AGAIN!
Click to expand...

Not really (except in the restriction of the number of replies)

not really a fail, because no one did have a reference for what was asked in the original post, that reference being for mandatory reporting, in this case. No reference; one must not exist.
 
At times I factor in how busy the frequency is. If it’s busy & more important stuff is going on, I may not call leaving, or do it later.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Not really (except in the restriction of the number of replies)

not really a fail, because no one did have a reference for what was asked in the original post, that reference being for mandatory reporting, in this case. No reference; one must not exist.
Click to expand...

You are a generous man :)
 
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