Tesla Model 3 - Now I get the hype.

Cute. I usually drive my Tesla for about 5000 miles and four to five months without visiting a charger.

Out-of-context range comparisons between ICE's and EV's are not useful. You have to compare the entire experience taken over the course of a year or two.

Well, this was in particular reference to planned power outages in California, so it is relevant. But that wasn't apparent from the individual post only following the ongoing saga...
 
In the context of power outages, if there's a power outage where I live, my options to charge the car would be:

1) Natural gas (home backup generator)
2) Gasoline (generator on my RV)
3) Propane (generator on my camper)
4) Diesel (truck's PTO generator)
5) Solar + Lithium (offroad package on my camper)
6) Lead Acid batteries - In a pinch I can pull enough juice out of a combination of my server UPS and Golf Cart batteries to get me to 4 Tesla SuperChargers.

Back of the napkin tells me that most of the times I have about 2000 miles worth of stored energy at home. That's ignoring NG and Solar and using the Truck for like, driving.

It's really easy to have redundant electricity sources if you want. With a gasoline vehicle, there are no other options.
 
With a gasoline vehicle, there are no other options.

Are you sure.?? :lol::lol:

horse-pulling-smart-car-shopped-or-not.img_assist_custom.png
 
In the context of power outages, if there's a power outage where I live, my options to charge the car would be:

1) Natural gas (home backup generator)
2) Gasoline (generator on my RV)
3) Propane (generator on my camper)
4) Diesel (truck's PTO generator)
5) Solar + Lithium (offroad package on my camper)
6) Lead Acid batteries - In a pinch I can pull enough juice out of a combination of my server UPS and Golf Cart batteries to get me to 4 Tesla SuperChargers.

Back of the napkin tells me that most of the times I have about 2000 miles worth of stored energy at home. That's ignoring NG and Solar and using the Truck for like, driving.

It's really easy to have redundant electricity sources if you want. With a gasoline vehicle, there are no other options.
A truck gives you all sorts of options. There's always a way to get to a charger:

7fe2db4618e75591df86507ae4f0df5b.jpg
 
@flyingcheesehead

My Subaru gets 450 miles per tank in the city; and that usually lasts me about four or five weeks :D
My last car was closer to 600 miles.

That is generally two to three times the range of EV cars available.

So, 450 miles per tank, call it 4 1/2 weeks, you do 100 miles a week or so. An ideal candidate for an EV, you don't even need a Tesla, just get a cheapie! :D

But, if you do like most people and wait until you're basically empty before hitting the gas station, you'll still spend the majority of your time with less range available in your car than a long-range Model 3 that's set to 80% (260 miles).
 
So, 450 miles per tank, call it 4 1/2 weeks, you do 100 miles a week or so. An ideal candidate for an EV, you don't even need a Tesla, just get a cheapie! :D

But, if you do like most people and wait until you're basically empty before hitting the gas station, you'll still spend the majority of your time with less range available in your car than a long-range Model 3 that's set to 80% (260 miles).
It really varies for me. I pass the cheap gas station once a week on my trip into downtown Boston (15 miles one way, normally takes 45 minutes to an hour, Boston traffic sucks).
If the tank is down to a half or more and traffic has been good, I stop and fill. Otherwise if traffic sucks I wait until near empty.

As for EV, my next car yes. My Subaru will go to my youngest in a couple years, and then I will get one. My wife and I are discussing going to a single car since I work from home, regardless the next car for us will be an EV.

Tim

Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk
 
Amid greatly reduced demand for its aging Model S and Model X vehicles, the deteriorating relationship between Tesla and Panasonic raises existential issues for the partnership and larger concern for Tesla's ability to defend itself against the threat of greatly increased production of fresh and more attractive versions of EVs from other manufacturers, particularly in the SUV segment currently dominating the market.

Five years after committing to invest billions of dollars in a shared battery factory in the Nevada desert, Panasonic has a strained relationship with the electric-car pioneer. The Gigafactory was supposed to boost profits, cement Panasonic’s future in automotive electronics and give Tesla easy access to the most important—and expensive—component of its vehicles.

Instead, the partnership has exposed a culture clash between the conservative, century-old Japanese conglomerate accustomed to consensus and the 16-year-old Silicon Valley upstart built around Mr. Musk’s vision for upending 100 years of automotive tradition.

Their shared business is causing headaches. The bosses of both companies are pointing fingers at each other over the handling of battery production. And Mr. Musk’s behavior has rattled Panasonic’s top brass, to the extent that some remain worried about tying their company’s fortunes too closely to Mr. Musk and his Silicon Valley car company.

Mr. Musk has pushed Panasonic to cut what it charges for the battery cells as Tesla builds another costly factory in China. Panasonic Chief Executive Kazuhiro Tsuga has resisted the pricing requests, and says he is hesitant to go into China with Tesla. Production has fallen behind schedule, and the race to catch up has thrown the Panasonic battery unit deeper into the red.

At this year’s annual meeting in June, shareholders criticized Panasonic for getting in over its head. Hurt by the Tesla problems, Panasonic has seen its stock fall nearly 50% since the start of last year.

Mr. Tsuga, 62 years old, a traditionally reserved Japanese executive, speaks less sanguinely about the partnership than he once had. Asked in September whether he has had regrets about investing in the Gigafactory, he told reporters, “Yes, of course.” At the time he made the decision, he said, “that was the only rational option to supply batteries to Tesla.”

The tension with Tesla thrusts the Panasonic CEO into the uncomfortable position of trying to make the huge investment with Tesla work while he faces a growing faction of executives unhappy with the Gigafactory. Other Panasonic executives say they have no future with Tesla.


The article exposes the years of demands placed on Panasonic by Musk's unrealistic and unmet production goals. Time and again, Panasonic spent millions of dollars and increased staff to meet the pie-in-the-sky projections made by Musk, only to find the money and efforts were wasted, as Tesla never came close to fulfilling its CEO's bluster (see the graphic in the linked article).

Panasonic Chief Executive Kazuhiro Tsuga, an early champion of the relationship between his firm and Tesla, is nearing retirement age, and he is increasingly seen as the lone supporter in the executive suite for continuing the marriage between the two companies.

Mounting cracks in Tesla's future include the intent of other manufacturers worldwide to commit more resources and factory capacity to production of EVs now rather than later, a worsening economy in China, and carefully hidden problems (note the obviously staged Potemkin village photo in The Drive article) with the new Shanghai factory, which will prevent any meaningful production until after the second quarter of 2020. The China market, seen as Tesla's salvation, may prove to be its Calvary.

The latter situation is of particular concern with analysts and holders of Tesla debt, as its $566 million tranche of Solar City Convertible Senior Notes is due November 1st. Most of Tesla's recent acquisition of $2.4 billion from a debt and equity deal in May has been consumed by the $704 million 1Q and $507 million 2Q losses, and retiring the Solar City debt will finish it off.

I assume that rather than examining the very real issues raised in the linked Wall Street Journal and The Drive articles and considering their significance, POA's Tesla defenders will dismiss the situation, and criticize me for posting deleterious information about the company, as has been the previous norm.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-...lash-threatens-their-relationship-11570550526

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/29929...-start-making-cars-in-earnest-listen-to-ms-li
 
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It appears the lure of a significant reduction in one's income tax liability is proving irresistible for those aware of the generous handouts the government has been providing to the electric vehicle industry for almost thirty years.

As tax credits for Tesla and GM electric vehicles move closer to elimination, the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration (Tigta) has revealed that millions of dollars in EV tax credits have been improperly claimed, totaling almost $74 million between 2014 and 2018.

While Tesla and other manufacturers are intensely lobbying for extension and expansion of the tax credits, which have been proven to be a notable factor in the purchasing decisions of surveyed EV owners, government data reveals that 80% of the subsidies benefit the 29.2% of American households earning over $100,000 annually.

Extending and increasing the generous tax credits that comparatively wealthy purchasers enjoy is a dirty little secret that EV proponents like to keep hidden away from scrutiny.

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/the-electric-vehicle-subsidy-racket-11570834263

It's long past the time for these giveaways to end, particularly since data shows those that benefit from the tax credits don't need a taxpayer financed freebie when buying their vehicles that have an average purchase price over $55,000.

Data analyzed by research house Cox Automotive show EV prices dropped from $64,300 to $55,600, a 13.4% decline over the previous year.

https://qz.com/1695602/the-average-electric-vehicle-is-getting-cheaper-in-the-us/amp/
 
I assume that rather than examining the very real issues raised in the linked Wall Street Journal and The Drive articles and considering their significance, POA's Tesla defenders will dismiss the situation, and criticize me for posting deleterious information about the company, as has been the previous norm.
I plan to do just that. As soon as I get a little bit more data. I am thinking that I will have that data in about 5 to 10 years.

I don't know if Tesla will be the surviving EV company, but I would put money on the fact that EVs will be the survivors and ICE cars will go the way of the manual transmission and that Tesla will have been one of the main drivers of that shift.
 
...government data reveals that 80% of the subsidies benefit the 29.2% of American households earning over $100,000 annually.

How dare those evil people who actually pay the vast majority of income tax actually see something back for a change. :rolleyes: If only we could be funneling yet more money to those who just take take take from the system without giving anything back.
 
How dare those evil people who actually pay the vast majority of income tax actually see something back for a change. :rolleyes: If only we could be funneling yet more money to those who just take take take from the system without giving anything back.

I'm one of "those" people, but I don't think we should be getting tax credits for discretionary spending. In fact I *haven't* taken tax credits when I was eligible because I didn't think it was right.
 
I'm one of "those" people, but I don't think we should be getting tax credits for discretionary spending. In fact I *haven't* taken tax credits when I was eligible because I didn't think it was right.

Good for you, that's your choice. No need to impose it on everybody else.

Do you think the government used the money you didn't claim in a more efficient and worthwhile manner than if you'd taken it, and donated it to a carefully selected charity?
 
Good for you, that's your choice. No need to impose it on everybody else.

Do you think the government used the money you didn't claim in a more efficient and worthwhile manner than if you'd taken it, and donated it to a carefully selected charity?

Yeah EdFred, Don't expect others to have your moral character ;)
 
Good for you, that's your choice. No need to impose it on everybody else.

Do you think the government used the money you didn't claim in a more efficient and worthwhile manner than if you'd taken it, and donated it to a carefully selected charity?

Charity?!?! I'd have used it on hookers and blow!
 
It appears the lure of a significant reduction in one's income tax liability is proving irresistible for those aware of the generous handouts the government has been providing to the electric vehicle industry for almost thirty years.

Thirty years? There hasn't really been much of an EV industry for anywhere near that long. If those credits were passed 30 years ago, it was intended to spur development, and I would say it's had the desired effect.

As tax credits for Tesla and GM electric vehicles move closer to elimination, the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration (Tigta) has revealed that millions of dollars in EV tax credits have been improperly claimed, totaling almost $74 million between 2014 and 2018.

Interesting... But not the fault of anyone but the people who are doing it. Nothing to do with Tesla or any other manufacturer.

It's long past the time for these giveaways to end, particularly since data shows those that benefit from the tax credits don't need a taxpayer financed freebie when buying their vehicles that have an average purchase price over $55,000.

Data analyzed by research house Cox Automotive show EV prices dropped from $64,300 to $55,600, a 13.4% decline over the previous year.

And that data shows that it is, in fact, time for the EV credit to end. For everyone. It has done its job. Now, it merely serves to penalize those companies (mainly GM, Tesla, and Nissan) who actually made an investment in EVs early on, and favors those companies that have done nothing but drag their feet (I'm looking at you, Toyota).

And while we're at it, we should end subsidies for oil companies too...
 
And while we're at it, we should end subsidies for oil companies too...

Yeah, we could do that. See how well that goes over with constituents when they can't afford gas to get to the low end jobs, and jacks up shipping costs, and...

I don't think there should be any gov't subsidies for products. But cutting them cold turkey doesn't really do anyone any favors when their COL just jumped.
 
Yeah, we could do that. See how well that goes over with constituents when they can't afford gas to get to the low end jobs, and jacks up shipping costs, and...

I don't think there should be any gov't subsidies for products. But cutting them cold turkey doesn't really do anyone any favors when their COL just jumped.

Problem generally with phase out is politicians do not have the courage to continue it.

Tim
 
Problem generally with phase out is politicians do not have the courage to continue it.

Tim

Can't implement a phase out when you have to keep trying to get re-elected.
 
And while we're at it, we should end subsidies for oil companies too...
I'm not sure if you are tongue in cheek here, and I'm not going to take my usual stance of explaining that oil companies don't receive any special subsidies. But you are sort of right, they do receive certain subsidies.

They are the same subsidies that EVERY business in America has access to; Legitimate tax deductions. If you want to remove those subsidies, then you need to do a massive re-write of the entire tax code.

But WAIT!!!! That has already been done. It is called the FAIR TAX and I support it 100%.
 
Adding to the modest cacaphony of inquirers: What are the subsidies to oil companies (NB: Tax Treatment need not apply).
 
I'm not sure if you are tongue in cheek here, and I'm not going to take my usual stance of explaining that oil companies don't receive any special subsidies. But you are sort of right, they do receive certain subsidies.

They are the same subsidies that EVERY business in America has access to; Legitimate tax deductions. If you want to remove those subsidies, then you need to do a massive re-write of the entire tax code.

But WAIT!!!! That has already been done. It is called the FAIR TAX and I support it 100%.

Fair Tax, yes!
 
I'm not sure if you are tongue in cheek here, and I'm not going to take my usual stance of explaining that oil companies don't receive any special subsidies. But you are sort of right, they do receive certain subsidies.

They are the same subsidies that EVERY business in America has access to; Legitimate tax deductions. If you want to remove those subsidies, then you need to do a massive re-write of the entire tax code.

But WAIT!!!! That has already been done. It is called the FAIR TAX and I support it 100%.

^This guy knows

Fair Tax, yes!

It's amazing how simple life would be with the Fair Tax or something very close to that plan. Eliminates the loop holes/deductions/"subsidies" for everyone and reduces the income tax law to just a few pages.
 
Adding to the modest cacaphony of inquirers: What are the subsidies to oil companies (NB: Tax Treatment need not apply).

Not sure why 'Tax Treatment need not apply'. The EV subsidy is also tax treatment. Anyway... here goes:

Intangible Drilling Costs: Not available to other business owners. If it was, you could build a factory, write off most of the cost of construction in the first year, then only classify the loading docks as capital assets.

Royalty Payment Reductions on Federal Lands: Federal land royalties for oil extraction is nowhere near market value. E.g. in Texas if you drill on state land, the royalty is 25%. If you drill on federal land it's 12.5%. If you drill in federal land offshore, it's 0%. This is public land, belonging to all of us. In a free market economy you should pay exactly $1 less than the point in which you would pack up your bags and go somewhere else. That's not the case when the nearest neighbor charges twice as much.

Depletion deduction: You can get both depreciation on the equipment (fine - available to all business owners), as well as depletion of the resource (not available generally).


These 3 are coincidentally about the same as the combined EV subsidy over the last decade (about $3 per taxpayer/year). Yes I realize it's split over a MUCH larger consumer base, but the EV subsidy is designed to end, unlike these.

The biggest one of course is cost of defense. Please let's not debate (and get the thread closed) whether we spend too much or too little on military, or whether or not there would have been an Iraq war if not for oil. Instead I'm just going to say that EV manufacturers face big risk and fluctuations in the price of Cobalt due to political instability in the Congo. If the Congo owned 60% of the oil production in the world instead of 60% of the Cobalt production, I'm pretty sure the U.S. flag would have been run up their flagpoles decades ago.


Fair Tax, yes!

I also like Fair Tax. I personally think VAT works better than RST (enforcement is much easier with VAT than RST), but that's minor. The Fair Tax Prebate effectively is a UBI. That makes it the best shot that any tax overall plan has of getting bipartisan support.
 
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Not sure why 'Tax Treatment need not apply'. The EV subsidy is also tax treatment. Anyway... here goes:

Intangible Drilling Costs: Not available to other business owners. If it was, you could build a factory, write off most of the cost of construction in the first year, then only classify the loading docks as capital assets.

Royalty Payment Reductions on Federal Lands: Federal land royalties for oil extraction is nowhere near market value. E.g. in Texas if you drill on state land, the royalty is 25%. If you drill on federal land it's 12.5%. If you drill in federal land offshore, it's 0%. This is public land, belonging to all of us. In a free market economy you should pay exactly $1 less than the point in which you would pack up your bags and go somewhere else. That's not the case when the nearest neighbor charges twice as much.

Depletion deduction: You can get both depreciation on the equipment (fine - available to all business owners), as well as depletion of the resource (not available generally).

These 3 are coincidentally about the same as the combined EV subsidy over the last decade (about $3 per taxpayer/year). Yes I realize it's split over a MUCH larger consumer base, but the EV subsidy is designed to end, unlike these.

The biggest one of course is cost of defense. Please let's not debate (and get the thread closed) whether we spend too much or too little on military, or whether or not there would have been an Iraq war if not for oil. Instead I'm just going to say that EV manufacturers face big risk and fluctuations in the price of Cobalt due to political instability in the Congo. If the Congo owned 60% of the oil production in the world instead of 60% of the Cobalt production, I'm pretty sure the U.S. flag would have been run up their flagpoles decades ago.

Point made. None of those are subsidies. They may all be bad policy, and they may confer some financial benefit, but they are not subsidies - the oil companies don't get checks written to them.

Of course, lots of industries get special tax treatment but, again, not direct subsidies.

The worst part of mischaracterizing tax treatments as "subsidies" is that to do so inherently embraces the notion that money earned by people or businesses is actually the government's money, and that the government can choose to dole out favors by allowing the taxpayer to keep more of the government's money. It's insidious, and it's wrong.

I also like Fair Tax. I personally think VAT works better than RST (enforcement is much easier with VAT than RST), but that's minor. The Fair Tax Prebate effectively is a UBI. That makes it the best shot that any tax overall plan has of getting bipartisan support.

A vastly simpler tax code - a more honest tax code - would be a grand thing. So would a vastly less-consumptive government, limited to only the things that it should be doing. But all that's a conversation for another day and, more importantly, another venue, lest is "Spin" out of control.
 
Not sure why 'Tax Treatment need not apply'. The EV subsidy is also tax treatment. Anyway... here goes:

Intangible Drilling Costs: Not available to other business owners. If it was, you could build a factory, write off most of the cost of construction in the first year, then only classify the loading docks as capital assets.

Those tax treatments are available to all "extraction mining" industries, not just oil and gas. It just happens that O&G is the industry which benefits the most from it. Mining companies can do the same, but there aren't a huge volume of new mines being opened up. Obviously, I'm fine with closing the loop hole since the law was originally to help combat the high failure rates of finding a successful well/mine. Technology has improved over time so that hitting a dry well or a mine with poor reserves is relatively small. However, my main point is that this isn't an O&G-only tax benefit, it's available to all extraction mining companies. I

Royalty Payment Reductions on Federal Lands: Federal land royalties for oil extraction is nowhere near market value. E.g. in Texas if you drill on state land, the royalty is 25%. If you drill on federal land it's 12.5%. If you drill in federal land offshore, it's 0%. This is public land, belonging to all of us. In a free market economy you should pay exactly $1 less than the point in which you would pack up your bags and go somewhere else. That's not the case when the nearest neighbor charges twice as much.

Not in disagreement here, but the board that controls royalty rates also sets rates for other mining/extraction industries. O&G is subjected to whatever % the board wants to set (which I'm sure they lobby plenty to set at the minimum). It's kind of a tough row to hoe, so-to-speak. If you raise royalties, then O&G (or other extraction mining industries) will simply not drill on Federal land or anywhere that has higher costs to produce. The only unique thing about offshore drilling in general, is that it is extremely high-cost/expensive to do E&P operations. Offshore drilling and E&P in general has taken a nosedive over the past few years, so if the federal government is looking to fill their coffers with royalty revenues, they need to provide some sort of relief in tax treatment to do that. If the government isn't always clamoring for more tax dollars, then they could leave the royalties high and wait for the market to come back to the point where E&P companies are willing to eat the higher royalty costs. Onshore shale oil on is easier/cheaper to procure and produce from at this point in time, especially with crude hovering around $50/bbl.

Depletion deduction: You can get both depreciation on the equipment (fine - available to all business owners), as well as depletion of the resource (not available generally).

Same as the first point. It's available in the industries whose product is a "deplete-able resource", so as you said (not available generally), but still not an O&G-specific tax treatment.
 
My moms friend, her daughter (uncles cat nephews cousin...:D) bought a used Tesla a few months ago. And of course last week she was hit from behind by someone texting. And that driver had an outstanding warrant, failure to appear for a DUI charge, driving on a suspended license and failed the field sobriety test at the accident scene. Unbelievably, the car that the driver was in has insurance.

How long until the car will be fixed.?? The car is based in Tennessee.

Depends on where in TN, but in the Nashville area it took about a 1/2 day to repair my Model 3 after being rear-ended. I was fortunate enough to only need the bumper fascia replaced which the Tesla service center got pre-painted from the factory. I think it was just a matter of detaching/attaching the fascia to the car and 3-5 sensors.
 
Point made. None of those are subsidies. They may all be bad policy, and they may confer some financial benefit, but they are not subsidies - the oil companies don't get checks written to them.

Of course, lots of industries get special tax treatment but, again, not direct subsidies.

The worst part of mischaracterizing tax treatments as "subsidies" is that to do so inherently embraces the notion that money earned by people or businesses is actually the government's money, and that the government can choose to dole out favors by allowing the taxpayer to keep more of the government's money. It's insidious, and it's wrong.

Great! I agree wholeheartedly. There is no "EV subsidy", only an "EV tax treatment!" And the EV companies aren't getting checks written to them either.

You can't call it a "subsidy" on EVs and a "tax treatment" on oil. If it's a subsidy for EVs, it's a subsidy for oil. If it's a tax treatment for oil, then it's a tax treatment for EVs.

In either case... I would happily support getting rid of them all.
 
Even if you do consider tax deductions a form of subsidy for the Oil & Gas industry, which I don't, it could still be justified. Oil and gas is used a global weapon. Those that have plenty of it, and use it have sway over countries that don't. WWII was predominately a result of an oil embargo on Japan. Oil and Gas is a strong part of our national security. Prior to the resurgence of the oil and gas industry in our country we were sending BILLIONS & BILLIONS of dollars to the very countries that were waging war against us.

So I day subsidize them even more. Just make sure that one condition of the subsidy is that they keep 100ll flowing and cheap!
 
Even if you do consider tax deductions a form of subsidy for the Oil & Gas industry, which I don't, it could still be justified. Oil and gas is used a global weapon. Those that have plenty of it, and use it have sway over countries that don't. WWII was predominately a result of an oil embargo on Japan. Oil and Gas is a strong part of our national security. Prior to the resurgence of the oil and gas industry in our country we were sending BILLIONS & BILLIONS of dollars to the very countries that were waging war against us.

So I day subsidize them even more. Just make sure that one condition of the subsidy is that they keep 100ll flowing and cheap!

Actually for national security reasons; as a country we are better served by subsidizing the exports and taxing domestic consumption.
If we subsidize the exports; we can effectively use oil as a diplomatic and economic weapon.
If we tax domestic consumption, we make more available for export, and reduce our own economic vulnerability to oil price fluctuation and demand.

Tim
 
Actually for national security reasons; as a country we are better served by subsidizing the exports and taxing domestic consumption.
If we subsidize the exports; we can effectively use oil as a diplomatic and economic weapon.
If we tax domestic consumption, we make more available for export, and reduce our own economic vulnerability to oil price fluctuation and demand.

Tim
That's a good idea,
except for the taxing the domestic consumption part, past what is needed for highway maintenance. And even that may need to change as more EVs don't pay fuel tax.
 
That's a good idea,
except for the taxing the domestic consumption part, past what is needed for highway maintenance. And even that may need to change as more EVs don't pay fuel tax.

States have already started taxing EVs to make up for the "lost" fuel taxes. Some states are charging more for the EVs than the average driver would pay in gas taxes. So, there's a bit of an uproar over that.
 
States have already started taxing EVs to make up for the "lost" fuel taxes. Some states are charging more for the EVs than the average driver would pay in gas taxes. So, there's a bit of an uproar over that.
Charge taxes when new tires are purchased or when registration is completed to charge by the mile (vehicle weight class factored). Take taxes off of fuel altogether. Now you've linked the tax directly to the road maintenance/infrastructure. However, big gov doesn't like not having an ambiguous pot of money to pull from.
 
Charge taxes when new tires are purchased or when registration is completed to charge by the mile (vehicle weight class factored). Take taxes off of fuel altogether. Now you've linked the tax directly to the road maintenance/infrastructure. However, big gov doesn't like not having an ambiguous pot of money to pull from.
I was going to post something very similar.
 
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